@prrhorseshoecurve posted:other option is get the Lionel E8 fuel tank which has the speaker cut out and speaker mount in it. Lionel parts is all A la Carte!
Agreed, but at least in most cases they give you a full a la carte menu - even if many parts are unavailable! I also agree getting the parts you mention, although based on my past experience fitting in speakers is a matter of trial and error.
@bob2 posted:It looks like an Adams & Son nose.
When you get ready to solder the sides, remember that this is a two piece nose, and if you get it hot enough it will slip. Run a bolt through the cab windows and snug it up. Wrap a damp rag around the nose. Heat only the casting; never the thin sides, when attaching thin stuff to heavy brass. And always clamp everything.
Holy Cow @bob2 I did not know the nose casting could slip apart if it gets too hot. THANK YOU! That's is a real important piece of information going forward!
Soldering these kits is not difficult with knowledge. CLW used to offer a service - jig-soldering the cast nose onto the sheet sides, because so many found it daunting.
I find LocoWorks kits daunting, but the actual soldering process is the same.
Get all joints clean and shiny. Clamp all pieces to be soldered securely - I use the truck mounting brass bars to hold things, with brass 2-56 FH screws part of the assembly. After soldering the screw heads are filed and sanded flush with the sides.
I use giant C clamps front and back; special threaded spacer blocks to hold sides parallel and hold the roof securely, and use window openings when possible for the screws that go into the spacer blocks. My roofs are always bronze castings, so plugging small threaded holes is trivial.
And most important of all, when heating never let the flame actually touch sheet metal, unless it is truly momentary. You can easily anneal or warp sheet metal with a torch. Once toasty warm, an 80 Watt soldering iron will run a beautiful sheet metal-to-sheet metal seam. Sheet metal-to-casting seams are always done with torch flame on the casting only. The casting will heat the sheet metal.
Update Feb 18th
The next sentence (still under suggestion 2) read: A piece of 1/8” square brass may be used to shim the shell to the nose.
Small problem. 1/8” brass squares are not included with this kit. Didn’t that original 1970’s magazine advertisement for this locomotive kit say it came “basically complete”? To move forward with this building adventure I needed to hunt down and purchase K&S Precision metals part #8151, 1/8” x 12” square brass. In the photo below you can see the empty area in the nose casting were the 1/8” square brass needs to go.
Once the 1/8” square brass arrived I found it was still .02” short from making a flush fit with the sides of the nose casting. To make these 1/8” square fit correctly I also needed .01” thick x 1/8” wide strips of flat brass and placed them under the K&S square brass.
Here’s a look at the 1/8” square brass adjusted outward. Now this section matches the width of the nose casting and shell after using the two .01” flat brass strips underneath.
It’s slow going but forward progress is being made. Stay tuned for the next update.
You're a perfectionist. It's a curse! 😖
Where are you getting .010 brass? I swear I have a large sheet (four feet!) of it, but cannot find it. And K&S stopped sticking it in those little expensive packages.
The nose was apparently designed for the "Exacta" cast sides, which dovetail in there nicely. I don't remember such nice rivet detail on the Exacta models, but it is possible the nose was a later Adams casting for the F3/F7, which did have cast sides with rivet detail. Some of these are showing up on eBay, as part of Steve Neill's collection.
holding those sides against the shims for soldering will show you the need for rigid clamping of the entire body before applying heat.
@bob2 posted:Where are you getting .010 brass? I swear I have a large sheet (four feet!) of it, but cannot find it. And K&S stopped sticking it in those little expensive packages.
The nose was apparently designed for the "Exacta" cast sides, which dovetail in there nicely. I don't remember such nice rivet detail on the Exacta models, but it is possible the nose was a later Adams casting for the F3/F7, which did have cast sides with rivet detail. Some of these are showing up on eBay, as part of Steve Neill's collection.
holding those sides against the shims for soldering will show you the need for rigid clamping of the entire body before applying heat.
I bought those .010 brass strips a few months ago at Pegasus Hobbies in Montclair, CA. Originally the brass strips where suppose to be for an ACF dome but that project ended up going a different direction.
