Building Dennis Brennan's Roundhouse Front & Rear Clerestory

Thanks Kevin for this info, please keep us posted of the progress. Dennis is a quality guy, we had a great experience when he came to our home to shoot our layout a few years ago.

Kevin....Great post and the picture of Dennis working his magic is super!  I am so proud to have both of you as members of the Mid-America 3-Railer group.  I am still struggling with how to incorporate one of Dennis' roundhouses and hope to hear from him soon about a conversation when all of us were at St. Louis....

Thanks,

Alan

I found pics of Dennis's pilot round house.  I took them two years ago. 

The windows and the doors have since been updated.  There is now an option to have a sash on the rear.  Essentially, with the optional interior detail, the glass is "sandwiched" between two peel and stick sashes.  They look great!  I am working on assembling the new windows right, and I will post a picture of the long wall with the windows installed by the end of the weekend.

Thanks for the kind words, gentlemen.

As Kevin said, when he visited two years ago, there was only an empty shell comprised of 15 plaster castings. And to reiterate, I was undecided about bringing it to market. In case you’re wondering, I thought it might be interesting to provide a glimpse of how I arrived at this point. Hopefully, this will cast some light on the process of getting from there to here.

First, I would be remiss if I didn’t thank Al Zamorski for pushing me to develop a roundhouse to complement his Millhouse River Studio’s elegantly designed turntable. So… with shell in tow, I went to York to gauge the interest. The initial response to the unfinished structure exceeded my expectations. With that encouragement, I forged ahead and finished the model. Still, at that point, producing the kit was not a done deal. Creating the pilot was one thing. Now, I had to think about the actual production—the least of which is casting 1500 pieces just for a run of 100 kits for the basic 3 stall roundhouse. Add another 300 or so pieces for additional stalls and extensions and the numbers are staggering. My workshop, one walled off bay in my 3 car garage, would not accommodate the casting, drying, and storage for that amount of production. Needless to say, our vehicles are now sitting in the driveway. The walls were lined with shelves. Even with the added space, it soon became obvious that casting the entire run at one time was out of the question. 400 pounds of plaster later, with less than a third of the casting completed, it was crowded. After de-molding, the pieces are moved from the drying racks and put into labeled boxes. Cardboard is placed between castings to keep them from banging together.

And while I’m on the subject of boxing up the raw materials, let’s also consider shipping. The packing and shipping materials: rolls of foam sheets, bubble wrap, sheets of cardboard, packing peanuts, cardboard boxes, mailing tubes and padded envelopes gobble up room in a hurry.

Still, I need storage for other materials like the several sizes of 48” basswood sticks that will be cut into the 80 plus kit pieces for the beams, posts etc. To minimize waste, my buddy, Curt, created a cut list on a spreadsheet. Additionally, I created a jig to ensure accurate, repeatable cuts of several sticks at the same time. This is meticulous work and requires strict organization.

And back to Curt--while I think in terms of images, his brain sees numbers. I’m amazed at the efficiency of his calculations. The waste is miniscule. He’s also the guy who created the footprints based upon precise measurements of my model. There, he also saved me countless hours and provided a crucial element. I’ve also taken the extra step by printing full size footprints for 3 and 5 stalls on one sheet.   

The finely detailed laser cut windows and various other pieces were designed to my specifications by yet another seasoned professional. And this is still only part of the process. I haven’t even talked about the instructions which, in my mind, are essential for a great kit building experience. Nor have I mentioned the assembly line set up for packaging a kit like this. All along the way, there are countless decisions that affect the quality, efficiency, and practicality. I could go on but hopefully this will give you some appreciation for what’s involved in bringing any well-designed kit to market. I have to laugh when I read that someone feels that a beautifully executed model is overpriced and one could build it for $50.

Dennis Brennan

Brennan's Model Railroading

I have to laugh when I read that someone feels that a beautifully executed model is overpriced and one could build it for $50.

50 bucks....yeah right...I have that in spray paint for this massive kit!

Thank God for people like Dennis. Thanks Dennis for helping all of us with your wonderful project(s). I cannot wait to have mine finished.

The internet has its good points and its bad.  You've just pointed out one of its major shortfalls, in that it levels the playing field so much so that anyone can jump on here and make silly comments like that sound authoritative -- at least in their own minds anyway.  To the rest of us who know better, they only make fools of themselves with comments like that.

