Command layout, with conventional locos

I normally operate in Command.

I upgraded 13 MTH Proto 1.0 to TM/RS 4.0 way back in the day along with a few Weaver,Williams and the Lionel 4501. Nowadays I run my remaining non-upgraded Conventional from the handheld Cab 1 remote via linkage of 180 PowerHouses to TPC 400s. 

It's easy to set your layout up to run command or conventional. Our layout has 4 loops I tend to run two command and two conventional.

 If you use TPC's or Powermasters you can switch between command and conventional.

You can still control a conventional loco remotely from the Cab 1 or a Cab 2. If you had powermasters you would need to add a powermaster bridge to use the Cab 2.

 

As you say it's very much down to personal preference and how complex/large your layout is. 

 

Regards

Nick

I'm still in the process of upgrading all my locos to TMCC. Have five to go. I don't buy brand new engines, only used. If I find one I like that is not TMCC it's not a deal breaker.

I started with TMCC on part of a layout, and old ZW conventional on a dual mainline.  After buying a few TMCC locos I decided it wasn't a great bargain upgrading.  Better sounds kept coming and better cruise control.  Then Legacy.  I have a number of TMCC locos that haven't been run in many years.  

As for conventional, I hooked up a TPC on the holiday layout just to run my dad's old 1950 Berkshire.  I really enjoyed that original smoke pellet smell.  

In general, I think most people like the newest system features if you have the $$'s.

I know I love the sounds and slow & steady control with Legacy.  

If it does have TMCC or Legacy I won't even look at it,that just me.

What would be the average cost of upgrading a basic locomotive (for example, a Lionel MPC diesel) to command?

Depends if you want sound. Sound can nearly double the cost.

I think buying a TPC or using the variable outs on a TIU is the way to go.

This is also why I think Williams are on a winner with their new sound system and model upgrades. You get everything at a greatly reduced price, and use the remote controller to run them.

It is soooo much easier to run your command layout in a conventional manner versus converting a conventional engine to a command engine. In my most recent layout progress video, I briefly explained running conventional and command, and demonstrated it on the layout.

 

Why upgrade every engine when you can upgrade 1 layout? Good chance you already have everything required to do it anyway.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq3G5ob5p_I

I've converted at least 20 locomotives and other motorized units to TMCC or PS/2, the typical price runs $150-200 for full sound & command.  If you want small motorized units converted, the cost can be $40 and up.

I do NOT use TPC's. I do NOT use just the voltage through the TIU variable channels. I can run conventional or command on any track at any time. The ZW-C is in command mode, so voltage is regulated using the Cab 2 remote, even using the fixed TIU channels because they only put out what you put in. The 180 watt brick goes in to the ZW, the ZW goes out to the TIU inputs, and the TIU output goes to the track distribution blocks. It sounds complicated but is soooo simple!

Where do you guys buy the parts to convert a conventional engine to run under legacy control? I have all conventional equipment and would like to purchase the legacy unit and start converting engines.

 

Matt

I hate to tell you but that's not going to happen. You can upgrade to TMCC/PS-2 but Lionel is not giving out it's Legacy system.

Electric Railroad Company sells all the components to turn any conventional locomotive into a TMCC locomotive.

 

http://www.electricrr.com/

 

The manuals are available online so you can read them before you buy the product.

 

 

 You can then run these locomotives with TMCC or Legacy systems. They will still operate in conventional mode when the TMCC base or the Lagecy base is disconnected.

I thought I wanted to do that awhile back... my math indicated the locos I had were realistically worth about 100-150 and adding 150-200 to get cruise and sounds gets me an older lesser equipped loco that I wouldn't get my time and money back.  

In other words, new Legacy locos run better, sound better and have a guarantee.

Or you can buy them used & save a few bucks.  

Or you can buy later TMCC locos with Odyssey & save a few more dollars.  I imagine a lot of people have nice TMCC stuff they no longer run because they primarily use Legacy.  (Me for one)

I just decided to buy fewer locos but all Legacy.   Well that was until this holiday season.  I dug out the old 726 and absolutely loving the smoke pellets and growling motor.  I think I'm buying the new CC Berkshire freight set.  Looks & sounds great.

Elliot a powermaster or track power controller will run those MPC engines using your transformers.

Woojr is right. I'm in the same boat. I have 4 TMCC engines and 2 Legacy engines and the Legacies are winning me over rather quickly.

Ron

Well Ron, it might be possible, but it's not really the direction I want to go. I have a very large layout. When complete, there will be somewhere around 40 power districts. Beside, most of those old engines don't have can motors. I have pretty much sworn off pullmor motors. I have 6 with TMCC, which I'll keep, but no more will be added. 

Not trying to be a command control salesman Elliot but with a large layout you can leave the control panel from time to time and get close to the trains.

Just my opinion,

Ron

Ok, so as woojr pointed out about cost, I am in the same boat. I have all conventional equipment (locos and transformers). I have no modern equipment meaning TMCC and forward.

 

If I want to buy Legacy and run my conventional equipment I would need a tpc for each power district correct? I watched the Lionel video on this. Transformer ---> Tpc ---> Legacy

 

How do you connect multiple tpc units to the Legacy system?

 

Any future engine purchases will be Legacy. I'll pick a handful of old favorites to upgrade.

 

Thanks

Matt in the manual it explains how to do this. Basically you daisy chain the data and ground from one TPC to the next. Depending on how many you want to chain together you may need Dale Manquen's signal booster.

Ron

If you use the ZW-C you have 4 powermasters available to power 4 different loops at 4 different voltages that can be wired to the TIU's or direct to the track. With the 4 loops you could operate any combination of conventional and command locomotives totaling 4 or less. A powermaster is a basic TPC. If you want to try and run command and conventional on the same track/loop you will have problems at slow speed controlling the command engine. It can be done but it can also get exciting as one catches up to the other.

Ron

I tinkered running conventional with command on the same tracks when I had a bunch of conventional stuff and was just starting with command.  It was most unsatisfying and problem plagued.  I can't imagine doing that as a regular thing, just too many issues.

You're right John it's something Gomez Adams would be into. 

Ron

I wouldn't even attempt to run a conventional engine and a command engine on the same loop. The lower voltage the conventional engine likes only cause havok with a command engine, especially the smoke unit. Like John says....too many issue.

 

1 loop... 1 type of operating at a time. Normally we will run our layout with conventional being on the lower loop, and the upper loops in command.

 

We only buy command control equipment these days, TMCC/Legacy or DCS, but we have the ability to run all the Post War and MPC stuff conventionally by remote when so desired!