Pegasus has a shelf in the store with several boxes of miscellaneous old brass tubes, strips, sheets and squares. It was like a swap meet, everything was loose and nothing was in packages. Pegasus recently moved to a new location last month and I have not been to their new store yet to see if they still have these boxes of old brass. I will let you know if they have .010 brass strips next time I go by.
Update Feb 20th
The next sentence (still under suggestion number 2) said: It will also be easier to attached the nose to the shell if a piece of scrap brass is cut to the shape of the back of the nose casting, soldered to the shell and then screwed to the back of the nose casting.
I have not been looking forward to this point of the build. The problem is LWS messed up the upper corner bends on the engineer’s side of the shell. I have never build a brass locomotive kit but I can tell you this square roof bend did not match either the round end cap or the round nose casting. You will need to work real hard to un-bend that shells square corner… while at the same time holding the shell in place with clamps… while at the same time securing the rear end cap to the shell with clamps… while at the same time making sure all these parts don’t fall off the bench.
I have read in other forum threads that soldering brass was like an art form, the more your practice the better you will get. That is a true statement and see lots of forum members who are absolute artists in soldering brass. I tried it… I’m not one of those guys. All during this building adventure I have been desperately practicing my solder skills on the brass fuel tank pieces that came with the kit. Even with practice my brass solder connections looked awful and just too embarrassing to post on this forum.
I’m nervous to admit it but instead of soldering I attempted using CA glue as recommend back in that Feb 1978 OSR issue. From K&S metals I purchase a 3/16” brass right angle (part #9881) that was 12” long to help with the shells assembly. This right angle brass was cut into ½” brackets, sanded and tacked on with CA glue to the locomotives rear end piece. Also, right angle brackets were sanded and placed inside the shells inside front edge where it will meet with the brass nose casting. Fail.
I quickly found out CA glue does not hold on to large structural brass components. Apparently, CA glue is only meant to hold non-structural components or very small brass details. So, I tried again, this time epoxy was used as recommended back in OSR issue #54. Fail again. I found out epoxy is too brittle for this type application and rear end cap broke off the shell with a small amount of pressure.
Okay at this point, this LWS E9 kit was either going back into its original box to live a lonely life as a 4-pound doorstop or I had to learn how to solder brass. Searching on YouTube I found a 10-minute video called “Soldering for Scale Modelers”. After watching this instructional how-to video I gave the shell another attempt using my tools.
I pulled out a soldering station my son gave me, can of Weller tip tinner, can of Weller rosin flux paste, roll of 60/40 solder and then scrubbed with sand paper and cleaned the glue off the shell’s inside walls. I followed that video’s instructions but just couldn’t get enough heat to both brass sides at the same time for my solder to flow smoothly. I realized at this point the person in that video was working with much thinner brass sheets and the tip on my solder iron was much too small for this kind of work. Sure, a couple solder globs were holding in a few places inside the shell but it looked like chewed-up bubble gum.
Next, I pulled out my old soldering gun with a flat tip and tried again. Nope, still not enough uniform heat to the shell’s brass joints. I just don’t have the right tools for this job.
Then I re-read what @bob2 said above in the post about using a flame. So, I drove down to the hardware store and purchased a micro torch and can of butane. A quick hit with the micro torch inside the brass shell and the problem was solved! Thank you @bob2 for the solid advice, you saved this project.
Guys, I’m not going to get everything right on my first brass kit but I’m trying (and sharing what not to do). I’ll continue to practice on the fuel tank with my soldering iron. It's clear now my next purchase needs to be an assortment of larger tips for the soldering iron.
Stay tuned for the next update…
@T.Albers posted:Then I re-read what @bob2 said above in the post about using a flame. So, I drove to the hardware store and purchased a micro torch and small can of butane. A quick hit with the micro torch inside the brass shell and that solved the problem! Thank you @bob2 for the solid advice, you saved this project.
The micro torch is my preferred soldering tool; rare that I use an iron or gun except for electrical bits. I migrated to the torch years ago as it just seemed "right" in my hands. You use what works for you. Practice and more practice. And, then setting up and prepping, and getting everything "just so" before soldering is key.