BTW, Dennis... what's the current status of your roundhouse kit?  Are you taking orders at this time?  Is there any info where I can read up on your offering?  For example, is it a 3-stall kit at this time?  Do you have plans for add-on stalls?  Etc...

Thanks for bringing something like to the market.

David

Hi David,

Dennis will have to address your questions regarding ordering status.  Having lived with this kit for the last three weeks I have come to learn quite a bit about it!  I do know that the basic kit will be a 3 stall version.  I know that you will be able to buy additional stalls.  I do not know the exact number of additional stalls that Dennis will make available, he will have to chime in on that one.  I know that purchasing the extension kit will allow the builder to extend up to five stalls.  For a 5 stall house this will give a uniform circular appearance across the back. 

We are building a 7 stall version of the base 3 stall kit with the optional extension.   The structure is impressive for both its enormity as well as its detail!  It measures 56" across the back, 37.5" across the front and 40" down the sides.  The build has been pretty straight forward, but it does take time.  In the 7 stall version there are 21 wall castings to prepare and join. 

This is not a simple 4 wall building that can be done in a few nights!  I know that to be done well this kit takes a significant amount of time, the majority of which is spent preparing (squaring, sanding and painting the plaster castings).  I also know that the walls look amazing when you are done.  Here are some pictures to illustrate that point....

This photo illustrates how big the RH is!

Dennis is taking a reference shot for the instructions.

A view from the side.  I really like the "jog" at the rear of the RH to extend the stalls.  This photo does not do it justice.  I will take more and post later.

Kevin, That will be a GREAT RH. Hope you can post more pictures soon.

Kevin about your turntable?

What Brand and size?

What is the distance between the turntable edge and the front of the roundhouse?

Roger, Kevin's turntable is one of mine ( Millhouse River Studio) and it is a 34". I believe the set back distance Kevin used was 13". Kevin if I'm wrong, please correct me.

David,

The basic roundhouse kit is comprised of 3 stalls. Because of its design, additional stalls are available in pairs so you can have a 5, 7 ,9 etc. I also offer an extension which has enough material to extend 5 stalls.

This is a limited edition of 100. Because of the enormous quantity of castings (over 1500) to make 100 kits plus additional stalls and extensions, I've broken the production run into thirds. The first third is done and I'm working on the instructions. The next run is scheduled to start in June. I already have people on that list. If you're interested, send me an email.

You can see some shots of the pilot model here:

Then scroll down to the bottom of his page.

Dennis Brennan

dennis@brennansmodelrr.com

816-252-4605

Al you were very close.  The outer engine stalls are 12.5" from the center of the stall to edge of the TT pit.  I chose to cheat by bending the tracks to make the sweep into the RH.  In order for the ties to lay side to side and remain straight as they radiate from the TT I would have needed 28" of entry or lead track.  I just did not have that kind of room.  The center 3 tracks will be straight shots and I will reserve those stalls for larger, articulated engines.  Tracks 2 and 6 will require a little bend and I think that my Challenger will clear....but I will not know for certain until the front is built.  Tracks 1 and 7 will have a slightly greater bend and will be for Northerns and Berks.

The TT is indeed a 34" from Al's company Millhouse River Studios.  What can I say about it that has not already been said?  It is amazing (okay Al, what is my commission again?).  I intentionally placed my TT on a peninsula because, for me the RH is the centerpiece of my layout and I wanted to view it from as many angles as possible.  Of course having the TT near the edge of the benchwork is very handy because with as slow as Al's TT can move I can easily eyeball the bridge when lining it up with the fixed tracks.

I did my homework, and for me the best TT was Al's and the best RH was Dennis's.  As I get closer to completion of my service terminal I think you will agree.

Okay..that looks like a Roundhouse!!, like you were standing at the turntable at the

Southern RR Museum in Spencer, NC.  I figured I would need a two stall engine house

at each end of my line and maybe a one stall for the logging branch, as realistic choices for the kinds of rail lines these are, so I am not in the market, but I wonder just how many Svenska Kronor (Swedish Crowns) does this tiny structure cost?  Say, for the basic 3 stall kit?  And no, it will not be $50...it costs me more than that to

get the cast stone stuff for walls I use in some much smaller scratchbuilt structures, and that includes no paint, basswood parts, Grandtline/Tichy windows and doors, roofing material, etc.  That stone stuff is $12 a sheet, and it takes four sheets for

a small building, and a large stamp mill, etc, is gonna cost twice that, or more, just for wall material.

