Buy/Make Anything Cool Lately (Tinplate Version)

NWL : WONDERFUL ...I was hoping either you or one of the other Flyer experts on this thread would tell me that it either was or was not a set.  I thank you for the information.  Well that is great news.  I probably don't have any less expensive a set.  I paid $10 for the loco and 8$ each for the cars.  Purchased in Maryland in 2002 at an antique car show held at a boat museum! 

Thanks again NWL.

Respectfully  Don

Not mine, just something I spotted for sale recently and thought it was interesting . Was listed as a "Standard Gauge Frankenstein Engine" . This was probably somebody's pride and joy 80 years ago. Reminds me of the evil truck in the movie "Duel". 

Anybody recognize the motor assembly ? The gears are as big as the rims.

Oh no! It's a WWI tank!

Guys I need a little help.  I just acquired 3 Hornby tinplate 4-wheel Pullman coaches that I have tentatively identified as M1 coaches.  I checked the Binns Road site and they show them as dating from 1931 - 1956 depending on details.  I have two, that I believe are post war as they actually showed in a picture in my Hornby O'gauge reference as part of an M1 set in 1954.  However the third coach appears to be from an earlier era due to it having the drop link couplers as opposed to the automatic couplers and a longitudinal ribbed roof vice the cross ribbed roof.  Pictures will tell story below.  Just wondering if you have any further data on these.  Frenchtrains provided me with an electronic copy of the 1959 French Hornby catalog but these Pullman's do not appear which seems to fit with the reference material stating that they were withdrawn in 1956.

Anyway here are the pictures:

Here is the side livery, all cars have the same.  Clearly French Hornby as they all state "Fab en France, Mecanno, Paris" on one end and "Serie Hornby" on the other end.  Note also the two languages on the side, "Voiture Pullman" and "Pullman Car"

Now here is what I believe to be the later roof.  It has cross ribs, is very smooth, and you can see the "automatic coupler" exhibiting the 45 deg cut in the upper wire link that appears to date it from 1950 on.

Below is what I am speculating is an earlier roof.  It has two longitudinal "ribs" and two simulated knobs or screw tops but the roof is not attached with screws or bolts.  Next picture shows the coupler.

The car with what I believe to be the earlier roof is equipped with the small drop link coupler which my reference dates from 1928 through (either 1931 or 1936 I have two different dates one from my Hornby book and one from the Binns Road web site).  This leads me to believe that this is an earlier vintage car from the other two despite exactly the same lithographed livery.

So it appears that I have 3 French Hornby Pullman all with this blue/cream livery but one of them may be of an earlier vintage than the other two.  None of these cars has plastic wheels which were available from 1951.  What do you think??

Thanks for the help

Don McErlean

Hi Don .. as you are finding out French Hornby can be a very different kettle of fish compared to the English variety . This is because on certain lines Hornby Francais had a free hand and were basically autonomous when it came to design and production of local product , although of course they DID make use of various UK components and models , and I suspect espescially just before and after the war did incorporate a number of Hornby UK leftovers?

The roof on your odd man out French Pullman is much the same as the UK Hornby No.1 Pullmans , so I suspect that maybe France got the moulds and tinware when the UK had ceased No1 Pullman production ...

SO although I cant give you a definitive dating on them I would suspect mid 30's to late 40's which ties in with your research and the drop link couplers

News just in ! ( lol )

Binns Road has a green roofed version dated as ... dum dum duuuummm!

1931-36 ... as you will see on that page also ... drop.link and automatic couplers were both in use at that time period ...

http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/rai...r/coaches/index.html

Binns is by no means definative but it does a good job mostly

I think for a more definitive look at Hornby France you would probably have to defer to Clive Lammings book on it ( which I dont own cos I can never find a reasonably priced copy! )

Not your normal tinplate item, but too cool to pass up.  As I wrap up spring projects at work I was having crews clean up the turbine deck and I nearly had this empty 5 gallon can thrown into the recycle bin.  Fortunately I changed my mind.  Some time in the next couple weeks the top will come off of this can and I will have a really cool trash can for the train room or the shop.