That roof is not salvageable. The cab casting roof is the correct contour and arch for an E series locomotive (or F, for that matter). There are several Adams roofs on eBay at the moment - capture one. Then carefully shear that wrapper (on a big shear; not with tin snips). Use only the sides.
As Martin says: " the right tool . . ."
You need a new 80 Watt iron for the little stuff, a Micro Torch for precision joints not needing a lot of heat, and a can of MAPP gas hooked to a pencil burner to heat the Adams castings.
Good to see someone else learning the same stuff I am at the moment. I just started learning how to solder with a torch for my GMC Pacific once I realized that a soldering iron was not going to cut it to heat the brass. What I've learned is that lots of flux and lots of heat is very important, if you don't have enough heat the solder won't flow correctly.
Something I'm realizing is that certain tasks seems daunting until you know how to actually do them properly, then everything begins to be much easier. Whenever I get frustrated with the way I'm trying to do something, it turns out I just don't know the right way. The forum has helped greatly with me learning the proper way to do things.
@mwb posted:The micro torch is my preferred soldering tool; rare that I use an iron or gun except for electrical bits. I migrated to the torch years ago as it just seemed "right" in my hands. You use what works for you. Practice and more practice. And, then setting up and prepping, and getting everything "just so" before soldering is key.
Thank you Martin for the advice. I didn't know about using a flame, I thought I had to use a soldering iron. I cannot believe how much easier it was to solder brass with a micro torch. I was very careful to be quick with the flame and not to overheat or warp any of the brass sides.
For me, this torch changes the whole game on building a brass kit. Now I have confidence I can finish this project.
I don't know if you need to be so careful about heating it for too long, just avoid getting the metal red hot and it should be fine. Your solder joint a few posts above probably could be improved with some more heat, actually.
This is a little off-topic, but I recently figured out how to form some handrail stanchions by getting a 1/16 brass rod red hot, hammering the end flat, and then creating a curve at the end. What I found was I could get the metal red hot safely as long as I removed the flame as soon as it was red. You might try heating a piece of brass stock to see how it behaves when it gets that hot to give you an idea of how much heat you can safely apply. Of course, the smaller the piece, the quicker it will be to heat it up.
@Johnbeere posted:I don't know if you need to be so careful about heating it for too long, just avoid getting the metal red hot and it should be fine. Your solder joint a few posts above probably could be improved with some more heat, actually.
This is a little off-topic, but I recently figured out how to form some handrail stanchions by getting a 1/16 brass rod red hot, hammering the end flat, and then creating a curve at the end. What I found was I could get the metal red hot safely as long as I removed the flame as soon as it was red. You might try heating a piece of brass stock to see how it behaves when it gets that hot to give you an idea of how much heat you can safely apply. Of course, the smaller the piece, the quicker it will be to heat it up.
Thanks @johnbeere, my plan is to leave this engine in a brass finish. I read that after a good polishing the shell can be sealed from future oxidation with a clear gloss coat.
That's why I'm being so careful with heat while using this micro torch. I'm afraid to overheat the brass because it might leave a permanent burn mark that everyone will see. I checked out those roof castings on eBay @bob2 mentioned above. I don't have the skill set to separate the existing LWS roof and add a new Adams cast roof without damaging the panels. This is my first build and I know it won't be perfect but I'm going to give it a good effort.
I just finished using the micro touch for attaching the brass nose casting to side panels. Everything is holding together. I will take some photos later and post an update.
@T.Albers posted:I just finished using the micro touch for attaching the brass nose casting to side panels. Everything is holding together. I will take some photos later and post an update.
I’ll be interested to see that. I thought that this sort of assembly was where resistance soldering excelled but I admit I’ve only experimented with it and not on attaching brass panels.
I have a cast PA that is now polished. I like it! It will stay bare brass, and maybe get a polished PB to go with it.
If you got the nose successfully attached, you are well on your way to expert status. The rest will be easy.
While I disagree about heat not hurting until the sheet turns red ( brass will partially anneal before turning red) once you get good with the torch, you can attach handrails.
