Chance to Buy - Lionel 6-31713 O Gauge Southern Crescent Steam Passenger Train Set

First, what we think you pay for something that you want as an heirloom for your son is completely irrelevant, and should mean nothing to you. With that being said, this set is a very sturdy set, with very well made mechanical components. That’s not to say there isn’t an Achilles heel. The TMCC electronics can fail, with no direct service parts available. There are aftermarket electronic parts available now ( such as ERR by 3rd Rail )  that can repair these locomotives, as well as opportunities to convert to other mfr.’s command systems if so desired. So it’ll all depend what your plans are as far as when you plan on giving the set to your son. I’d be sure to have the entire set tested, and carefully packed, and stored in a controlled environment if it’s going to be stored for an extended period ……good luck, let us know how the purchase goes,…

Pat

That set,  when new,  was 1400 list price.  I would have a hard time paying over list for a set 21 years old. But you cannot put a price on time spent with  your son. Ultimately you have to decide if it's worth it.  If you do decide to buy it, don't look back at what you paid. Just make those memories with your son. That is always worth it.

I have tis set and i is still my favorite passenger set and I have not had any issues with it.  I love the engine specific announcements  and when I finally found a station sounds dinning car to go with it, I was at last able to understand why when making departure announcement, there was such a long pause - turns out that  if engine and diner have the same ID, after the engine announcemt is made, the station sounds car makes an announcement that the conductor would me making.  Also, I love the Cajun accent of the diner announcements.  Personally, I  I prefer the engine sounds and whistle  on this set to Lionel's two subsequent Crescent offerings.  The only negative would be that it only has two chuffs per revolution.

Maybe a little know fact is that this is the only Lionel engine I have ever heard with the sounds of the coupler slack banging together when you brake.  I know MTH offered this sound but it was my understanding that MTH patented the feature.

Since the engine has not been run, I would make the offer with the stipulation that the engine be test run to insure all feature function as they should.  Most of my experience with Lionel command control (especially for this era) has been that if something is going to fail, it usually happens right out of the box and once that is corrected, they are extremely reliable.

Good luck with your decision,

Don

Have not seen one of these sets in person before, would anyone have a video or photos of it to post?

This is the set currently running on my layout (with the two extra cars and station sounds diner) and is one of my favorites, along with the Blue Comet and Alton Limited sets from the same era.  The Blue Comet and Alton Limited sets are sitting in the passenger yard, waiting for dispatch!  I usually add a postwar aluminum baggage car at the head end to make a slightly longer train.  Very impressive when running.

Where are the photos fellas?????    Talk is cheap..             Lol,   :-).

One thing I need a lesson on is the TMCC. I've spent my whole life (43 years) using the same Z transformer to run the trains as a kid and then my dad gave it to me with the 6-8702 set. In all transparency, I only run the trains, usually two sets, at Christmas around the tree. Is it possible to run the newest Southern Crescent set with my Z transformer? I'm assuming by not using the TMCC, I am totally missing out on all the sounds and features...

@Stoogesman - In answer to your question, YES you can run this TMCC equipped engine with your Z transformer - but ONLY IN Conventional’ mode - that basically means you will only be able to get the whistle and bell sounds; until and unless you acquire additional TMCC components (eg. PowerMaster, Command Base) which, when combined with your Z transformer (for power), would then enable you to access all of the other sound features.  However, many on this Forum would recommend that if you decide to upgrade to Command Control, that you replace the Z with something more modern that has circuit breaker protection.

Good Luck in your train endeavours!

@ph1975 - Pardon my ignorance but this is all new to me. In your opinion, what exactly should I get to be able to run this train. Keep in mind, at least for now, it'll only be ran around Christmas time.

I googled tmcc and was quickly overwhelmed on what I need.

So earlier today a user Larry Brown said he had a set. Oddly, that post is now gone...

Did anyone else see this post earlier today?

@Stoogesman posted:

So earlier today a user Larry Brown said he had a set. Oddly, that post is now gone...

Did anyone else see this post earlier today?