Think about how cool this would look as a paint scheme for a tank car!

Use to use Kroil oil back in the early 80’s. Best stuff going to loosed rusted screws or to take apart anything rusted. Best penetrating oil ever. The only thing that ever came close was tapping fluid.

Fatman:  As always thank you for your comments and insights.  Those of us now in our 70's do sometimes forget that the era just before the war was one of uncertainty and "make do" for many manufacturers.  As you suggested, I did check the Binns Road site and saw my Pullman with a GREEN roof!  Now I have another variation to hunt!! .  The Hornby No.1 Pullman roof does indeed look like a perfect match for my "odd man out" Pullman and your speculation on how it ended up on a French Pullman makes perfect sense.  I can attest that it is almost certainly a factory installation as there are no tool marks to indicate that the roof has ever been off or changed.   I also appreciated your comment that the small drop link and the automatic couplers were both in use at the same time.  This supports the dating that I mentioned. 

I also don't have Mr. Lammings book, for about the same reason you don't have it, but I will give you a reference on British Hornby that you might not have and it is more reasonable in cost.  It is..."The Hornby Companion Series , Vol 5, the Hornby Gauge O System",  Chris and Julie Graebe,  New Cavendish Books, 23 Craven Hill, London W2 3EN, Distribution ABP, North Way, Andover, Hampshire, 1985.   Now 35 years old but its a reasonably good book with excellent high quality pictures but like so many of these books the concentration is on freight wagons and the more expensive passenger sets.  Their coverage of French Hornby (1 fairly brief chapter) and export trains (1 additional brief chapter for the rest of the world including the US) is not very detailed.  One item in the book that I do find useful is a detailed appendix  giving the years of manufacture of every production item listed individually both pre and post war including sets.

Again, I want to thank you very much for responding and providing your insights. 

jhz563 :  Your posting made my morning!  I loved the idea of using the Kroil oil can as a waste bin.  The lithography on the can is first rate, colorful and the "big drop" image is just a hoot!!  Just let it "air out" for sufficient time OUTSIDE to remove the volatile components which can be a fire hazard and use a strong detergent to remove any oil film.  Sorry, I am a safety guy and worry about such things.  Great find and great idea for re-use.

Sincerely

Don McErlean

@G-Man24 posted:

Not mine, just something I spotted for sale recently and thought it was interesting . Was listed as a "Standard Gauge Frankenstein Engine" . This was probably somebody's pride and joy 80 years ago. Reminds me of the evil truck in the movie "Duel". 

 

 

 

Anybody recognize the motor assembly ? The gears are as big as the rims.

This engine was recently purchased by Clem Clement, who has a very large collection of 'home made trains'. The mechanism for this engine is actually a vintage clock mechanism, from somewhere around 1900. Who knows if it ever really ran, he is just ecstatic to own this thing.

Jim

@Jim Waterman posted:

This engine was recently purchased by Clem Clement, who has a very large collection of 'home made trains'. The mechanism for this engine is actually a vintage clock mechanism, from somewhere around 1900. Who knows if it ever really ran, he is just ecstatic to own this thing.

Jim

Jim thanks for the added info. I'm with your buddy Clem,  I think that vintage home made stuff is really neat. A lot of it was built by people who didn't have the means to purchase store bought trains.

Are you saying that the electric motor and gears in it came from an old electric clock ? If so that makes it even neater. The armature looks huge and with that gearing it would have had some serious pulling power.  

A new arrival. Seriously over packed. Good thing the sellers shipping was a fixed price. He had to have lost his shorts on this one.

Steve

@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

A new arrival. Seriously over packed. Good thing the sellers shipping was a fixed price. He had to have lost his shorts on this one.

Steve

Better to be over packed, than under packed.

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

Better to be over packed, than under packed.