Clean the handrail and body + hole area. Flatten a teeny chip of solder and nestle it up against the inserted handrail. Paste flux will hold it.
Then - this is important - heat only the sheet metal. Don’t let the flame hit the handrail or it will instantly turn red and destroy itself. The solder will leap into a small and perfect funnel shape, and pull your torch immediately out of there.
Since Bob disagrees with me about how much heat you can put on brass, go with his opinion, he's much more experienced than me.
I still would recommend to experiment with a piece of scrap brass to get an idea of how much heat you can put on it.
Update Feb 22nd
The rear end piece is holding great after being soldered from the inside with a micro torch. Also, I didn't damaged the outside of the shell using a flame. I read the extra flux can be cleaned off with a little dish soap, baking soda and warm water. The brass shell will be polished with Brasso once I have it all together because it still shows 50-years of dirt and tarnish. I found an 8 oz. bottle of this stuff on sale for $2.98 plus free shipping.
The next big item was soldering the nose casting to the shell. I clamped outsides of the nose together and used a wet rag as a heat sink as recommended previously. The micro torch heated up the nose casting and it accepted solder just fine.
@Hancock52 I did not want to chance this front solder connection ever coming apart (plus my soldering joint looked ugly). So for extra insurance on top of that solder joint I also applied JB weld inside where the brass nose meets the shell. Now, I have to wait 24 hours for the JB weld to fully dry.
I wouldn’t have to wait 24 hours for the JB weld to dry if I would have trusted my newly learned skill of soldering with a micro torch. While pondering my lack of metal crafting skills I found another LWS advertisement in an old OSR.
In the October 1977 issue of OSR magazine (issue #46) Locomotive Workshop reissued this E9 kit for $104.95. The cab’s nose casting on this newer 1977 kit was done in soft white metal. The description of this reissued LWS kit read: Above include double etched brass super structure cast Brittania metal nose (solderable), brass details, and sprung truck kits. Wheelsets & power available separately. In 1977 a $104.95 kit would calculate to about $451 in today’s dollars without the B-Unit. That 1977 advertisement listed the B-Unit separately for an additional cost of $89.95.
Stay tuned, after the JB weld dries I will post another update.
The look of your solder joints may be from a hesitation to use enough heat. While you should be careful, you shouldn't be too afraid of using too much heat. That nose casting will be soaking up most of the heat during soldering due to its size, so you probably can put quite a lot onto it without causing any damage. Otherwise, nice to see some progress... You're probably going to be finished before I get done with my Pacific.
Roof contour wound up looking a lot better than I thought it would. Very nice. How about a shot of the Cab end roof transition?
Update Feb 23rd
@bob2 here’s the shell to nose front connection you requested. It’s not great. The 1/8” square on the engineer’s side slipped down at some point during the clamping/soldering process. The empty space at the top of the 1/8” square does not bother me but I will file the bottom of the 1/8” square smooth so it matches the bottom line of the nose castings.
@Hancock52 the Union Pacific Historical Society Volume 8, Issue #4 arrived. I thought it was going to cover the UP’s E9 passenger diesels that were delivered in mid 1950's. Instead it was an article about the rebuilding of the 949 and 951 in spring 1993. It was 6 pages long and had lots of photos.
@Johnbeere you had mentioned I might finish this E9 project before your Pacific gets done. You may be correct because I made lots of easy progress on the shell since my last update. With the JB weld dried, I could finally make those four porthole opening on each side of the shell. Since I don’t have raked drill bits I started with a small standard drill to make a hole in the center and then enlarge the opening to 3/8” using a Dremel tool. During this process I placed 1” wood supports inside the shell (cut to the shape of the shell) to prevent any stress on my precious solder joints.
Looking at the rest of the instruction sheet I believe the hard work is behind me as I arrived at the 3rd and 4th suggestions on the Locomotive Workshop's sheet of paper. 3. Dynamic brakes (E9 only) – mounts on central hatch and may be deleted in most cases. I read in the old OSR magazines that Locomotive Workshop sometimes used Kemtron brass castings in their kits. I believe this information is true because this kit came with some very nice 48” and 36” lost wax fan grill castings.
