Buying at Train Meets VS On-Line

I enjoy going to train shows because you can see what you are buying and sometimes you can test the item if it's an engine. Also can get parts at train shows if you know what you need.

I avoid ebay because people don't list stuff properly and/or don't know what they have or what size it is. Also with ebay people think because the Lionel name is on it that it is worth a huge fortune.

Some online vendors are really good like Train World or Mario's Trains for buying at a low price.

Lee Fritz

As you walk around train meets chances are you will spot something of interest to you that you would never think of looking for on eBay.

The trap with train meets is buying all kinds of stuff for that future layout that never gets built or you don.t have room for or just doesn't fit in with your layout.

That's been true more often than not, Dennis.  Good point.

I enjoy going to train shows possibly looking for my bucket list of freight cars. The up side to train shows if you find what you want you do not have to pay for shipping and your seeing it right away so you know what you are getting. I have never done the bay and for the most part have never bought anything off a for sale forum or magazine for sale columns. If over the years I had to break it down proportionately it would be 97% on line or top ten vendor and 3% from train shows............Paul

Dennis Rempel posted:

...

The trap with train meets is buying all kinds of stuff for that future layout that never gets built or you don.t have room for or just doesn't fit in with your layout.

That's actually true regardless of whether you're strolling through train show aisles or just drooling over new catalogs year-after-year. 

David

The only things I buy online is Brand new Items, Menards, or buying from Ogaugedreamer because he is a member of my club and I know what I'm gonna get from him 

I have had good luck with Ebay and buying Lionel online from good dealers (Trainworld, HobbySpeed, HobbyWorks, Model Trains&Stuff, MrMuffin, Charles Rowe).  Regarding Ebay, I wind up buying old Lionel accessories there (rotating beacon, water tower, light tower, covered bridges, etc.) and have had good luck.  I found you really have to look at the pictures closely to determine wear and condition.  Had to return only 1 item that wasn't clearly pictured but that went OK.  I have gone to a local train meet but only saw pre and post war stuff - some really worn - some not, many locos, rolling stock, many ZW transformers.

eBay all the way. Occasionally from an on-line retailer, sometimes from my LHS and rarely at a train show. I have found just about everything I have ever wanted on the bay (and that is a LOT of stuff). Like all things in life, there is some bad(nothing in life is perfect), but the good benefits FAR outweigh the very few issues that have arisen for me. There are some eBay bashers and that is their prerogative, but you severely limit yourself when you ignore a major avenue with a far reach like eBay.

Dan, I like your post.  I live in a part of the country where we have many train shows within a 2-4 hour drive.   I would rather buy a used train at a show where you can look at it and in most cases (good shows) get to test run it.  I trust my observations over somebody I do not know.  

We all have heard the stories of the big fleabay score someone made.  Yes, it does happen.  I have purchased items there.  From my observation (repair guy) I have seen more people get screwed big time from fleabay.   If you know the seller, different story.  The choice to buy or not buy is yours.   I run an add on the OGR Forum often looking to buy your INOPERATIVE shelf queens.  It is one thing to buy an engine for the correct price and fix it.  It is another issue to pay good money from fleabay expecting a good engine and have it be a bad engine.  I have seen many sad stories.  From time to time, I will sell on fleabay only after an item has run out of steam on the OGR Forum.  

I am not a fleabay basher, just some of the people who use that site to sell bad items.  Being a repair guy, I get to see a bit more of this sort of thing more often.   Like many situations in life, only you can or can not pull the trigger.

 I am very happy for the guys that do get great deals.  I purchased my current Corvette on fleabay.  My post is to reflect something I see often.  I know repair guys that will help anyone who gets stuck with a bad engine.  I have no problem directing people to them.  If your kids engine dies the day before Christmas, naturally I will help.

Unfortunately, train meets are not common here in western NC with only two locally each year. There are others 100 - 200+ miles away but rarely have the opportunity when they arise. Most of my purchases have been here on the Forum with NO unpleasantness for he most part.

