Can tubular old school track look "better"

Many people use the rubber ties manufactured by hobby suppliers such as 3R Plastics in Spring Grove, IL. They are held in place by the track itself, especially when the track is attached to the layout by screws, tacks, nails or an adhesive, such as glue. I use it on my layout, all of which is traditional tubular rail.

Here's a thread with more information:

https://ogrforum.com/t...-model-railroad-ties

The most effective way to improve it is replace it with GarGraves. If that truly isn't an option, and IF you feel it is imperative to add ties and such, you're soon going to find that the cost of doing so en mass will become significant if you intend to purchase commercially manufactured product(s).

The other option is making the ties yourself, and that will involve some money (purchasing the needed wood), and some significant time as well. (Ripping, cutting to length, staining, etc.)

Best of luck whatever you decide!

Thx guys.  Gargraves is expensive - the whole reason I am looking at this.  Not quite as expensive as Atlas, but almost.  I do not mind adding time to the project, but dollars is an issue.

Every link given for the 3R ties (I have run across it a couple of times) leads to a blog.  Seems like that company is perhaps gone?  Or hiding what they manufacture and working through distys only.

http://www.3r-plastics.com/

Is there another place to get those ties?

Other suggestions?

Laming,

did you mean Gargraves tinplate?  Or the fancy stuff?    I did not know Gargraves made tinplate, seems to be tubular, like Lionel traditional but I just ran across some.

I went to Home Depot years ago and bought some molding strips the perfect width for ties (for 027). Cut them to proper length after painting them and then Gooped them on. Looks great and was cheap.

Roger

Have a look at what "Frank 53" did with old school track!  You wont find him on here now but a search of other forums will bring up pics of his layout and the way he did his track

You can look at any of the old books and magazines that were focused on "O" gauge model railroading with Lionel trains.
Add ties, ballast the track, and paint the sides of the rails.

Someone mentioned rubber ties. Back in the day, at least one company made stained wooden ties. They came in two sizes: one for "O" track, and another for "027" track.
There was rubber roadbed available for "S" gauge track. I am not certain whether it was made for "O" or "027" track too. The stuff was thick, the tops of the ties were flush with the top of the roadbed when it was assembled.

Any layouts I have built were done with Lionel track: 027, O or Super O. I like the stuff just fine.

I did something totally different when I changed the "look" of my tubular track. I wanted it for my old pre-war trains. I bought gray indoor/outdoor carpeting, cut it in strips about 5/8" wide(I think) and laid them in between the rails. Works great. Hides the ties and helps quiet the track. For repairs just pull it out and put back when finished.  I cut the carpet on a piece of Homosote using a strip of wood as a straight edge. Used  carpet knife. Takes some time but not hard. Not too expensive either. Mine has been down over a year now. I tried extra ties but they looked too cluttered.

hlfritz posted:

I am wondering if the old school Lionel, etc. track can have the look "improved".  I put improved in quotes because I know that is subjective; some people really like the look as is.  Specifically I am wondering if there is a method to add more ties to get a bit closer to realism.

 

You can make them as I did yourself,  its easy and cheap.  Go to a good hobby shop or craft store and buy 1/2" x 1/4" basswood strips. Its the perfect size for  tubular track as it matches the track ties and fits tight under the rails.   Usually sold in 2' or  3' lengths.  Use a razor snip and cut to 2" pieces yielding 12 or 18 pieces.   Then drop them in a bucket of dark brown or black stain, not paint.    You'll need 4 pieces per track.

Joe   

I found 3R plastics ties on amazon.com a few minutes ago. Try them.

I have used 3R Plastic ties before but don't know what the website is as I have not bought any in over 5 years. You buy the ties by 100 in a bag, they have 027, O gauge track and S gauge track ties the last I know of.

Just tried a search for the 3Rplastic website and got anything but 3R plastic.

Lee Fritz

hlfritz posted:

 

Every link given for the 3R ties (I have run across it a couple of times) leads to a blog.  Seems like that company is perhaps gone?  Or hiding what they manufacture and working through distys only.

http://www.3r-plastics.com/

Is there another place to get those ties?