That's for sure. Only cost me $35.00

Steve

You mean like this?

It’s been awhile!! Hope all is well!! Sorry haven’t been around- Health issues(non-covid related). On the mend, best I’ve felt in months. Don’t think I haven’t been keeping up with the tin though!

ill start with one I got awhile ago- J Chein Roller Coaster. Not working but an incredible deal on it. 

Side view. Also, the flag in foreground, which was my dad’s, is a 48 star flag. Just realized it when I saw it mentioned on another layout.

The red Pullman body I’ve shown before. In the background, New, is the Hafner freight depot. Some Postwar tinplate, on the left is my grandfather’s Water Tower, on theright is my water tower which I got about a week ago with box.

today in the mail- Bing interlocking. Quite an interesting piece, so i took 5 pictures of each side and the inside. Any idea what this would’ve been used for? Switches? Transformer? I haven’t really looked at it that much. This is the most “pure” lithographed side(you’ll see what I mean in the next few photos)

I really like this side, the plate with the specs. 50hz for Europe. Notice the windows are punched out(by Bing, not the previous owner)in this pocture and the next 2- I assume for cooling purposes. Also, chord clearly cut.

This side has a lever. Again some punched out windows.

the final side has what appear to be 2 ports and then something above them.

finally, the inside

Any idea what this was??? And- more to come!

@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

A new arrival. Seriously over packed. Good thing the sellers shipping was a fixed price. He had to have lost his shorts on this one.

Steve

I believe there may be a Major award in that crate!

@StevefromPA posted:

today in the mail- Bing interlocking. Quite an interesting piece, so i took 5 pictures of each side and the inside. Any idea what this would’ve been used for? Switches? Transformer? I haven’t really looked at it that much. This is the most “pure” lithographed side(you’ll see what I mean in the next few photos)

I really like this side, the plate with the specs. 50hz for Europe. Notice the windows are punched out(by Bing, not the previous owner)in this pocture and the next 2- I assume for cooling purposes. Also, chord clearly cut.

This side has a lever. Again some punched out windows.

the final side has what appear to be 2 ports and then something above them.

finally, the inside

Any idea what this was??? And- more to come!

Hi Steve its definately a Bing Power supply , probably quite rare (?) I could only find a few references to it on the web, one in a German forum .. with the following pics

http://up.picr.de/24813727gz.jpg
http://up.picr.de/24813728ey.jpg
http://up.picr.de/24813729aq.jpg

The transformer in those pics didnt have the BW ( Bing Werke) plate but a plain one , which could suggest it was made by Bing/Bub/Distler or similar Nurnberg (Nuremberg)  collaborative enterprise ... Possibly made by Bing to include in some sets made by them ?

History toy has your exact version documented '

https://www.historytoy.com/bin...way-toy-signal-tower

That one took a lot of searching lol as it was listed in the "Signalhouse " or StellWerke section

Also found one recently sold on ebay !

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Uralte...rksid=p2047675.l2557

I woulda paid that for it LOL!

StevefromPA, I love the roller coaster.  I did a bit of searching online and your Bing item appears to be a transformer in a signal box designed for a fixed voltage output of 18V and 10W.  The lever on the side is the on-off switch.  Yours appears to be a 220V input although there were versions made with 110V input as well.  I've also seen photos of a 220V version like yours with the 220 scratched out and 110V written instead.  It might be worth checking to see if the transformer primary has 2 taps.

Thanks for the other pictures @Fatman , always nice to have something to use as a reference or comparison for items old and like this one. @O Gauge Guy thanks for the roller coaster compliment. My Grandmother got the Ferris Wheel & rocket ride as presents when she was a child-barely ever played with them(they were kind of viewed as prized possessions that my great-grandmother didn't want to risk breaking). Hence, they're mint and have their boxes.

Sorry guys, Never posted these pictures of the inside of the Bing transformer, for those who are curious. 