I sell items on eBay from time to time and buy an occasional item without incident. Just thankful we have so many avenues!

One last point before people throw rocks at me.  I get to see many engines where it is a toss up if they were broken up in shipping or before they were shipped.  Anything I pay money for I want to have control over it.  I have seen situations where UPS, and USPS have beat the hell out of a box and it's contents.  Try filing a case with them and see how it takes you to get very PO.  Go with works for you and hopefully you may get lucky.

Sam, you are correct.  I wish everyone luck.  On the other side of the coin, I am very happy for guys/gals who do make the big score.  If they take the risk, they deserve to score.

Dan P,

   I agree with Marty Fitz on this one, I would much rather test the Engine out at a Train Show/Meet than purchase off E-Bay.  However Rolling stock is another matter, especially new rolling stock, you can get some great buys on E-Bay.    Gun Runner however is quite lucky and gets some real nice engines off E-bay at great prices, he however has the ability to fix anything he purchases that has problems.  I do not recommend purchasing Engines or DCS or Legacy equipment off E-bay, way to many chances to get burned and no factory Guarantees either.  If you want to purchase off the Net, purchase from the OGR members, right here on the OGR Forum, we have a great bunch of honest members here to deal with.

PCRR/Dave

When I initially re-entered model railroading the Train Meets were a huge help. As I have become solidified in model railroading, the Train Meets are much less helpful and sometimes even a disappointment. Seldom do I find a loco or car that I can't find significantly less expensive online. 

What keeps me coming back is more for ideas than purchasing. I know that my approach is not at all helpful for the participating vendors. Online purchasing is a negative impact on LHS as well as Train Meets.

I think there is a place for both. Online lets you find things that might not be easily available but my experience is the better deals can be found at the train shows. Getting to know people and make friends helps a lot in finding the deals at shows. Just like online there are vendors that will always be over priced but then we all see the junk boxes auctioned off for nearly nothing yet it is likely many of us have those items already. Going to shows is a hunt but if one does not like the task of looking then it es, you will be frustrated. Both serve a need but I think shows are way more fun and the better value...most of the time.

Like C.Sam train show are nonexistent in this area. You have the one in Columbia but they don't believe in selling at the shows so that's a strike out. Then the closest TCA one is like Charlotte, N.C. and for me that's like 3 or 4 hours one way. Oh I could goto Atlanta but that to is like 4 hours one way. I plan to go to York this april and see if I can handle it. I can't handle going into Wal-Mart by myself and even with the wife normally it's fine but at time it's not. ( this is derived from my PTSD. ) This will be my first time to York. 

I'm usually internet either dealers or Ebay. No real Hobby shop either around here. Closest at least 1 hour away. 

Guys,  to clear my post up,  I am only talking about engines.  Some great deals on passenger cars can be had on fleabay.  Any rolling stock for that matter.

I buy a lot of used stuff: clothes, computers, audio equipment, cars, jewelry and trains. I'm careful about who I buy from but it's a game to me if I can land exactly what I need at a good price. For example, Polo shirts are expensive but you can find them used in groups of 3 or 4 for $20 - 30. New cars depreciate at a huge pace the first two or three years but there are tons of 3 year old cars on the market with 20k miles on them at 2/3 of the original selling price. And a used Lenovo Thinkpad, even if it is 5 years old, will be just as fast as a new one...and you'll pay 25% of it's original cost.

The same is true with our trains. If they receive even reasonable care from their original buyers they will last for many years... so why buy new when you can get it for half price. 

The last Keurig coffee maker I bought was $25 on ebay. Have you priced a new one? ...$125 -150. I've had it for a little over 2 years and it's still working every day.

Do I buy anything new? Of course, but I didn't retire at 55 without pinching a penny on used stuff that met our needs. Just my two cents worth.

Bill

Train Meets are just a lot more fun!

