Cancelled LCT, June 21, 2012

In this day and age, there's probably not a whole lot of demand for do-it-yourself kits in the world of tinplate.  Sad, but probably true.

That's to bad. I think it would have been fun to put together and run.

There was a thread several months back about these being cancelled. Guess this makes it official.

I was disappointed when the 840 Power House was also recently cancelled but not at all surprised. There is only so much demand for these items from an already small pool of interested buyers. I am surprised that we get as much new tinpalte product as we do considering the numbers and the economic conditions we are in.

 

mack

Bummer!

I guess the 9U would be an oddity in modern times. What would one do with it? If you make it, it's kind of cool, but then you have an engine to run. If you leave it in the box, then you have parts to look at.

 

Again, the originals were made as instructional toys. Some say to compare with the Dorfan products. But that was then, and today, the originals do not command all that much over a regular 9E unless it is complete in its box.

 

This modern version didn't really have much of an audience, in reality.

 

As for the 840 power station, again, how many times has this been reproduced, and how many new buyers are there today, when one can be found almost weekly on ebay? There is a glut of modern repro's out there, so they can be found in the secondary market by anyone wishing to buy one.

 

If only it had "Proto-Cafeteria" with the ability to toast a bagel, fry an egg, and brew coffee.

They are playing their cards close to the chest as far as the risk involved in producing collectable reproductions, which in this economy, makes perfect sense. However, how they go about it seems to me a sort of a denial of their own methodology. Announcing and then cancelling their own announcements seems absurd. Why don't they say up front, we are considering the production of x, y and z. Have these items on line for pre-orders, for a reasonable amount of time where folks do not have to rely on rumors, guesswork or fronting cash for non existent items. Make it a vote, or poll. Get some feedback. They are guessing while we are also guessing like betting in Vegas. It seems ridiculous. Make this a simple feedback process, then do the catalog. Not do the catalog and then cancel the items in it. We all know what game they are playing so why don't they make the game easier to play? Does not seem to be rocket science.

Aww, come on electroliner...that would make far too much sense! 

 

The only problem is that I assume only a fraction of the model railroading community, including tinplate enthusiasts, spend much or any time at all following online developments in the hobby.  I know those of us who spend a lot of time at a keyboard would like to think otherwise, but I know far too many hobbyists who, even today, may use a computer for their work but for very little else.

Agreed.  Especially for what amounts to a "specialty item" like the Power Station mentioned above. The market for those is considerably different than, say, your average 260E loco.

 

Funny thing about the Power Station is I see those all the time sitting on shelves in train and hobby stores. You can always tell by the placement (and the light coating of dust on the box ) that they've been there for months.

Allan,

I was reacting to the silliness of producers pretending something will be made when it's a only a potential,  not only in tinplate ( which I agree it's a small margin) but the toy train industry as a whole. Like the boy who cried wolf, they throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks, and then cancel their own catalog's content routinely, which to me is not a catalog or menu, its a pseudo catalog that is pseudo serious. What a doomed business model. While taking a poll of potential products may have it's own lack of effectiveness to some degree, it beats zero in terms of the communication between the producer and the customer as far as what will sell. It reminds me of repeat customers going to a restaurant and ordering off a menu that may or may not be a work of fiction. To me it's simple, Give the people what they want but ask them what they want first. Or at least try to.

In the Tinplate part of MTH what has been cancelled and never made. I would not count the 840 Power Station as it has been done a million times and will eventually be made again.

 

I have a list of 2. The 400E with the silly little wheels and now the 9 in kit form.

 

Anyone wish to add to the list?

I'm in agreement 100%!

Seems a lot better than doing a run of, say, the Hiawatha and Commodore sets and then blowout much of the production a few months later.  And in Tinplate, I think you could count the fingers of one hand for the items that were actually canceled and not later produced.

 

Lionel had that scale Hudson in the 1946 catalog that never made it to production -- and that was at the beginning of the great postwar boom.  The lift bridge had technical problems so was never made in the postwar period.  And more recently, K-line made some new standard gauge track when Lionel showed the Hiawatha at the Toy Fair, yet didn't get enough orders to produce.  Took another decade for MTH to make RealTrax.  

 

Frankly, I think they should do some mockups and take them to York and see what the reception is like.  Could also post on website for feedback and pre-orders.

In this economy, and with these being specialty items designed for a certain, small niche, I would not blame them for being nervous. But surely if they have a certain number in mind to sell, and if they get say twice that number in pre-orders, figuring half will drop out, it would be a fairly safe way to go?

Here's an item in three color variations that was cancelled before it was produced by MTH.

Did they ever produce the 2-7/8" gauge Type I Gondola?  I have the Type II.

Very good the 101 Bridge with a MSRP of $299.99. Now we have 3 items anymore?

That's essentially what the catalogs have become, the preferred method of asking what the people want.  If folks want something, they'll preorder it.  If not enough folks are interested by preordering, it doesn't get made.  It may not be right, but it seems the way of the model train world nowadays.

 

Otherwise the trouble is, ask 10 people what they want and you'll get 15 different answers, all different.

 

3 will complain about the price.

 

32% will want conventional, 85% command control. (Yeah, I know it doesn't add up...)