Aerial view as shown previously:

"Rear"

"Right-hand side"- there is a mechanism above the lever that causes the white/red indicator to go back to white if in the red position.

StevefromPa / OgaugeGuy : Great finds both, but I still find it amazing that at one time the idea of a child playing with something that directly handled 220 volt power was considered OK, no big deal.  I have a reproduced copy of a Lionel instruction sheet from the days before wide spread electrification that showed youngsters how to build a battery using glass beakers and sulfuric acid!  Then in the 1970 's  we banned all tinplate toys because someone might cut their finger on an edge...there being no record of any fatal injury from a tin toy in over 100 years!  What a change!

StevefromPA:  Adding on to your roller coaster and Ferris wheel I can contribute a "Rocket Ride".  Unknown year but made in Germany, the mfr trade mark is a globe with a band around it carrying the initials "JW" plus the country of origin.  It is spring powered with the key on the side near the top of the swings.  It is very well made with great detail, down to the clothes and facial expressions on the children riding. 

Steve :  thanks again for your response on the Haffner station, I really appreciate your knowledge and your willingness to share.

Best Regards,  Happy and Healthy Week everyone (it being "blue Monday")

Don

two early birthday presents,,,,will not open till may 25th,,hummmmmmmmmmm what can they be????? bets its some standard gauge !!!!!!!

@Don McErlean posted:

StevefromPa / OgaugeGuy : Great finds both, but I still find it amazing that at one time the idea of a child playing with something that directly handled 220 volt power was considered OK, no big deal.  I have a reproduced copy of a Lionel instruction sheet from the days before wide spread electrification that showed youngsters how to build a battery using glass beakers and sulfuric acid!  Then in the 1970 's  we banned all tinplate toys because someone might cut their finger on an edge...there being no record of any fatal injury from a tin toy in over 100 years!  What a change!

StevefromPA:  Adding on to your roller coaster and Ferris wheel I can contribute a "Rocket Ride".  Unknown year but made in Germany, the mfr trade mark is a globe with a band around it carrying the initials "JW" plus the country of origin.  It is spring powered with the key on the side near the top of the swings.  It is very well made with great detail, down to the clothes and facial expressions on the children riding. 

Steve :  thanks again for your response on the Haffner station, I really appreciate your knowledge and your willingness to share.

Best Regards,  Happy and Healthy Week everyone (it being "blue Monday")

Don

You have a Wilesco Swing Gondola @Don McErlean

https://www.wilesco-shop.de/en.../swing-gondolas.html

I have seen a few of these and I think there are several different combinations of "rockets" and it depended on who was assembling them as to what combination you got

I am not sure what year Wilesco started making them but you can still buy them new .. the earlier versions of this toy had boats and were pulley driven off a Live Steam Engine as an accessory

@jhz563 posted:

Not your normal tinplate item, but too cool to pass up.  As I wrap up spring projects at work I was having crews clean up the turbine deck and I nearly had this empty 5 gallon can thrown into the recycle bin.  Fortunately I changed my mind.  Some time in the next couple weeks the top will come off of this can and I will have a really cool trash can for the train room or the shop.

Think about how cool this would look as a paint scheme for a tank car!

It would make an awesome tank farm tank, say the top half of it!  I know it is big, but it would be seriously cool!

@terry hudon posted:

two early birthday presents,,,,will not open till may 25th,,hummmmmmmmmmm what can they be????? bets its some standard gauge !!!!!!!

Quit teasing.  Call us when you open them.

@Jim O'C posted:

Picked up another 1919/1920 Turnerville Trolley today. I think I might be cornering the market on these but the bridge is an upgrade to others I already have. The spring in the launch house looks good too but I will have to borrow some straight channel track and the return spring from one of the others to test it out. 