And, just curious, was this modeled after any particular roundhouse, still existing

or not?

This roundhouse is inspired by the Norfolk & Western Ry. Roundhouse in Williamson, WV. The more-than-a-century-old prototype has a traveling overhead crane that traverses the open two story center section. It also uses roll up overhead corrugated steel roller doors. And, in case you’re wondering, I’ve discovered that roller doors were in existence sometime prior to 1925.

Although not an exact scale model of that or any particular structure, my model employs a common concrete beam and brick style of architecture typically found in commercial and industrial buildings. The clerestory window treatment is derived from prototypical roundhouse design.  The optional wooden doors are accurate copies of those on an existing roundhouse in Kansas City.  Using artistic license, I’ve combined the best architectural features to create a distinctive and plausible design that will be an eye-catching focal point on any layout.

The basic 3 stall kit is $599.

Dennis Brennan

Brennan's Model Railroading

dennis@brennansmodelrr.com

Updating progress.....

I have finished all of the windows on the lower level.  For my seven stall kit with a power house addition this was a total of 62 windows.  The window sashes are peel and stick. 

The windows make a big difference!

Dennis is offering an optional interior detail kit that includes sashes for the interior windows and window sills. 

Here is a close up of the difference between the windows with and without sashes.

Progress has been slow, but each improvement motivates me to finish.  I will post more pictures in the weeks to come.

Nice work, Kevin. You are now an expert on window installation.  

I am looking for a 3 stall roundhouse for a 24" turntable.  Where can I get info on Brennan's roundhouses?

William 1 here is a link to Dennis's web page. His contact info is there.

While I have not posted in awhile, I have been very busy with the various sub-assemblies for the roundhouse.  I have spent many evenings spraying the numerous posts and beams and building windows.  The clerestory has 49 windows (if memory serves).  I opted for the interior detail kit so that makes the windows a 3 part assembly (two sashes and the glazing). 

Dennis came over this weekend and we spent time working through the build and fine-tuning the instructions.  We discovered a few things that will facilitate the build for the end-user.

We also discovered that the RH can be set relatively close to the edge of the TT.  Well, we knew that we could do this but we were both pleasantly surprised at how good it looks.  I decided to sacrifice lead track from the TT in order to extend the back of RH the maximum depth of a full wall casting. 

Mercy! THAT is a roundhouse!

Imagine something that big can hold one of my train rooms....

Thank you for a good write up detailing what it takes to produce a kit!

Principle Rookie,

This is Roger down in Springfield, MO. Can you tell me what the two items are in your #1 photo? They are in the floor of the roundhouse and they are rectangle in shape. Thanks in advance.

Hi Roger,

Those are speakers.  They are logitech computer speakers with a powered sub.  I installed a player that will play 4 tracks of roundhouse sounds in a loop.  It makes for a pretty fun effect!

It is a great effect!

Kevin and Dennis, you guys are doing a fantastic job on the roundhouse build! Looking forward to more photos. Kevin, I like the idea of the speakers buried in the RH floor. What are you going to hide them with? You could of also placed them beneath your stall tracks in the service pit area.

Outstanding build. Al, I see one of my members bought your TT at York. Hopefully I will see it and maybe help install it when he receives it.

An easy response to that is: You're probably right! Take a crack at it and send my pictures of your finished project!

Simon

Hi Al,

I covered the speakers with foam core.  I am sorry the photos are not doing your turntable justice.  I have been crawling up, over, around, on top of the service area so much that I thought it best not to install any of your TT's detail parts.  The removal of the bridge is so simple and convenient...great design!

Here is the first layer of foam core.

Here is a shot of the completed subfloor.

Here is a shot displaying a section of the finished "concrete" floor.  I could not be happier with the RH.  It is simply incredible.....and it is only going to get better.

The posts and beams are structural. They add lateral support to the walls and support the clerestory windows.

HI GUYS,

Looks like you have a little extra building on the left side of the roundhouse, as you are looking from the TT. Is this part of the Roundhouse kit also? Looks like it has the same castings as the rest of the roundhouse.

Roger,

Kevin has added a boiler house. He purchased some extra roundhouse castings, cut them apart, added a door etc. He even has a detailed boiler and a chimney. It will be an awesome addition when he's finished with it.