 

And about half will say if you make what the other guy wants, they're not interested.

 

Followed by a barrage of "If only..."

 

Rusty

Has anyone here ever pre-ordered from MTH or Lionel? No. You pre-ordered from a retailer and most of them do not take deposits for pre-orders. All pre-orders do is give the retailer a guideline as to what to order for store inventory. Your pre-order is then filled from store inventory. I doubt MTH or Lionel  know what is ordered as a store pre-order or as store speculation inventory. The deadlines are for when the store has get there orders in to MTH or Lionel.

 

I think all retailers have to order a certain amount to maintain there retailer status.

To bring the discussion back to the topic at hand.....

 

I know of several folks who were very interested in purchasing this, but were waiting to see what was actually delivered. One could assemble the kit, run the engine, and then later disassemble it for display as the parts of the kit once again. One could assemble, then disassemble it several times for one's and one's childrens' amusement. Anyone, however, who has seen the gorgeous mint sample of the 9U kit at the NTTM is likely to appreciate that how this kit would be packaged for display is a very important factor (i.e., "Presentation is everything"). In this case, the display packaging is easily as important as the contents.

 

Making some 9U's in the form of parts as a side line when a group of traditional 9E's are produced would not be very difficult, even for a niche item. MTH's packaging for the LCT line, however, has so far left something to be desired; hence, a (perceived) lack of willingness to precommit on the part of potential customers, IMO.

 

Bob Bubeck 

A rather odd piece. If you purchased one, would you build it, build it and take it back apart, or just display it as an unbuilt piece. Seems to me to be an instant shelf queen. Not that I haven't purchased items for that very purpose. Also alienates any of us running ps-2. Wonder how many orders were placed for this.

For many of us who grew up playing with ERECTOR sets and are in the traditionalist camp, the 9U kit appears as natural as red apples. And, every last item need not be done with PS-2, which is antithetical to the idea behind this kit anyway. One can be fairly sure that few orders were likely placed. But then, displaying and seeing a nice original like the one in the NTTM and promising to make a faithful reproduction of both the contents and the packaging might have helped preorders. The illustration in the catalog is weak, to put it mildly.

 

Bob Bubeck 

Actually, with a few excptions, I believe dealers now have to order from the distributor (at least for Lionel.)

 

The fact is, somebody has to order an item nowadays, be it a dealer or a customer for it to become a reality.

 

However, if a dealer doesn't get any interest from his customers for XYZ, (especially a big-buck XYZ) unless he wants to take the risk that someone migth buy one later, he's probably not going to order it.  And if the dealers or distibutors don't see a good response for something, it's likely not going to be scheduled for production.

 

Cases in point that come to mind (not tinplate, but examples): Lionel MKT FM H12-44, MTH UP 4-8-2.

 

Rusty

I don't know, I like the LCT packaging myself. Not really sure what you're looking for but I think it's a nice nod to the vintage Lionel stuff. Also have to wonder how much it really matters in the long run.

I know of alot of folks who speak like this and then will come up with another excuse not to buy something that they never had any intention of buying in the first place.

The LCT individual rolling stock boxes are nice, IMHO, but the flimsy polystyrene inner shells for the O gauge stuff are short of the mark. The recent No. 214 Armored Motor Car Outfit would have been better packaged with a legitimate set box and not just a shipping carton. A 9U kit requires a robust container that enables one to remove parts and later place them back in on a repeated basis, and also serve as a handsome display -- not unlike the original. The illustrations for the 9U (2010, page 32) and the 4U (2011, page 21) are not enticing. Viewing a complete boxed vintage 9U such as the one at the NTTM will clarify what I am trying to convey.

 

Bob Bubeck 

 

Please, let's not indulge in mind reading. I believe that I have made pretty clear what would clinch the deal for me.

 

Bob Bubeck

Bob,

 

I hear you. Didn't realize the Armored Set came that way. Definitely would have been nice to have had this set in more appealing packaging.

 

 

Wonder if they had offered it in one color instead of two if they could have had enough preorders to make just the one.

Amen Bob.  Though I am a traditionalist (as most know) there are certain items that fit the bill for me with new production.  The 9U is just that.  Finding a complete 9U in the box with all the pieces and parts in C7+ shape is not possible at anything approaching a reasonable price... the last auctioned one went for $11,000.

 

So I had placed an order for the Orange variety even though that packaging is weak.... oh well.

No wonder I haven't seen these around.  

 

I've never pre-ordered anything.   And the only time I came close, it was when the Dorfan "Crocs" were offered.  Good thing I didn't given how that turned out.

If MTH cancelled this bridge, with an MSRP of $299.95, as Jim C pointed out, then someone realized that even discount priced at $250.00, it's about $150 or more too much.

 

MTH has been doing this as long as wheels have been round. They never give a real explanation, and as discussed on other threads concerning cancelled profits, it's been stated that no money changes hands on preorders. So, it isn't about raising money to get things made. It just doesn't make any sense that after many years in business, they do not have a sense of what they can and cannot bring to production.

 

But like I said, they ought to give the guy that recommend cancelling the $300 101 bridge a nice bonus. That's ridiculous.