Jim:  I recently got the front and end pieces of the Turnerville Trolley, and started to look around my misc. box for a car to try and use on it (if I used regular 0-27 track for the straight channel track I don't have).  I ran across this small unmarked heavy steel car (about 7 inches long) but also noticed (playing Sherlock Holmes here) that one end had scratches and impressions in the paint that exactly match the end return spring of the Turnerville.  Unfortunately, I don't think I can get this to work on 0-27 since the car is too narrow, but it would work with wood floor wheels if I had any channel track (I wonder what happened to all that they made originally!)  The photos are poor and don't really show the detail.

John

Judging from the trucks, I'd say you have a Kingsbury floor train passenger coach circa 1920

They also produced freight sets using Erie working gondolas. Here is a comparison of the 8-wheel coaches and Erie gondolas against original Turnerville trolleys

Fatman:  Wow thanks for the video of the Rocket Ride swing gondola.  I do remember the name "Wilesco" as part of a stationary live steam engine that I brought home from a trip to Germany many years ago with a machine shop (little miniature machines driven by a belt from the engine).  Still have that stuff "somewhere"

Don

@Fatman posted:

You have a Wilesco Swing Gondola @Don McErlean

https://www.wilesco-shop.de/en.../swing-gondolas.html

I am not sure what year Wilesco started making them but you can still buy them new .. the earlier versions of this toy had boats and were pulley driven off a Live Steam Engine as an accessory

Clicking on that video of course took me down a Wilesco Youtube rabbit hole.

This video is also pretty neat, I'm amazed at how much hand work is still involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjVilDNa8So

@Jim O'C posted:

Judging from the trucks, I'd say you have a Kingsbury floor train passenger coach circa 1920

They also produced freight sets using Erie working gondolas. Here is a comparison of the 8-wheel coaches and Erie gondolas against original Turnerville trolleys

Kingsbury Kingsbury it is, though definitely spring marks.  By the way here is my Turner beginning and end.  I tested them with a beat up American Flyer 1123 coach (also ugly to start with) and some 0-27.  Worked pretty well.  Also attaching a couple of catalog pages, one with the street car set and one with what looks like a Turner floor train.

Marshall Field Ad from 1919 showing two different versions. Larger set has a bridge and a station, trolley pole and eight sections of track.

I may have an original coach or two and maybe some more track in my collection, I'll check my inventory. There was also a #204 set w bridge and a few sections of track.

Jim:  I shall content myself with having the two essential parts of the Turnerville Trolley -- assuming the pandemic ever ends the remaining components may be found under a table at a train show.  I did set it up using the AF car and 0-27 track -- I could get the car to go 40 inches and back but not the 80 inches they advertise.  I suppose after 100 years the spring may be weakened.
  As a swansong, I mined a few ads from Newspapers.com, including the one from the Buffalo Times in Dec 1921 with, not just a trolley, but a loco, tender, and coach -- might have been interesting to watch.  The whole caboodle included a bridge, tunnel and station.  The cut was very poor, I did a little manipulation in my picture program.  Could it be the combo on the rigid frame I am also attaching?
     I wonder if anyone will ever find a box for it or the "Boy Scout Special" mentioned.

John

If I gave it it's own thread, I'd title this post A Bad Idea Executed Adequately Or, Don't Ever Buy Used Trains from The Other Guy:

On Tuesday, I started up the Blue Comet and, after moving six inches across a switch, it shudders to a stop. Power to the track was fine; no derailment; no smoke. So, I power down and back up and the loco revs up. I cycle it into forward motion and, again, six inches and then ... bupkis. This time, a proper short. 

So, I take the engine off the track, expecting to workbench it, when I hear a little tinkle on the track. I look down and, what do I see? The loco's front roller, snapped clean off the pickup. Oh ****.

Off to the workbench ... First, to see if the second roller still draws power to the motor and, indeed, the train's internals are OK. The dilemma: do I continue to run on the remaining roller or, do I order a complete motor replacement (since pickups are riveted on Tinplate Traditions trains) or, do I do something much more reckless and ... Frankensteinian?

....