Other suggestions?

This is the link I found for them. However, I could not find the link that used to show their model rr ties. I don't know if that means that they are out of the model rr business. 

http://threerplastics.com/

I would just give them a call. I haven't dealt with them for 4  years or so. By the way, I think the 500 black ties I bought cost about 80 dollars, and there was no shipping charge, as I called in the order on a Monday and picked it up at their shop on Tuesday. They are about 15 miles from me.

jay jay posted:

hlfritz posted:

 

Every link given for the 3R ties (I have run across it a couple of times) leads to a blog.  Seems like that company is perhaps gone?  Or hiding what they manufacture and working through distys only.

http://www.3r-plastics.com/

Is there another place to get those ties?

Other suggestions?

This is the link I found for them. However, I could not find the link that used to show their model rr ties. I don't know if that means that hey are out of the modell rr busines. 

http://threerplastics.com/

I would just give them a call. I haven't dealt with them for 4  years or so.

Just tried that website and it is medical products. Maybe 3R went out of business?

Lee Fritz

Lee, I don't know if they're out of business, but I am curious enough that I think I will give them a call during business hours to find out. The second link above is the company, an injection molding company.

By the way, another source would be E Bay...search for "model railroad ties" and you get a number of hits.

These 2 links seem to work:

http://threerplastics.com/?s=railroad&x=0&y=0

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=n...alistic+railro%2Caps

I made my own also, but I used 1/4" x 3/4" x 96" solid pine window screen molding  I got at Home Depot. 

 

Here is what it looks like cut and painted on the layout.  

 

Joe Rampolla posted:

These 2 links seem to work:

 

http://threerplastics.com/?s=railroad&x=0&y=0

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=n...alistic+railro%2Caps

 

 

 

Thanks for the links, Joe!

Joe,

That looks like paydirt, thx!

All,

I said I am going to do some unusual stuff: this will be an outdoor layout.  I can already hear it (and have been through it already), so please do not tell me NOT to do so.  So perhaps I should have said so up top, but my ties will need to be somewhat outdoor proof - weather and UV.  Now I live in east county San Diego, so water is not an issue as it does not rain much at all here.  Hot sun is.  So I will get with the 3R folks and see if their plastic ties are UV resistant.  Otherwise I am leaning towards Red Cedar, possibly even untreated (turns a silver-grey color).

I also need to protect the rails since they are steel (is that correct?).  Back in the day I know there used to be some rustoleum product(s) that would even coat/adsorb current rust and make it paintable.  I will be doing BPRC, so I do not need power in the rails at all (I will also remove the center rail) so that is not a concern - I can let the rolling stock wheels polish the top of the rails just as in the real thing while the rest is painted (red-brown perhaps).

Thoughts?  Other methods you might do if you were nuts enough to do this?

Also, as a couple of people have mentioned I need to review the cost of doing this with old traditional rail vs. just buying new.  I do not mind time, it is sunk cost.  It is actual dollars that is a big deal (to my wife!).

Thank you for any input.

mike w posted:

Have a look at what "Frank 53" did with old school track!  You wont find him on here now but a search of other forums will bring up pics of his layout and the way he did his track

I second this comment. He also had a feature and some how to articles I believe in CTT a few years ago. What a layout! But I think it's gone now. Ranger Rick's looks on par with Frank's also.

I have '027' shorter profile track and used popsicle sticks as ties, shingles as roadbed.

I would go with the red cedar and paint the rails since you aren't using track power. Bury the rails in ballast. I like the look of 027 but needed wider curves. Since you aren't using track power I would go with used.

Jim,

Thx.  If using O-27 I think there are only 3 circle diameter choices?  I also like the 'brownish' look of O-27, but that does not mean I could not paint the black metal ties on O gauge brown.

BTW, I have called threeR plastics - they are checking to see if the plastic they use for the ties is UV resistant.  I will post results.

Helmut

Its apparent that I don't have many pictures on my layout of the tubular section that don't have any train on it.

Chris,

It is also apparent that you have a busy layout!  It is enough, I can see the ties.  Looks good!  I like the pic of UP 9659 on the tight curve, some might not like it too much.