Yes, I saw the post and it looked like a great deal.

Good luck,

Don

I know why it was removed. I was told by a forum admin that it should have been posted in the buy/sell area, not here. My apologies for invoking this. I created the thread only to get peoples opinions on how they liked the set.

Hi everyone!!

Boy, did I find a deal! I was able to get the 2003 Lionel Southern Crescent Limited (6-31713) new in the box for $900! After using capital one shopping points, that in cashed in for $750 on eBay, I paid a whopping $150 out of pocket! The set should arrive on Thursday. I'll have some pics and videos to follow.

In the meantime, can someone help me out with what tmcc setup I need? All I have currently is an old z transformer my dad gave me a while back and a transformer I got in a 2012 NJ Maintenance of Way set (shown below). I'm completely clueless on what I need to get all the features out of this 2003 train. Also, I don't wanna go overboard because I only run my trains during the Christmas season.

Not to bust your bubble, I’m not 100% exact on the item numbers, but if this set has the TMCC Southern Crescent PS4 Pacific locomotive, there’s a known defect about the tender trucks crumbling due to zinc rot, …..don’t panic if it does, it can be fixed,…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Not to bust your bubble, I’m not 100% exact on the item numbers, but if this set has the TMCC Southern Crescent PS4 Pacific locomotive, there’s a known defect about the tender trucks crumbling due to zinc rot, …..don’t panic if it does, it can be fixed,…

Pat

Thrilling 😂

@Stoogesman posted:

Thrilling 😂

Well, I didn’t want you to have a nasty surprise when you open the box, or worse, you wait till the holidays are on top of us, and then open the box, only to find the tender trucks crumbled,…..check it out as soon as you get it, and look carefully for the tell tale cracks in the tender trucks,….if they’re really bad, they’ll be exploded in the box,….if they are, you’ve got plenty of time to react before your anticipated holiday run with your boy,….keep us updated…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Well, I didn’t want you to have a nasty surprise when you open the box, or worse, you wait till the holidays are on top of us, and then open the box, only to find the tender trucks crumbled,…..check it out as soon as you get it, and look carefully for the tell tale cracks in the tender trucks,….if they’re really bad, they’ll be exploded in the box,….if they are, you’ve got plenty of time to react before your anticipated holiday run with your boy,….keep us updated…

Pat

Appreciate the preemptive warning! The set should be here Thursday.

Now I just have to o figure out how to test this train and it's functions without a tmcc setup.

Well my transformer problems are minor compared to what I just realized....

This set operates on a minimum o-54 curve. I have tons of o36 fast track and some atlas track but no idea what curve size that is. I don't think it's 54. And I only run my trains as t Christmas around the tree so a 54" loop isn't going to work. Looks like I have a $900 paper weight! Great!!

@Stoogesman posted:

And I only run my trains as t Christmas around the tree so a 54" loop isn't going to work. Looks like I have a $900 paper weight! Great!!

Is it that you absolutely don't have room for a bigger loop?  When I was still putting up my Christmas Tree, I would temporarily re-arrange my furniture to put up an O72 loop with smaller loops in the middle.  Lionel makes O60 FasTrack curves (16 pcs per circle), so if you could make the space, you could even put an inner loop with the O36 and have two trains running.

Andy

@Stoogesman posted:

Well my transformer problems are minor compared to what I just realized....

This set operates on a minimum o-54 curve. I have tons of o36 fast track and some atlas track but no idea what curve size that is. I don't think it's 54. And I only run my trains as t Christmas around the tree so a 54" loop isn't going to work. Looks like I have a $900 paper weight! Great!!

You have a very nice train set that you got for a very fair price.  The sky is NOT falling.

One is always learning in this hobby.

0-54 does not take up that much more room than 0-36.  Don't give up so easily.   