I'll let him chime in and give you the complete details.

Dennis

If one were to use straight roundhouse tracks -

how far from the center of the turntable would the front wall of your roundhouse be?

Ed Rappe

So what did the final distance become from the edge of the pit to the front of the RH?

It looks pretty short but the tracks still look good on entry to the doors.

Ideally, the tracks should be straight and perfectly centered between the stalls from front to back. This distance from the turntable varies with the number of stalls. Below is the optimum spacing from the center of the turntable to the front of my roundhouse.

3 bay = 39.79621 from center of turntable to front of roundhouse
5 bay = 46.76592   "        "      "      "         "     "     "         "
7 bay = 49.69694   "        "      "      "         "     "     "         "

Now, of course, you can get closer without bending the tracks but as you get closer the track angle has to increase. This forces the end stall tracks toward the walls. The limit is reached when there is not enough clearance between the end of the track and the wall. Obviously, a slight bend in the track after it enters the stall will solve that problem. When you move in even closer, the tracks have to start bending as they come off the turntable.

As evidenced by Kevin's 7 stall roundhouse, it's possible to cut that distance to 10.5" between the edge of the turntable and the front of the roundhouse using the Millhouse River 34 " turntable. However, all the tracks except the center have to be bent. Although it's not prototypical, it actually doesn't look out of place. It really boils down to how much space you have and how much you're willing to compromise.

Hi Roger,

Dennis has it right.  The bump out structure is intended to be a powerhouse.  I purchased 2 three window wall castings and a solid wall casting from Dennis.  I cut the castings to fit the available space.  I also cut a hole in the solid casting to set a door in that wall.  I purchased an additional door from Dennis too....the same used in the center casting of the rear wall of the RH

In addition I purchased a boiler, smoke stack, steam engine and dynamo from Leo at Crow River.  I saw the picture below on the Crow River home page and I knew I had to recreate in the powerhouse of my RH.  Building the steam engine was quite a challenge!

I will post pictures of my powerhouse in the next couple days!

Length of Lead Track to RH

I have learned that modeling is a balance between wishes and concessions.  I wanted an RH deep enough to house a Big Boy.  I also wanted the extension necessary to accommodate larger locos to run the width of the back wall, not to jut out for only a few of the stalls because I wanted the perimeter of the rear wall of the RH to be round and follow the circular line of the TT.  These two wishes require a great deal of real estate.  Consequently I had to cheat and shorten the length of the lead from the TT to RH to only 10.5".  Bending the entry track was the only viable option.  I am very pleased with how it turned out.

Dennis,

"Ideally, the tracks should be straight and perfectly centered between the stalls from front to back."

In this case, the number of stalls would not matter and the TT-center to RH disatnce would be constant, correct? Would this be about 50 inches then?

Kevin (and Dennis) - great job, BTW! Can't wait to see it in person.

Thx!

Alex

Alex,

You are right assuming a round house describes a perfect circle.  However, in my roundhouse, the middle rear wall section is wider than the other stalls. That means the stall angles on either side of the middle stall are slightly greater than the rest of the stall angles. As you add more stalls, the average stall angle decreases. This then affects the straight line distance.

Roger,

Here are pictures of the powerhouse.  Like everything, this remains a work in progress.  I am very pleased at how it is taking shape.  This is my first kitbash and I am having a lot of fun!

Here is an overhead view.  I still have to detail the boiler front and then glue it to the wall.  The front was intended to be attached to the boiler as a stand alone structure but I thought it would make sense and look cool for the front to be inside the powerhouse.   The steam engine needs to be painted still as well!  The kit includes steam pipes that I will add later.

View from the front of the RH.  Cutting the doorway into the plaster casting was a challenge, but not overly so.  I still have to attach the door!

Hey Dennis, check this out!  I was going to hang fire doors on either side of the wall, not structurally accurate but it may have conveyed the desired illusion.  The more I thought about it the more dissatisfied I became with this plan.  I cut into the wall and did it right!  This little door took quite a bit of time (and nerve).  I am very proud of the outcome.

Building this RH has required an insane amount of time, but the real insanity is just how much fun I am having building it.  It helps that everything works and goes together as it was designed and intended to do (Good job on that Dennis).  For all the work required I have experienced very little frustration, and I am a novice modeler.

Alex, you are more than welcome to come and see the RH in person!