Next, a single 1” opening was made in the roofs center section for the 48” dynamic brake fan grill. Using the micro torch the 48” grill was then soldered in place and 0000 steel wool was lightly used to clean oxidation from the outside of the shell.
4th suggestion on the Locomotive Workshop's sheet of paper. 4. Winterizing Hatch - Fit a screen in the depressed portion of each pressing. Problem. Locomotive Workshop did not provide enough screen material with this kit to fill the depressed portions of both the winterizing hatches. It’s kind of funny LWS provided two end caps for this E9 “A” locomotive but only included one screen.
I saw this part was missing early in the build so I preordered a new brass screen (part# 48117) from Precision Scale Co. New 4” x 6”, 60 mesh brass screens were cut with tin snips to fit the winterization hatches. The next sentence under #4 read: The bottom of the hatch can be formed to fit the roof, and then soldered to it. Screen portions of the hatches fit the center portion of the car body.
The bottom of the winterizing hatches were sanded to match the roof’s curvature and then soldered in place. 0000 steel wool was used again to clean the oxidation marks from the outside of the shell. Two brass screens were cut and then secured into the depressed portion of each winterizing hatch.
The build is moving along much smoother now. I have made it past the hard part! Stay tuned for the next update…
Very nice, looks like you're making good progress.
Yes. Impressive! You will be scratchbuilding steam models by the time this is finished. Very good work.
I was wondering how the roof matched the cab - your side looks good. Everybody has to use a touch of Bondo now and then.
Update Feb 25th
As I look back over things I have learned during this build three items come to the top of my list.
I hope in posting these photos about building this LWS kit other OGR forum members can learn from my trials. Experienced builders will have better approaches and techniques for assembling these old kits then I do. What’s important is we are sharing this information so others can learn. For 54 issues OSR magazine’s front cover showed the phrase “Knowledge is of no value unless it is shared with others”.
Next on my to-do list is I needed to complete the 5th suggestion on the Locomotive Workshops sheet of paper. 5. Fans – mount each fan in a circular hole cut into the depressed area over the engine hatches. A wood support was placed inside the brass shell to prevent it from flexing. Four ¾” openings were made in the roof to accommodate the 36” fan grills. I started the openings with a small drill bit and then enlarged them to the correct size with a Dremel tool. The four 36” fan grills were then secured in place. @bob2 here’s an overhead photo showing the nose connection to the shell.
Now seemed like a good point in this project to tackle the front foot step that was only half-molded into the pilot on the engineer’s side of the cab. You can see from my early project photos the front foot step on the fireman’s side (green arrow) was in the finished state but the engineers foot step (red arrow) was not finished.
A Dremel tool with a small cutting bit was used to remove most the thick brass from the center of the engineers foot step. Then, I carefully squared the step’s inside edges with a small flat file (aka jewelers file). Here’s the after photo. @Hancock52 you can see from the older photos above vs. the newer photo below I have been polishing up that rough nose casting.
Step 6, is for mounting exhaust stacks if you are building an E7 locomotive. Since I’m building an E9, skip.
Step 7, is for using the 2-rail side truck castings LWS provided. Since I’m going 3-rail, skip.
Step 8, is for mounting the fuel tank components separately. Since I’m going to use a 3-rail donor chassis with fuel tank, skip.
Step 9, is for building a separate frame for mounting a motor and gears. Since I picked up a 3-rail donor chassis with motors and gears, skip.
That was the end of the Locomotive Workshop suggestion sheet. All three sheets that came with this kit are attached below. The first page of suggestions was as described in this thread. It covered both E7 and E9 locomotives and seems to have been an afterthought from Jan at Locomotive Workshop in hopes of providing more details with some helpful hand drawings for the kit builder. It was stapled on top of the second page that had almost identical information but with less details and only covered building an E9. The third page was plan views and general specifications for the EMD E9A diesel-electric locomotive.
A builder could stop right here and put some wheels underneath this shell and have a pretty brass locomotive sitting on a shelf. Not me. Since the kit builder is apparently on his own now for what happens next, I feel this brass locomotive needs more. Hint: I have been simultaneously building a cab interior for this E9 so my visitors won’t see inside the empty shell from the front windshield openings.
