Brush installation

Use the spring on top of the motor cover to align with the groove to hold them in place.

Thanks Freight Train!

This is what I do when I replace the brushes.   There is a little brass tab that holds the spring in place, I bend it up a bit to swing the spring out of the way.  Clean out the brush tube after removing old brush, insert new brush with slot facing up, (later brushes did not have the slot.  Now wiggle the long part of the spring from out under the brass tab.  Holding the long end down with your finger, bend the short end back up, to increase tension on the old spring.  Heat is what weakens the springs.  Now coax long end of spring under the tab and then the short end.   I have had great success with doing this, this should be done on both sides of the motor so it will have equal brush tenshion.   All done, should take about 10 minutes...

Marty

Thanks Marty...now I realize why I'm having problems.  The springs are missing!  Either they flew across my basement when I was fiddling with the thing or one was missing.  Will the motor run with only one brush contacting the communicator?  My engine was so weak I thought perhaps it only had one functioning brush.

Would you mind taking a picture of a brush with the retaining spring in place?   I really need that as a reference tool, thanks.

PS:  A close up would be ideal

The motor would not run with either one brush contacting the commutator (armature) or missing springs.
The springs cannot fly away. They are trapped by the brush holder. 
They are not all that easy to remove. One has to unsolder the wire leads and bend a couple of things on the brush holder to remove them.
Perhaps you are looking for coil springs, which were used on many older Lionel motors. (Some motors continued to use them right into the modern era)
I am not certain of the proper name for that type of  springs.... hairpin?

Here is what I do:
I hold the brush plate upside down, and place the brushes in the brush wells.
Then I lower the motor onto the brush plate.
As soon as the commutator is in contact with the brushes, the assembly can be turned upright.

This works for me most times.
Once in a while I do it Marty's way.

The slots should face away from the commutator plate.
The brush springs rest in the grooves.

So.... if the motor ran at all, both springs and both brushes were there.
It is not uncommon for one or both brushes to fall out and roll away as you remove the brush plate.

Thanks C.W., I will try your method and let everyone know if I am able to get the engine running again

This may help:

https://ogrforum.com/...stwar-lionel-brushes

Good luck!

Mitch

Thanks Mr. Marmel.  It may seem like a simple thing but with a vision impairment, it's sometimes difficult to see and understand what others may regard as obvious so today as I looked at the motor brush plate and manipulated it, I finally understood how the spring goes in the slot on top of the brush to hold it in place.  I looked at it near a window using the sunlight to finally see the very thin springs that had bee invisible to me until now.

Thanks to all for your patience and understanding as I learn about Lionel trains.  The final step (drum roll) as C.W. recommended, is to line up the pegs and the motor holding the assembly upside down. 

My pleasure!  Glad I could be of help.

Mitch

Yes, that photo is excellent since it clearly shows the springs lined up in the grooves, thanks again

Again, my pleasure!  Keep us posted on your progress!

Mitch

I put the brush plate on, put it on the track and nothing, dead as a doornail.  I investigated and found a yellow wire and two black wires (or maybe it's the same wire broken in half) disconnected from somewhere.  I was afraid this would happen since these wires are so old as are the solder joints.

I won't be able to fix this myself because of my vision so I will send it to a specialist for repairs.

windhund42 posted:

I put the brush plate on, put it on the track and nothing, dead as a doornail.  I investigated and found a yellow wire and two black wires (or maybe it's the same wire broken in half) disconnected from somewhere.  I was afraid this would happen since these wires are so old as are the solder joints.

I won't be able to fix this myself because of my vision so I will send it to a specialist for repairs.

Those are probably actually green and blue wires going to the brush holders.   On the off chance you'd like to have a go at it:

Otherwise, I agree that letting a pro handle it may be the best course of action.    I see from your profile that you're in NY State.   You may wish to consult Jeff Kane at http://ttender.com if you're not sure who can handle this in your area.

Good luck and keep us posted! 

Mitch

Thanks Mitch for the suggestion but these wires a definitely yellow and black.  I think one or both were connected to the E unit.   Jeff Kane is about 70 miles from where I live and he recommended Train Tender Jim in Indiana.   I already sent a 2026 locomotive to him based on Jeff's recommendation and now the 2023 is boxed up waiting to go to the post office

  Righto! 

Mitch

  Following wires by color is common, but isnt always sure fire. I confirm connection points at one end at least. 

I relase the spring and "quick cap" them mostly. I dont rebend my spring retainers closed, and I bend them down vs up when I can. They will evetually snap if repaeted often. Bent down makes digging the spring out harder but also negates a real need to rebend the tab closed as the tab forms a light hook for the spring to lock into.

Slot vs no slot. Is a physics/cleanliness/wear agrument about brushes spinning in place, allowing crap to escape being trapped better, and the wearing being more even in those with no slot.

The no slot theory seems pretty sound to me.

The slotted brush, locked in place, riding IN the arm.plate grooves vs a flat bush rubbing ontop of groove apexes, (the slotted) wins via more contact area....but a plain brush may have never gotten dirty enough for any grooves to form.  Pepsi or Coke?

In cases like this, I defer to the Lionel engineers back in the mists of antiquity who came up with slotted brushes in the first place. 

Interesting comments about "slot or no slot".    I can tell you when I pulled the brush plate off on my engine that the slotted side was down.   I thought it was a mistake but now I see that it was a matter of preference.

I thought it was a mistake but now I see that it was a matter of preference.

I'll stay with Lionel's design too.
If there is a reference to support the idea that it's good for a brush to be free rotate, I'd like to read about it.

Agreed

I took this picture of the commutator and thought I would share it with the board members.  It looks pretty good to me but what do I know.  

The surfaces are nice and shiny, but you need to clean the crud out from between the segments, as they can cause short circuits and poor performance. 

Mitch

Thanks for the tip Mitch.  I will ask my service guy Train Tender Jim to take care of that since I'm mailing the engine to him today.

Good to hear it will be eventually fixed and up and running again.

Little tip i learned long time ago when putting brushes back in is to use a straightened out paper clip on one end bend a very small hook.With brushplate cover secured gently lift spring upwards with hooked end and install the brushes.

Have done this so many times with our many postwar engines and it makes installing the brushes so much easier.

Dieseler posted:

Good to hear it will be eventually fixed and up and running again.

Little tip i learned long time ago when putting brushes back in is to use a straightened out paper clip on one end bend a very small hook.With brushplate cover secured gently lift spring upwards with hooked end and install the brushes.

Have done this so many times with our many postwar engines and it makes installing the brushes so much easier.

Hum!  That hadn't occurred to me.  Good idea!  Will have to try it.

Mitch