Congratulations on your really good deal for this set!  Try your best to make space for the largest oval you can as suggested by several fellas above. This set is pretty much 'Scale' (unlike your earlier set) and will look much better on a larger oval. Hopefully your tender trucks will have survived intact but are easily replaced with a little extra effort. :-)

You keep emphasizing that this is 'only a 'Christmas' activity' - have you considered expanding your horizons a bit?  This is a wonderful hobby and especially as a relationship builder with children in your life. Perhaps there is a club nearby that you and your son could check out and you will likely find a wealth of knowledge and information to increase your enjoyment of the hobby. This Forum is also one of the best sources of help and advice out there. Your new set is  certainly a beauty and one to be cherished and built upon!

@Stoogesman - Aside from the possibility of zinc rot and notwithstanding the 054 minimum curve required (primarily for the passenger cars), another assumption you made early on was that by NOT using TMCC “I am totally missing out on all the sounds and features…”.  In this regard closer scrutiny of some of the advertising for this set states in part “Most of the effects are now accessible using only a transformer for those who prefer to run in a non-TMCC environment.”

I totally agree with the others, …..the sky is not falling, ….so put away the extension cords and the rickety chair, and we’ll all help you figure out what you need to enjoy your train set, …..if you go in with a defeated mind set, the sky will fall, but only on you,…..we’ll be fine …..

Pat

I agree with c.sam that you and your son should try to find the opportunity to "play" with trains throughout the year. There are ways to find room in the house without a layout being too much in the way. One idea for a kid is a loft bed and the layout underneath it. A full/double size upper is 54" wide and of course the layout underneath can go a few inches beyond if needed. Maybe put the whole bed on castors so you can get to the back of the layout. Have a few inexpensive starter set trains for him to run and bring out your new one for running together.

Not sure about Lionel but with my MTH PS3s I can operate the coupler with the transformer in conventional by using a sequence of bell+horn. I was excited as a child when I did that the first time, lol!

Mikki

Thanks everyone for your comments and help!

I think I may have o45 Atlas track and after reading a lot on this forum, there's a number of people running legacy trains, including the 2012 legacy Southern Crescent Limited on smaller than o54 track. There's some overlap but I can live with that.

As for rearranging the room for the tree and trains, that's not doable. I currently run two loops.  One o36 of fast track and another outside loop using Atlas track. Not sure what size my Atlas track is. 

The necessary diameter/radius of each scale steam engine is determined on a case by case basis.  There is no Legacy standard....or anything close to it.

Be wary of the paint on the front of the tender and the back of the cab rubbing/scraping.

@Stoogesman posted:

Thanks everyone for your comments and help!

I think I may have o45 Atlas track and after reading a lot on this forum, there's a number of people running legacy trains, including the 2012 legacy Southern Crescent Limited on smaller than o54 track. There's some overlap but I can live with that.

As for rearranging the room for the tree and trains, that's not doable. I currently run two loops.  One o36 of fast track and another outside loop using Atlas track. Not sure what size my Atlas track is.

If you’ve got O45 now, O54 ain’t that much bigger,….it’s literally less than  5 inches on each side of an oval,……don’t set yourself up for more disappointment,….that engine has an IR detector between the engine & tender, …now, it might be fine on O45,  but as others have stated, scraping paint, sound drop outs, and lots of scrubbing of the drivers and wheels on tighter curves…….Not to mention, the cars will be working harder on tighter curves as well. All that tight turning strains the wiring harnesses that light up the cars, …lots of broken wires and having to make constant repairs will get aggravating quick…..even more frustrating if you have to take it somewhere, or ship it off for repairs……

Pat

Ok, as a few have posted, I shouldn't panic. After going into the basement a bit ago and ripping out the Atlas track I've been using since 2009, low and behold it's O-54 !!!! All these years and I had no idea!! Since 2009 when my dad handed me over the 1976 Lionel Southern Crescent Limited set, I've been setting that one up on the Atlas track and using fast track on the inside, around my tree. As soon as I read the track I laughed at my pure ignorance! The new Southern Crescent Limited set arrives tomorrow afternoon and I'll be taking over the family room to test out this set. I am beyond excited!!

The interesting part is there's literally only two videos online showing this set and no one shows it smoking or gives a detailed go over of it. I'll be doing that tomorrow after initial testing. Stay tuned!! I also attached a picture of the Atlas track showing it is in fact O-54.