You can guess what I did:

But great news: works beautifully! Ran this puppy for almost 2 hours straight yesterday and nary a blip! 

- The Other Guy

FILE: DEPARTMENT OF DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME, KIDS

@The Other Guy posted:

If I gave it it's own thread, I'd title this post A Bad Idea Executed Adequately Or, Don't Ever Buy Used Trains from The Other Guy:

On Tuesday, I started up the Blue Comet and, after moving six inches across a switch, it shudders to a stop. Power to the track was fine; no derailment; no smoke. So, I power down and back up and the loco revs up. I cycle it into forward motion and, again, six inches and then ... bupkis. This time, a proper short. 

So, I take the engine off the track, expecting to workbench it, when I hear a little tinkle on the track. I look down and, what do I see? The loco's front roller, snapped clean off the pickup. Oh ****.

Off to the workbench ... First, to see if the second roller still draws power to the motor and, indeed, the train's internals are OK. The dilemma: do I continue to run on the remaining roller or, do I order a complete motor replacement (since pickups are riveted on Tinplate Traditions trains) or, do I do something much more reckless and ... Frankensteinian?

....

You can guess what I did:

 

But great news: works beautifully! Ran this puppy for almost 2 hours straight yesterday and nary a blip! 

- The Other Guy

FILE: DEPARTMENT OF DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME, KIDS

It looks like an acceptable repair. I may have tried to smooth out that solder joint a little more.  I'm not sure how durable it will be.

Isn't that fiber board with the pickup assembly replaceable? It might require pulling the wheels on one side. I could look up the part if I knew the model number of your engine. 

George

@The Other Guy posted:

If I gave it it's own thread, I'd title this post A Bad Idea Executed Adequately Or, Don't Ever Buy Used Trains from The Other Guy:

On Tuesday, I started up the Blue Comet and, after moving six inches across a switch, it shudders to a stop. Power to the track was fine; no derailment; no smoke. So, I power down and back up and the loco revs up. I cycle it into forward motion and, again, six inches and then ... bupkis. This time, a proper short. 

So, I take the engine off the track, expecting to workbench it, when I hear a little tinkle on the track. I look down and, what do I see? The loco's front roller, snapped clean off the pickup. Oh ****.

Off to the workbench ... First, to see if the second roller still draws power to the motor and, indeed, the train's internals are OK. The dilemma: do I continue to run on the remaining roller or, do I order a complete motor replacement (since pickups are riveted on Tinplate Traditions trains) or, do I do something much more reckless and ... Frankensteinian?

....

You can guess what I did:

But great news: works beautifully! Ran this puppy for almost 2 hours straight yesterday and nary a blip! 

- The Other Guy

FILE: DEPARTMENT OF DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME, KIDS

How does it look when the engine is on the track?  

If it's durable, then it's perfect.  As Red Green would say, "it's only temporary... unless it works".

Bought this on Ebay. Came in the mail today.

Well I almost bought these if that counts. I noticed these old home made switches on Ebay and was really intrigued with the work someone had done to make them from the cutting and soldering of the rails and frogs to the wiring to the neat tin actuator housings made from cigar tins and oil cans. Seller was selling them as "Folk Art" but they sure look like real switches  to me. Don't think anybody would go to that much trouble to make "Folk Art" . Once maybe, not 6 times . 

  I don't even run O gauge but I almost bought them just because of how neat they are and to see what mechanism is hiding under those tin covers. 

Gerry,

  Yes, the are quite unique. Thanks for posting.

Tom 

@terry hudon posted:

two early birthday presents,,,,will not open till may 25th,,hummmmmmmmmmm what can they be????? bets its some standard gauge !!!!!!!

what could be a better bday present ,,,,,,the mth black diamond cars,,,,olympian diner and bacon !!

@terry hudon posted:

what could be a better bday present ,,,,,,the mth black diamond cars,,,,olympian diner and bacon !!

Beautiful set Terry! Happy Birthday!