While we might focus on different eras (I am going to do steam) have you found many limitations with O-27 track/curves?  Are you models all traditional/semi-scale, or do you also have O scale models?  (Maybe should be a different thread?)

Helmut

hlfritz posted:

Chris,

It is also apparent that you have a busy layout!  It is enough, I can see the ties.  Looks good!  I like the pic of UP 9659 on the tight curve, some might not like it too much.

While we might focus on different eras (I am going to do steam) have you found many limitations with O-27 track/curves?  Are you models all traditional/semi-scale, or do you also have O scale models?  (Maybe should be a different thread?)

Helmut

Helmut,

My layout is 3 loops, one that goes the whole way around, one half, and one that goes up and over itself ontop of itself.

Seems like you got all my "newest" stuff in those pictures. I normally like the mid 70's diesels, but I'm an operator and like to run everything.

My outer two loops I run all scale items. All of the diesels I like are 2/3 axle and I can run them without an issue, both curves are 0-54 which kept me away from the large steamers (I do have several steamers that will navigate the curves) The inner loop is normally 0-27/semi-scale stuff due to the steep grade and the 0-27 radii curves, The RMT BEEPs do a good job of this task with a couple of cars.

Let me know if you'd like to see anymore.

Chris

Here is a pic of a little layout I started several years ago. I used medium sized craft sticks, cut length with my miter saw. I glued them to the underside of the rails with Elmer's pro wood glue. I spray painted them with Rustoleum flat brown. I don't have any pics with the ballast laid. 

Well guys it is a resounding yes that the tubular track can look MUCH better.  More than acceptable for me - I am not so into the detailed appearance copy the prototype aspect, rather I want to emulate operations.

I had decided upon On30, then I purchased some.  They are T-I-N-Y, especially the Porters, and I am having a difficult time imagining doing things in an operational session such as uncoupling!  Such a simple thing that is a basic part of any operation seems like it would be a difficult thing to do, especially on an outdoor layout.

Other O gauge track is pricey, almost as pricey as G gauge.  So I started looking into the old school can often be found cheap tubular traditional O gauge track and that got me here.

Now I have to determine if the cheapest way is to buy the old stuff and rehab with ties, paint etc. or buy newer stuff such as Gargraves with the ties already on it.

My opinion is that tubular track can be made to look as good as you want it to.

I recently moved from PA to CA and brought with me all of the tubular track from my PA layout as I did not have the time to try to sell it before moving.

I then had the opportunity to start over with new track - I was leaning toward Ross / Gargraves. After much thought, I decided to re-use my tinplate track for several reasons: 1 - It would have been very expensive to buy all new track; 2 - I know I can easily cut tubular track to any configuration needed; 3 - I also brought with me a large supply of rubber ties.

What I did new here was to first install cork roadbed which I painted a dark grey, then glued ballast directly to the roadbed (makes layout changes easy), then installed track and additional ties. I did upgrade to all Ross switches with DZ 1000s attached.

Here are a few pictures:

StanGTrain,

There is no doubt that your track looks great, very nice.  I just gotta check the pricing of doing what I want to do vs. buying new.

Helmut

I played around with 'handlaying' tubular track from something I saw on another forum, it isn't that hard. 

1)take the metal ties off the tubular rail

2)have pins on both ends of the rail, and connect each end to a piece of tubular (intact) track. At this point, the rails will be lined up to the right gauge.

3)I bought some 1/4" wood (someone else said 1/4x1/2) at a craft store. I cut them to a length that was roughly what a real tie would be. 

4)Since I was just doing a proof of concept, I 'stained' the ties using a dark brown/black market I thought was close to what real ones color was.

5)I glued to the ties to the rails (the ones I took the metal ties off off) using Gorilla glue, putting them on spaced roughly what a prototype rail would be. 

6)Once the glue dried, I then also 'weathered' the rails using a brown rust color marker.

I don't have a picture handy, but it didn't look half bad. The person who I saw do this actually spiked the rail to the ties, which was a bit to detailed since I was just playing around.