Stay tuned for the next update!
Update Feb 27th
Using drawings from my past E8 interior builds (attached) I created a new floor and walls out of sheets of brass. I discovered flat brass sheets can be cut, sanded and glued together just like my other cab interiors that were built out of basswood. The brass floor and walls needed to be slightly smaller than my previous E8 interior builds to allow them to fit inside this thick nose casting. Note: wear gloves when trimming flat brass sheets on a sander, they get real hot in your hands!
Scale City Design part# 48-041 interior cab details were modified and painted to fit this application.
The engineer (Scale City Design part# 48-624) was painted and modified to be holding a 2-way radio mic in his right hand.
The fireman’s seat needed to be moved over from my original location so I could get this great looking figure (Arttista part# 1406) to fit inside the E9’s nose casting.
I’m still reading those old OSR magazines while building this kit. In the 1982 issue of OSR magazine (issue #75) pages 21 ~ 22 you can read Jan Lorenzen’s thoughts on O scale business. Jan gave a second OSR magazine interview for the manufactures junction in a 1986 issue (issue #89). As Locomotive Workshop expanded he also bought the original molds/parts for Athearn, Lobaugh, Custom Brass Imports and Reynolds.
While researching inside these classic issues I found out he started Locomotive Workshop in 1963 and was involved in O scale brass manufacturing for 40 years. In 1987 Jan writes a letter to OSR (issue #96 page 59) describing how customers are getting older in our hobby and sales are declining for O scale kit manufactures.
Next, I’m adding more exterior details. Stay tuned for the next update…
Nice touch! I assume that you will leave the cab interior and details polished brass.
@Hancock52 posted:Nice touch! I assume that you will leave the cab interior and details polished brass.
Yes, I'm leaving the interior in polished brass for a classic look. Also, I'm installing a small 2mm warm white light on the roof of the cab to help with a soft warm glow. I almost did not include the engineer and fireman since I have not seen crew figures in other polished brass locomotives. But this engine is being made to run on my layout and not sit on a shelf so I decided to include them. It would have looked odd having two empty seats in the cab as the locomotive roars by blasting its horn and whistle.
The Scale City Design engineer was in bad shape when I got him. I asked them for a replacement because flash covered his face. Scale City did not respond back so I did the best I could with jewelers files to create eyes, nose and a face with the engineer figure I had.
This build is going much smoother now. I have all the parts and should be finishing soon.
Update March 1st
Installing exterior details meant I had to drill a bunch of holes into the brass shell and nose casting. In my opinion, I only got one chance at drilling holes into brass and if I messed up… that hole’s there forever. Take your time during this step and buy a small drill press if possible. Only use brand-new sharp drill bits and double and triple check you measurements. Also, I used masking tape as reference line to help mark the locations as accurate as possible before drilling.
Here’s how I made the two 3mm openings for the classification lights. First, place masking tape on the brass nose casting and mark your center location. Then put an arrow on the tape where the classification light should be located on the engineer’s side of the cab. Next, measure this lights exact location from the center line and copy it to the fireman’s side of the cab. These lights also need to be located on the same horizontal plane (reference line). So, make sure the tape is in a straight line to the rear of the nose casting. Then measure the tapes exact height off the engineer’s rear side of the nose casting and duplicated it on the other side. These lights were an extra challenge to drill because they were located on a curved surface. Only use new sharp drill bits because you don’t want a dull bit dancing across your smooth brass surface. You can now drill your 3mm holes in the brass nose casting for your classification lights.
The lower railings on the pilot was easier to mark because they were already on a fixed horizontal plane. First mark the cabs center location on the masking tape and then place marks on the tape where you want to drill holes. Then measure these marks and duplicate these exact locations on other side of the nose casting. Now you can drill holes for the railings that will be installed in the center grove of the ribbed/art deco pilot.
