Cab 1 not working

Bill, the answer is easy. Once again- attention to details is required.

You bought a LEGACY Powermaster. This device gets the command signal from the 455KHz transmitted by a Legacy or TMCC Base.

You then bought or have a CAB1 grey remote with the pull out style antenna that transmits 27MHz.

You need to follow the instructions that came with your Legacy Powermaster to use it with your Legacy system (Cab2 and matching Legacy Base) https://www.lionelsupport.com/...EGACYPowerMaster.pdf

Again, here appears to be the detail you missed:

The OLD TMCC Powermaster 6-24130 directly got it's command signal from the CAB1 remote on 27MHz.

When Lionel made Legacy components like the Legacy Powermaster, it now gets it's command signal from the base track frequency system on 455KHz just like engines. Again, no longer does it get the signal direct from the remote, it must go through a base.

In order for your CAB1 to work, you must have a matching TMCC Base to receive the 27MHz remote signal and then transmit that command back out on 455KHz (assuming you didn't already have Legacy Base and CAB2). The other option is the included Y cable that comes with the Legacy CAB2 set, that connects the serial data port of the TMCC base, to the Legacy base- allowing both remote systems (CAB1 on 27MHz, CAB2 and CAB-1L Blue remote on 2.4GHz). Whatever you do, do not connect both TMCC Base and Legacy base to the track at the same time. You should only connect the Legacy base post to the track, and the TMCC base should be connected to the system via the serial port Y cable only.

Again, either you meant to buy a TMCC Powermaster- http://www.lionel.com/products...powermaster-6-24130/

or

You need a TMCC base 6-12911- connected to your Legacy base with the Y cable

or

Right now, you have to use your CAB2 and Legacy Base to program and operate that Legacy Powermaster.

Again Bill, researching your previous posts, I know you to have a Legacy CAB2 and Legacy base from this topic.

https://ogrforum.com/...8#177257758121394828

You added a CAB1 grey remote, and a Legacy Powermaster.

Do you have a TMCC Base that came with the CAB1 remote as a set?

Do you then also have the TMCC Base connected to the Legacy base, with the Y cable that came with the Legacy set?

Why did you not just follow the Legacy Power Master instructions, and program your Legacy powermaster and control it using your Legacy CAB2 remote?

Totally different approach- you have a Z4000 as your source transformer. An alternate solution would have been to buy the matching MTH Z4000 remote set with receiver and you would have 2 variable channels remotely controlled right out of the Z4000.

https://mthtrains.com/40-4001

Searching for Z4000 remote on the popular auction site had a fair amount of ones listed right now today. In fact Forum sponsor Trainz is one of them.

Hello Vernon, I certainly appreciate your trying to get me straightened out.  I am still confused but beginning to get the idea. I had an older cab 1 setup with both the gray control box and a gray hand held controller with the antenna and big red dial. I then disconnected that system and implemented a Legacy system which while I still struggle  with it, I can make it operate my legacy and TMCC engines. From a previous post it was suggested I purchase a Lionel PowerMaster no.6-37146. It did not come with a cable of any sort. From what you have told me, I need a cable to connect this base to the legacy base as my next step. The control then comes from the legacy hand held controller if I'm understanding. So my next mission is to purchase a y cable. I also don't want the two systems connected to the track at the same time. Which system gets connected to the track?

As an alternative, you are telling me I can buy the MTH hand held controller and accomplish the same thing.

Another question: Again working with things people tell me, is it possible to run engines both on Legacy/TMCC and cab 1 or the MTH system at the same time? Or does having the cab 1 system just allow one engine to run  by itself?

Thanks again for your help. Bill Park

@Bill Park posted:

Hello Vernon, I certainly appreciate your trying to get me straightened out.  I am still confused but beginning to get the idea.