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

One last point before people throw rocks at me.  I get to see many engines where it is a toss up if they were broken up in shipping or before they were shipped.  Anything I pay money for I want to have control over it.  I have seen situations where UPS, and USPS have beat the hell out of a box and it's contents.  Try filing a case with them and see how it takes you to get very PO.  Go with works for you and hopefully you may get lucky.

Sam, you are correct.  I wish everyone luck.  On the other side of the coin, I am very happy for guys/gals who do make the big score.  If they take the risk, they deserve to score.

Marty I'm not going to throw rocks at you. You, as well as everyone else are entitled to your opinions. I will just relate my experiences so everyone knows where I'm coming from. I have over 1500 feedbacks on the bay. All but less than a dozen of those transactions were purchases. Of those purchases, I would guess that there were less a few dozen over a 15+ year period that had issues. Most of the sellers worked with me to get the issues corrected. Very few times did I come out on the bad side of a deal. I don't think that is a bad average. In the end I wound up with the items I was looking for and I did it right here at my computer. It isn't about finding a deal, but rather finding what I want. Many of the items I purchased would not be considered "deals", but rather purchases of things that I was looking for and weren't available anywhere else. IMO eBay is a collectors paradise, but as with anything in life it isn't perfect.

Back in the stone ages when I first ventured into operating and collecting toy and model trains the only games in town were the local hobby shops and train meets/shows.  Living in South Jersey and being in close proximity to Philadelphia and southeastern Pennsylvania there were hobby shops and shows aplenty.  Unfortunately, as time has passed so have many of the hobby shops that I haunted.  Additionally, the quality of many of the local train shows, with the exception of York and Allentown, has markedly declined.  Thankfully internet sales came along via the various auction sites, Ebay being one of them, and took up the slack. 

I always enjoyed going to the train shows because I loved the exciting atmosphere and always got a kick out of seeing and handling so many trains.  Over the last forty years I have bought a lot of train stuff at shows and have had no complaints about my purchases.  That being said, with the advent of internet sales the amount of motive power, rolling stock and accessories that I now have access to far exceeds what was and still is available to me at train shows and hobby shops.  My overall experience with ebay and other auction sites has been just as favorable as my experience with hobby shops and train shows.  I try to be as meticulous and painstaking as possible when buying via the net and so far my conservative approach has served me well.  I can't say that I have walked away with a ton of great bargains because only one comes to mind  but all in all I think I have fared somewhat better than I would have at train shows.  The bottom line is that  today you have a large portion of this planet from which to select the items you want and that far exceeds what you might see at shows and hobby shops.  The key word I think in both personal and internet purchases is caution.  

There is no question that today I buy more on the net than I do at shows but if the day ever arrives and I don't attend York and Allentown someone will find me at the local graveyard.  I still love train shows.  

I only go to the local train show twice a year, primarily HO vendors and some post war Lionel, MTH and  Williams engines and cars, and N Scale engines and cars.  Engine test tract for three rail, two rail HO and two rail N Scale, dealers local Wisconsin, Michigan , Illinois and Indiana, overall fair pricing and prices negotiable. I have sold engines and cars to some of these vendors no issues, since most of my cars are O scale, Weaver, AtlasO and Intermountain they are not usually seen at this show, I purchase generally on e-bay so far online dealers no issue, packaging and delivery okay strictly on freight car purchases, assembled and kits.  

A lot of what l would say has been said above .  Train shows WERE gold mines when l got back in three rail .  Last two Yorks l bought nothing.  I once hit three train shows the same day around Cleveland . There are shows this weekend near Cleveland, but it was zero degrees this morning and the Interstate was snowblocked south of there a couple of days ago. Much easier sitting in my chair squinting at eBay .  However,  my last two eBay tries to get an engine for a set were hassles....first, seller canceled auction, second, seller had difficulty with English and seemed unknowledgeable, so l ,and nobody else, bid.  In the years l have been on ebay, l have bought a whole lot more there than l have even seen that l wanted in shows attended during that same period.

