Can I adjust scale MPH?

GGG,

Seems like you're getting your Lionel and MTH mixed up! I asked for public DCS codes and the format of MTH sound files so I could create an editor for myself and others to use.

Bottom Line:

Software is often a solution to our issues.

Barry has provided us with examples of his theories of how to run a business.

I explained that I would be very interested in MTH codes to develop software and edit sound files, both of which have been asked for on the OGR forum for years.

Jon, a valid representative of Lionel, gave us some insight as to the Lionel point of view on such things.

Barry, a DCS Ambassador, told us all why we are wrong to expect MTH to provide what Lionel does.

GRJ, myself, and Ron did a fine job of explaining to Barry why he was wrong in some of his statements.

Barry's response "Baloney", etc., etc.... it's OK... just Barry being Barry!

In an attempt to terminate this particular beating of a very dead horse, I'm out of this thread.  I maintain hope that at some point, MTH will share some of the basic info that would allow use to do more with our trains.  No one complains when someone modifies a companys' buildings, adds details or changes the paint job on an engine, but when someone into computers want to discuss fully-reversible software tinkering, or a software fix suggestion it's always a challenge to discuss without superfluous business theory brought into the conversation.

Your suggestion to the original poster may be the best, "lash 'em up with a rope!"

Ed

Eugene,

David K. is Dave Krebiehl, MTH VP R&D. He is very much alive and well, and working for MTH at their R&D headquarters in Michigan.

Ed,

Barry, an DCS Ambassador, told us all why we are wrong to expect MTH to provide what Lionel does.

I don't think so. Let's be clear...

i stated that it's unlikely in the extreme that MTH would modify their PS3 engine software to allow changing of the DCS speed parameters by an operator.

I also stated that it's also unlikely that MTH would distribute a mechanism to allow one to modify engine sound files.

Lionel does not provide either of these facilities, and have not, to my knowledge, ever hinted at doing so in the future.

GRJ, myself, and Ron did a fine job of explaining to Barry why he was wrong in some of his statements.

On the contrary, no one did any kind of a job of explaining that I was wrong. Rather, others presented their own differing points of view, most more politely than did you.

 I'm out of this thread.

Good news!

Sorry you are leaving Ed, but it seems to me (and I may be wrong) that you are asking more of MTH, then what Lionel has done even with providing some of the TMCC and Legacy protocols.  So I think I have them straight.

There is a lot more Lionel software that has not been released.  None of the software in the engine boards or sound boards.  Each model has it's own board and part number so I believe this is code specific for the model.  They have not provided any of the Legacy Software 1.40, 1.50 code.  So you can't write your own Legacy base code (Someone correct me if this is wrong).

Lionel seems to be allowing more freedom to create apps and programs that can talk and tell a Legacy base what to do, but nothing that allows you to do what you are asking MTH to do.

MTH is choosing to pick the group they allow to create an app and therefore have more control of the quality and marketing of the product.  Seems fair enough to me.  Though I imagine Lionel will have license right and control for anything marketed.

You don't have Lionel RS code nor can you change sounds with out buying it.  You don't have Legacy base code nor is it available.

What you have is the code that allows you to communicate with a Legacy base.  Not the ability to change it's capability.

Which is why I think others miss the big picture, especially when they extrapolate to a later in the years scenario.

If Lionel and MTH went out of business today.  I think I can keep a MTH engine running long after a Lionel owner would be in a bind because he could not get the exact same VL BB board to get his engine running again.  I could get any MTH engine running with pretty much any PS-2 or 3 board and the sound file saved on my computer.  As long as TIU and Legacy was available the trains could still run.  Once the bases are gone the trains stop running in command for both companies at this point.  Until some one reverse engineers the bases and the code.   G

 A very easy thing to try....

Put a short piece of black tape on the flywheel of the slower engine. Just cover a stripe or two. See if that fixes the problem. A sharpie works too but it's harder to remove.

My son was having some fun tonight and I thought this was timely to post.  Now granted, these two would never get lashed up... But why is there such a difference in SMPH between the two?  Both are MTH P2.0.

Ron

I was not thinking that you would need a 20mph fix, just 1 to 3.  Something is amiss there.  My PCC runs pretty close to my other trains.

BB

Ron, How old is the PCC car?  I must admit I don't know if the scale speed applies to a Trolley.  I imagine 2 trolleys would move together, but they might not match to a RK or Premier Diesel just because of the function/size difference.  So that might be apples to oranges.

Or if MTH did mean them to have the same speed there can be a issue with the tach reader or flywheel stripes.  If the tach reader misses stripe counts it thinks the engine is going slower than it really is so it increases speed to get the correct count to match the order.  In this case the engine is much faster than the ordered speed.  G 

Well it is new... but old.  My son received it this Christmas brand new.  But I see from MTH this was made back in 2000.

I just thought it was interesting.  We are building a trolly line with some street running, so I don't think this will get in the way of our double mains. 

Ron

Ron,

 I keep kicking a dead horse also. I have two boards that just got their speed whacked by something. I blamed DCS version 4.3. I have no proof or clue what actually is to blame. I'm waiting for more evidence from others to figure out what is going on.

I'm so upset because one of them is in an engine I searched for and paid a premium for. It ran great until a bad day when the speed was thrown.