Inside my original Locomotive Workshop box they also included: 2x brass horns, 6x brass steps, a brass intake cap for the steam generator, enough brass sheets to assemble a fuel tank (now poorly soldered together from my early practice attempts) and 2x brass air intake screens. Problem. The 2x brass air intake screens are way to long for an E9A unit. Locomotive Workshop supplied 16 ½” long side screens from their B unit kit when this A unit should have only been shipped with 13 ½” screens. In the photo below it shows these parts mentioned plus a few extras. I’m not sure why they included a second end cap on this “A” unit or that tall brass sheet.
I would recommend drilling all your holes into the shell and nose casting before permanently attaching any small brass details. The reason is these tiny brass details are fragile and will break off if installed too early (I learned this fun fact the hard way). Here’s another fun fact: In the June 1988 OSR magazine issue #99 they wrote the first O-scale diesel locomotive kit with photoengraved brass sides was advertised for sale in a model railroad magazine in May of 1948.
My next move is to finish the chassis and wiring. Stay tuned for the next update.
Thanks for the updates; this is helpful and interesting stuff...
Mark in Oregon
@Strummer posted:Thanks for the updates; this is helpful and interesting stuff...
Mark in Oregon
Thanks @Strummer once I got past the tough part in the beginning it has been fun to build. I have learned a lot and its getting real close to being done.
The chassis is wired now and I should have another update soon!
You are way past this suggestion - I include it for others. A good spring-loaded center punch and a magnifying lamp can make aligning holes really easy. Just remember to back up the sheet with steel for the center punch, and with wood for drilling. No need for backup with castings or heavy sheet.
A hole in the wrong place can be easily filled, even on a polished model. Just partially tap the hole and run a brass screw in the hole. Solder helps make it permanent, and you can actually drill into it. I have fixed many truck sideframes this way, where the axle hole was a half-diameter off.
You really can't see the polish in this shot, but I assure you, there are four plugged holes near the belt line, and you cannot see them. Even in person.
@bob2 posted:You are way past this suggestion - I include it for others. A good spring-loaded center punch and a magnifying lamp can make aligning holes really easy. Just remember to back up the sheet with steel for the center punch, and with wood for drilling. No need for backup with castings or heavy sheet.
A hole in the wrong place can be easily filled, even on a polished model. Just partially tap the hole and run a brass screw in the hole. Solder helps make it permanent, and you can actually drill into it. I have fixed many truck sideframes this way, where the axle hole was a half-diameter off.
You really can't see the polish in this shot, but I assure you, there are four plugged holes near the belt line, and you cannot see them. Even in person.
Thank you @bob2 for all your great advice through this build. Is your polished brass Alco a Central Locomotive Works or Adams & Sons?
Both - Smith made the patterns for Alco in 1949, and Lindsey Adams did the castings. Bob & Winnie got to go to the unveiling of the real thing at the Waldorf Astoria.
Update, March 3rd
Years ago I remember going into the Train Shack in San Dimas, CA and seeing rows and rows of beautiful brass O scale locomotives displayed on a wall behind glass. When I inquired about the 3-rail brass trains the store employee chuckled and said “Sure there pretty to look at but small parts break-off when you handle them and they don’t pull as good as modern Lionel or MTH engines”. The employee smiled as he called that wall of early 3-rail brass Weaver/Williams engines his shelf queens. I left the store that day and thought, I didn’t want a brass locomotive if it couldn’t pull as good as my other engines.
I grew up in the plastic ready-to-run (RTR) era I never knew people built locomotives with custom drivetrains until I became an OGR digital subscriber and read those early magazine issues. My hats off to all you guys back then. You picked a transmission based open gears or sealed gears. Then selected if you wanted the drive train to be flexible shaft, solid shaft or chain drive. For steam engines you could even pick the exact size of the drivers. Also, you could choose a motor by the number of windings, if it was open enclosure or enclosed Pitman. Reading about all those choices gave me confidence going forward.
After many years of doubting a brass locomotives capability this was my chance to make it right. So far I have only built an empty shell. Now I needed a 3-rail chassis with motors that would allow it to pull as strong as other modern locomotives. I ended up buying a used K-Line, twin can DC motored E8 “A” dummy unit without electronics. The silver K-Line steps in the photo below will be removed and the brass Kemtron steps that came with the Locomotive Workshop kit will be installed.