I had an older cab 1 setup with both the gray control box and a gray hand held controller with the antenna and big red dial. Correct, this system is a "pair" the remote talks on 27Mhz AM hence the big pull out antenna, and the base, with it's 1 wire post, transmits the 455KHz TMCC signal to engines and other accessories that receive TMCC.

I then disconnected that system and implemented a Legacy system which while I still struggle  with it, I can make it operate my legacy and TMCC engines.

From a previous post it was suggested I purchase a Lionel PowerMaster no.6-37146. It did not come with a cable of any sort. Correct, it was meant to be powered by a Lionel Powerhouse 180 Watt "brick", although there are cables which you bought to feed power from a different transformer (your Z4000). Key here- there is NO other cable or wire. There is no serial port or other connection on a Powermaster. Instead- this specific one receives the same 455KHz radio signal from a Legacy or TMCC Base just like an engine.

From what you have told me, I need a cable to connect this base (Your old TMCC CAB1 Base) to the legacy base as my next step. The control then comes from the legacy hand held controller if I'm understanding. No, technically the command comes from the remote and then through the base. So my next mission is to purchase a y cable (No, this cable came standard with your LEGACY 990 set- check your 990 set box). I also don't want the two systems connected to the track at the same time. Which system gets connected to the track? The Legacy base as you have right now- the 1 wire post to your common outside rail of the track. The TMCC base will only have the serial Y cable and the power adapter plugged into it- nothing on the 1 wire post.

Page 8 of the Legacy manual covers this https://www.lionelsupport.com/...s/LCS-Manual-152.pdf

Just like the previous picture I posted- note they omitted the AC power adapters in these drawings but both units still need their respective power plug adapters.

As an alternative, you are telling me I can buy the MTH hand held controller and accomplish the same thing. By same thing, I mean a way to remotely control and vary track voltage - AKA "Conventional Control" and also,  conventional bell and whistle buttons via remote- but more importantly- be able to do that on both channels of the Z4000.

Another question: Again working with things people tell me, is it possible to run engines both on Legacy/TMCC and cab 1 or the MTH system at the same time? Yes, all 3 systems can be operational at the same time. The CAB1 is received by the matching old TMCC base, then sent across the Y serial cable to the Legacy base, which then transmits the commands to the track. The CAB2 remote talks to the Legacy base, which again transmits the commands out to the track and engines. MTH DCS sends it's signal to engines embedded within the track power coming out of the TIU channels. Even more complicated, that same Y serial data cable along with an MTH adapter cable, can connect all 3 systems at the command serial data level.

Or does having the cab 1 system just allow one engine to run  by itself? Cab1 is just a remote sending TMCC commands. Those commands have to be received by "something" (typically a TMCC command Base). Alternatively, A CAB1 remote can directly control the older TMCC Powermaster without a base- giving a way for oldschool conventional train owners to remotely control postwar style trains.

Thanks again for your help. Bill Park

Hey Vernon, Can I buy you a case of beer or something for all this help. I think my basic problem is I am just learning what each system can do.  My layout is a very long loop of track with passing sidings and block control. It takes 10 minutes for a train at a reasonable speed to cover the entire mainline. Running Legacy and TMCC engines works fine. But since its one long run of track with reverse loops on each end, from what I am learning, I could maybe run a train on a  different loop with  legacy and cab 1, but I don't think from what I am gathering, I can run both systems on the same loop at the same time. So basically what I want to do is run my conventional and MTH engines with some sort of hand held control. But to do that, I have to decide whether it will be a Legacy/TMCC engine or a conventional or MTH engine.  I think I understand its one or the other on a given loop of track. Am I on the right track?  Much obliged for all your help. Bill

You can try anything, and maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. I mean it's not against the law, it's not going to blow something up, buuuuut....

Running in command mode with lesser variable voltage on the track is not ideal, can cause issues, and some more modern recent locos might throw fault codes for motor stall.

You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd, you can't drive around with a tiger in your car........

These are all just suggestions.

Hi Vernon. I understand they are suggestions and I thank you for the help.  Bill