Since you are not powering the rails, being outside might not be that much of a problem, though you still may want to paint the rails , since the tubular track metal finish when it rusts doesn't look like rusty real rails (sounds weird, but that is my thought. 

You could obviously keep the metal ties and put wood in between, but I didn't like that look. 

The biggest cost for this likely will be the wood for the ties, using cedar or pressure treated wood makes sense, but I don't know how much that would cost you (prob cheaper if you could rip the ties from a piece of wood, versus buying something at size), the wood may be the most expensive cost of doing this especially if you use weather resistant wood like cedar or pressure treated. Might be cheaper buying used gargraves, you should be able to price out the alternatives. 

BigKid,

I have thought of doing exactly that, but actually putting the new ties on first between the existing steel ties, then remove the old steel ties and replace them last.  I am not sure how far I will go.

I am getting pricing on Red Cedar and threeR is checking UV resistance of the plastic they use tin their ties.

The benefit to this would be I could use any mixture of O and O-27 as all of my ties would be the same height.  I could even still vary the width of the ties to make part of the layout "narrow gauge" and the other part "standard gauge".

I do agree with the color of the rust on these - it is very copperish?  Not the brown-red(?) of prototype.

Helmut

No one mentioned " old school track look better" is cover it with long trains.  Just kidding ! 

I started to add ties to 027 track and did the turntable and lost interest.  I used 1/8 inch balsa wood and stain.

Project is now on the "To Do List"

Charlie

Charlie,

I think I know why - just read your first sentence! 

Helmut

Helmut,

  I was digging for this for a while then saw you mention an outdoors layout. See what you think. Look at the pictures/posts from Jim Pastorius and BigO426...these guys are clearly thinking outside the box and are pretty creative. This is one of my favorite all-time threads. (Not sure how their craftsmanship would hold up outdoors though)

https://ogrforum.com/t...30#44933326313471330

 Personally, I've bought some vinyl sheets from the local craft store and I think it is a good option. You can buy them a 2x3 foot sheet for a dollar or two, it is easy to cut (can cut a bunch in an evening while watching TV), comes in black or brown, different thicknesses... what's not to like? 

Tom 

Tom,

what is wrong with an outdoor layout? 

Terry cloth towels would probably not work too well there, but the layered effect with different colors does look kinda nice.

Do you have pics of the vinyl sheet you mention?

Helmut

Popsicle sticks:

Fortunately(?) you don't have to eat them to get the sticks like kids way back when did.  They're available in several sizes at craft stores and in craft departments at places like Wal-Mart.  This layout is only 4 by 6 with O31 and an S gauge circle but it still took about 200 ties, so you can see that cheap is a big plus!  I estimated the number of ties required at 6 per standard section and cut them to close but not exactly the same lengths using a cut-off disc in my Dremel tool.  Instead of painting or staining using the traditional methods, I "stained" my ties with watered down acrylic craft paints (no wiping required as with oil based wood stains).  They dried very quickly and the variations in color look great.

I want this layout to look like something Lionel or another major manufacturer might have done as a factory built display so I don't want to get too realistic.  At least not too far beyond state of the hobby in the 50's and 60's.  Consequently my ballasting is very limited.  But good grading work increases the realism of any track 100 fold.

Also, consider painting your rails.  Blackening the center rail is common but don't forget the other rails.  A coat of rust colored paint applied in varying degrees of color and intensity can make even the out of scale O tubular (it's standard gauge rail) look better.

Bottom line, you don't have to spend a fortune to make your track look better than "out of the box".

Becky

Helmut,

 No offense intended, build it wherever you want. I was slightly off on the actual size, it is a little more than 11x17 inches. 

 I have both 2mm sheets and 3mm sheets. The 3mm is probably the better size since it is nice and snug under the track. The store is called Joann's. The test section on my workbench layout has the 2mm black under my 027 track.

Tom 

Thx Becky - craft/popsicle sticks are definitely a consideration but I am not sure how well they will hold up outdoors.  As stated, I am removing the center rail and going BPRC.

Tom,

No umbrage taken, it is all good!

My wife is VERY familiar with Joann's!  That should be easy to find, I can get some now and put it in the sun to see how it holds up.