Next, I had to install the 6 wheel E9 side frames. Here's a photo of the 50 year old Locomotive Workshop soft metal side frame castings that came with the original kit. These just don’t have the fine details I want on this build.
I thought about reusing the K-Line side frames that came with the donor chassis. The K-Line’s side frames have crisper details than the Locomotive Workshop side frames above.
Like all those early OSR magazines said, I wanted to take pride in saying “I built it”. So, I ended up buying part# 965 from American Scale Models. These come in pieces and have to be assembled. American Scale Models included very detailed brass lost wax side frames, coil springs, EMD E8/E9 Hyatt journal bearings and other small parts I don’t know the names of.
After making small mounting brackets for attaching the brass side frames to the K-Line trucks I did a test fit with the shell. The rear assembly fit perfect. The only issue was the front truck needed to be trimmed back (at the arrow) to swing freely under the LWS fixed pilot. My plan was to use a dummy front coupler on the shells fixed front pilot anyways because my layout has 042 curves. Also, to help the brass side frames fit a little closer to the K-Line trucks I filed back a small brake shoe (on the inside) near the blind wheel.
I have only been semi-successful in upgrading my other locomotives to ERR. It wasn’t ERR’s fault. Their electronics came with full instructions and wiring diagrams. But I still ended up melting some component on a circuit board. That was an expensive mistake and the cooked circuit board is sitting around here somewhere. Maybe I’ll post a photo of it one day when the smell of melted plastic (and money going down a drain) is not so fresh in my mind. It will be like that T.V. show CSI. You guy look at the dead ERR board and try to guess how it happened.
Therefore, an older TMCC board with diesel sounds (from another project) was installed so this chassis can run on my layout. I read the TMCC antenna cannot be installed inside a metal shell, so it will be ran outside and connected to the rear striker plate. This brass striker plate is isolated from the shell by a soft flexible vestibule so it will be electrically insulated from ground. In the next photo you can see the front of the steel chassis where it was trimmed back to fit inside the thick brass nose casting. Also, the fuel tank’s original color from the donor K-Line E8 engine was incorrect for this project so it was painted with Tru-Color brass paint (part# TCP-288) to help it blend in better. Otherwise the American Scale Models side-frames did not need any modifications to fit next to the fuel tank or under the Locomotive Workshop’s E9 shell.
Stay tuned for the final update.
I really like the offerings from American Scale Models. Great detail at a very reasonable price. I have been replacing many of my freight car trucks with their offerings. The E unit side frames are very, very nice. Great decision over the K-Line ones.
Well, what can I say besides that is a VAST difference and improvement. I did not know about American Scale Models before now - will have a look at their products, which seem first rate - by a long shot.
But, noooo, I am not thinking of going over my last diesel engine project to improve it.
Advice - throw out the failed ERR part, as realistically you will never have a use for its components. ERR boards are VERY sensitive to static and other hazards of DIY efforts. We're lucky that they are available at all through Scott Mann. I have blown more than a couple of these boards, mainly through being impatient. It's best not to let them haunt you.
I look forward to seeing the finished engine. This has been a truly inspiring project, but what I want to see is how you have polished the cab/nose of it!
Yes! Spectacular power section. Did not know Bill was importing Diesel trucks.
K-Line was the best choice - I have converted four Train Masters, and really like the all-axle drive.
You are about one click away from becoming a 2-railer. Be careful.
@bob2 posted:Yes! Spectacular power section. Did not know Bill was importing Diesel trucks.
K-Line was the best choice - I have converted four Train Masters, and really like the all-axle drive.
You are about one click away from becoming a 2-railer. Be careful.
Oh, VERY wise words - beware!!!
@bob2 posted:Yes! Spectacular power section. Did not know Bill was importing Diesel trucks.
K-Line was the best choice - I have converted four Train Masters, and really like the all-axle drive.
You are about one click away from becoming a 2-railer. Be careful.
Certainly is treading closely, 
Some really excellent work here with this kit! 
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