I prefer train shows as i can see for the most part what i'm buying i do frequent ebay and have bought some decent postwar lionel items and post and pre war marx items once in a while an engine is not up to my expectations but mostly they are decent with some better than expected like a marx cv recently purchased that looks almost new .

I do not get into bidding wars i set a price in mind and if it exceeds it i move on.A few times i have gotten lucky for example a divorce sale where a lady was selling a proto 2 gp rock island.

She stated her husband bought it new and barely ran it when i messaged her about the chrono she did not know what that was, i did get it for a very very good price .

It only had several hours on it when i checked it and everything works great it , it has the 3 volt board and i installed a bcr in it.

But as mentioned the train shows are nice cause i can see it instead of a picture on ebay.

Marty says he 's not a " fleabay basher "...then what the h*** does fleabay mean?

Bob

Slang for eBay.

There are two train stores in our area, one in Roseville 45 minutes and one in Yuba City which is 1 1/2 hours away and they both charge full retail so I can buy on line and not pay sales tax and get a far better deal.Today I went to the Great Train Show in Sacramento and paid $18 for parking and entry and got some great deals on scale cars and parts,i left very happy and this is our only show that we have all year in this region.

Miky

I love train shows. You get to give the seller the "stink eye" if the negotiation doesn't go well!! 

I have to agree with Marty as well. After going to my first York event back in April 2016 I now do believe it is the best deals on this planet. However you do get some go deal on the internet as well and I have also burned on the internet as well.  The internet is a mixed bag so "buyer beware".  One big bonus at the event/show is that the after market folks are also there and you can purchase parts for repairs and modifications the big bonce is no shipping cost or min order. You will also find that the prices are lower at some of the shows.

I'm fortuntate that there are several nice trainshows/meets each year in Raleigh. There is always a booth where you can test a loco. I prefer to buy my motive power in person at the shows, but I do buy rolling stock on eBay from time to time.

gg1man posted:

Train Meets are just a lot more fun!

They are the best. Still feel like a little kid going to the shows... problem is I never find anything I need locally. York is the way to go. Great company, Great food, and a fantastic show....

Now if I want to find something elusive, than the bay seems to have it.

For me it is a case of the time avalible.  Train shows are great for socializing and as others note you can see things in person before you buy, but it takes time to travel to them, and often hard for me to get away.

I have had good experiences buying all types of train goods on line, and in many case I found things I don't see at shows.  Good deals are great, but that is not what drives me, finding what I like in a reasonable time is.

I have purchased engines from sponsors, eBay and at York. I have not bought any engines from the forum but have acquired rolling stock and accessories. Relative to engines, eBay RS-3 sound stopped working after 1 day and seller offered to buy it back or refund partial pay, sponsor bought PE FT engine roller pin broke off after 1 Christmas season and I fixed it myself v sending back, and bought a PE whistle steam engine at York in Oct that was "old stock new item" except back home whistle doesn't smoke and engine wobbles like a drunken hooker. Point being no matter where I buy engines something about it craps out. I have 5 engines (3 Lionel and 2 MTH) bought from sponsors that work as advertised and don't have broken parts.  5 that work amend 5 others with issues from sound to smoke (lack there of) to wobble to haunted uncoupling. Pitiful really for the cost paid on some of these items.

In 2 years I've purchased a little more than 100 pieces of rolling stock. Probably an even split between eBay, York or Amherst events, and new online (Ro, Pats, Sidetrack, Gryboski - all great!) with a couple of forum purchases. No problems with anything. As it should be.

Thinking about it, I love buying anywhere I can. 

Living in what I call a 3 rail wasteland, my taste in trains has far exceeded what can be found on local seller's tables. I stopped going years ago. Local hobby stores have no trains that I want either.