 ...Was the faster trolley always that far off?

....Which one matches other PS engine's speeds? (trolley fast or diesel slow?)

....and of course as G eluded, do the MTH trolleys match up on other's layouts?

Ooops, I see you posted back now.

The trolly is the fast engine and the only one we have that performs like this.  We have had it since Christmas and it has run this way out of the box.   All of our other MTH engines behave as directed and are probably withing that 1 or 2 percent everyone was talking about.

As previously noted our two GG-1's don't like double heading either.  I can't do a video of that right now as GGG is fixing one of them.

Ron

Ron,

Early PS2 flywheel tapes were made of paper and it may be the cause of the problem. I had to replace a few of mine to correct the problem when the tapes started peeling off. The engine got going faster each time some peeled away.

The new tapes are made of vinyl I believe and hold up much better.

I use the ALL feature and adjust the speed of the faster or slower engine. This works for me

Scale MPH should be scale MPH for any stock factory locomotive.  If that's not the case, then the scale MPH on the display is pretty worthless.

FWIW, earlier I noted that we saw the same issue with two stock ProtoSound 2 engines, and one of them isn't a trolley!  The Premier Reading Trainmaster was way faster than either a stock RK VO-1000 or my Premier DC3.

John,

The Premier Reading Trainmaster was way faster than either a stock RK VO-1000 or my Premier DC3

The Trainmaster most likely needs attention in one of several areas.

There's a whole section regarding what to look at in The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition, pages 170-171.

After the physical stuff that can increase speed (damaged or faded timing tape, porous painted timing stripes,damaged or poorly-spaced tach reader), I'd see if there's newer sound file for the engine with more accurate speed control parameters.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Agree, but is the Trolley really 1/48?  G

Truthfully, I don't see this as germane to the discussion.  If MTH is going to represent an MPH figure on the remote, any factory stock O-gauge product that uses PS2/3 should run at the same speed for the same setting.  Otherwise, I don't see the point or the benefit of the scale MPH reading.  Lionel manages the same speed for any Legacy locomotive at the same remote setting.  I have a couple of LionMaster non-scale locomotives and some scale stuff as well.  I can run them on the same track with the #99 (ALL) setting and they run at the same speed, which is what I would expect.

Sheesh John. We are discussing the few engines that are not running perfect. I have a lot of their engines. They run the exact speed. One out of a hundred doesn't. Two more just got scrambled, but they did run the exact before this incident.

 How some problem gets addressed is up to the company. Changing the whole system , is up to them. Comparing your favorite, that doesn't even have true speed represented, and claiming it's superior, is just kicking dirt.

 I'm pretty sure that Lionel didn't have any decent speed representation, until they released Legacy. How Legacy was developed, and the number of out of spec engines of theirs, does not need to be discussed here. Why would you bring this into the discussion?? Truthfully? why?

 You know, that people here always pick on Barry for his attitude, etc. They claim he's stubborn. A lot of these exact people seem to be your followers. I have to draw the line here and finally, publicly, say I am not a fan of yours. It's becoming clear that I never will be. Why you comment under the MTH posts that Lionel is superior, is just beyond my comprehension.  I guess I need to block your comments now, so I don't get upset over these things.

 I could now trash Lionel for several reasons. I have a list. I prefer to comment on the positives of theirs. Great service, etc. But this is not the post to do this or the right time. See how this is done John???
 

You do what you must Joe.  I was merely using that as an example, I have plenty of gripes about Lionel stuff too.  My point, which you obviously missed, was that scale MPH should be the same for any PS2/3 O-scale product.  MTH touts this as a major selling feature, I simply believe that it should work.  There are enough examples mentioned where it seems not to perform as described to wonder why.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to bust on Barry in your rant...

Sorry, I must not have been clear?

I think the people here should be telling you, that you are the stubborn ...one.

Lionel doesn't have defective items? They shouldn't revamp their entire system because of this???

Plenty enough??

John,

Did you miss my post to you yesterday? I'm reproducing it below:

John,

 

The Premier Reading Trainmaster was way faster than either a stock RK VO-1000 or my Premier DC3

The Trainmaster most likely needs attention in one of several areas.

 

There's a whole section regarding what to look at in The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition, pages 170-171.

 

After the physical stuff that can increase speed (damaged or faded timing tape, porous painted timing stripes,damaged or poorly-spaced tach reader), I'd see if there's newer sound file for the engine with more accurate speed control parameters.

 

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Your Trainmaster is simply out of spec as regards its speed. Have you taken any steps to correct the engine before trashing MTH's speed control?

Just for the record, I have 95 PS2/PS3 engines on the layout at present. They all run within + or - 3% of each other at 30 SMPH. I can lashup any of them together and they'll run just fine.

By the way, this includes 11 subways sets and a trolly (can't lashup the trolly, no couplers ).

That's the way I presumed it should work Barry, I'm glad to hear that's the case.  I haven't had a chance to look at the Trainmaster, it's a club member that hasn't been there recently.  I did plan on taking a look at the tach tape and spacing when there's a chance to do so.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Barry,

    Guns is letting true engineering get in the way of a good time again, however I agree with him, no matter the entity, the MPH should be very close to the same, with a plus or minus factor, other wise none of this MTH engineering is correct, and I believe it actually is correct.

PCRR/Dave