Thanks everyone for talking me off the ledge and being so kind in talking me through this.

Much more to come tomorrow!! 🚂🛤️🚂

You’re in business son,….good deal,…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

You’re in business son,….good deal,…

Pat

Super excited! Can't wait to show my son the set and when he's a grown man, I'll send it his way to enjoy in his home. In the meantime, Christmas will be extra special this year with the 1976 Southern Crescent Limited running alongside the 2003 Southern Crescent Limited. ❤️

@Stoogesman posted:

Super excited! Can't wait to show my son the set and when he's a grown man, I'll send it his way to enjoy in his home. In the meantime, Christmas will be extra special this year with the 1976 Southern Crescent Limited running alongside the 2003 Southern Crescent Limited. ❤️

Very cool, …remember, don’t panic if the tender trucks crumble …..temporarily grab your other tender and if it’ll hook up, roll on about your evening…..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Very cool, …remember, don’t panic if the tender trucks crumble …..temporarily grab your other tender and if it’ll hook up, roll on about your evening…..

Pat

10-4!

If they are in fact crumbled, where do I source them out? I'm pretty handy and fixed all my 1976 Southern Crescent Limited set cars and the sound board on my 1976 tender.

@Stoogesman posted:

10-4!

If they are in fact crumbled, where do I source them out? I'm pretty handy and fixed all my 1976 Southern Crescent Limited set cars and the sound board on my 1976 tender.

Problem is, there’s no direct replacements available as far as I know,……..they’ve all been sucked up, or obsolete in Lionel’s eyes,….I’ve rebuilt a few using MTH parts, ..not a direct swap, but can be done nicely with no hacking…..if they indeed are crumbling, you can contact me via profile, and you can send me the tender for a retrofit service. …..but cross that bridge when you come to it…..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Problem is, there’s no direct replacements available as far as I know,……..they’ve all been sucked up, or obsolete in Lionel’s eyes,….I’ve rebuilt a few using MTH parts, ..not a direct swap, but can be done nicely with no hacking…..if they indeed are crumbling, you can contact me via profile, and you can send me the tender for a retrofit service. …..but cross that bridge when you come to it…..

Pat

Sounds good! The set is expected to arrive between 1:30-3:30 tomorrow. I'll probably be working from the front porch lol 😂

Tomorrow's testing setup is ready! 16 and a half year old weener dog approved ☺️ His name is Copper.

Have any smoke fluid to drop into the smokestack?   

You don't want to run a "new" steam engine without smoke fluid....although you can certainly turn that feature off, if you like.

Personally, I'd start with 10 drops.....wait a few minutes.....and then add 10 more drops.

But that's another topic altogether.  Good luck!

@Berkshire President posted:

Have any smoke fluid to drop into the smokestack?   

You don't want to run a "new" steam engine without smoke fluid....although you can certainly turn that feature off, if you like.

Personally, I'd start with 10 drops.....wait a few minutes.....and then add 10 more drops.

But that's another topic altogether.  Good luck!

Absolutely I have smoke fluid! Supposedly the new in box set will include some too. We shall see...

I'm all ears for your recommendation on getting smoke fluid in her. The set is arriving tomorrow afternoon and is never been taken out of the box. So 21 years sitting in her cocoon.

Whatever came from the factory has most likely evaporated by now....like all my hopes and dreams.

I like JT Mega Steam "NADA" flavor and Lionel's fluid.

The 10 drops, wait a few minutes, and then add ten drops has served me well over the years.

@Berkshire President posted:

Whatever came from the factory has most likely evaporated by now....like all my hopes and dreams.

I like JT Mega Steam "NADA" flavor and Lionel's fluid.

The 10 drops, wait a few minutes, and then add ten drops has served me well over the years.

Works for me.

Any recommendations on lubing the locomotive before running it, being it's sat for 21 years. I have the Lionel multipurpose lube and the oil.

I'm a bit of a novice so any recommendations are warmly welcome.