For used and new old stock, I do shop eBay and the forum. For current production, I have a few dealers I buy from, all forum sponsors by coincidence. I've been buying from one of them long before the forum existed, back to before the internet started.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Dan P,

   I agree with Marty Fitz on this one, I would much rather test the Engine out at a Train Show/Meet than purchase off E-Bay.  However Rolling stock is another matter, especially new rolling stock, you can get some great buys on E-Bay.    Gun Runner however is quite lucky and gets some real nice engines off E-bay at great prices, he however has the ability to fix anything he purchases that has problems.  I do not recommend purchasing Engines or DCS or Legacy equipment off E-bay, way to many chances to get burned and no factory Guarantees either.  If you want to purchase off the Net, purchase from the OGR members, right here on the OGR Forum, we have a great bunch of honest members here to deal with.

PCRR/Dave

While I agree with 99% of what you wrote, I would just point out that however great the members here are in general, the "no guarantees" part would apply here just as it does to eBay (more so if anyone does the "friends and family" payment on PayPal since that by definition is not a transaction for goods underPayPal's rules).  Any second hand purchases are generally not waranteed by the manufacturer/importer, no matter what venue the transaction is completed (same for train shows - but you see the item in person there before buying). 

The exception would be if you buy something from a sponsor or member who is an actual authorized retail establishment and the item is within the period for which the manufacturer is willing to provide a warranty.  A receipt for such a transaction would then cover you if you need to seek service for a problem.

So to the original poster's question - my preference is generally for in person at train meets.  I've bought stuff on-line (as recently as this week, but it was a cheap piece of rolling stock), but I'm more of a believer in seeing it in person and not having shipping abuse be a risk (or defense for those on-line who are less than honest : "it must have gotten scratched/dented, etc. due to shipping - take it up with the carrier").  For PW items, assuming you are not buying mint examples of rare items, maybe it doesn't matter as much.  YMMV.

Then again, I'm spoiled because I live in Southeast PA.  I have York only 2 hours away twice a year, and also Allentown (hour drive) in November and February, along with a bunch of smaller meets within an hour drive if I care to try them.  If I lived somewhere like others have posted where I need to drive 2-4 hours to get to a small meet or a full MSRP LHS, it's not happening.

-Dave

I sometimes sell items on ebay, and if it is an engine, I post a video of it running on Vimeo.com so that the buyer can see that it truly works.  For instance, right now I have a Lionel 2055 for sale that you can see here:

Lionel 2055 engine

The NY metro area used to be the place to be for train shows IMO. As far as I am concerned these days there just aren't any that are worth the admission. Pennsylvania has become the only place near me to find a decent show - again IMO.  However the 2 to 4 hour drive for any of the shows makes all but Allentown and York practical. Even then, as I walk around York and Allentown having saved up money for the event only to find myself thinking as I walk the aisles that I can't wait to get home and get back on eBay.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Slang for eBay.

You completely missed his point.  He knew exactly what fleabay stands for.

While I agree with 99% of what you wrote, I would just point out that however great the members here are in general, the "no guarantees" part would apply here just as it does to eBay (more so if anyone does the "friends and family" payment on PayPal since that by definition is not a transaction for goods under PayPal's rules). 

Nice way to put it

At least with EBay you have recourse.
Here you have none.
Board rules prohibit even mentioning problems here, and the board is very clear about providing absolutely no dispute resolution.

If I didn't do all my own work, I think I'd be very careful about purchasing any trains on the secondary market unless there was some sort of guarantee.

At train shows with test tracks items can be checked out before purchase.
When I am selling, I encourage genuinely interested people to try out anything I have for sale. So far I haven't lost a sale.

I prefer buying in-person, as the item can be examined and tested.  The downside of train shows is that too many vendors are still in denial regarding current values.  They just can't accept the fact that the MIB T-1 or B6 that they paid $1000 for in 1990 is only worth $250 - 300, or that their scratched and battery damaged postwar F3s aren't worth $500 anymore.  At least on ebay, a seller is going to learn the true value of such items pretty quickly.