Could I get some comments on Atlas freight cars?

Howard, you probably have noticed that Atlas trucks have two different bolsters, one taller than the other, for either 3 rail or scale wheels. the rest of the truck (sideframes) is common between 2 and 3 rail. if you change to scale wheelsets on a 3 rail truck it will still ride too high with the taller bolster.

You might try the latest Weaver 2-Rail Bettendorf, plain bearing trucks. 

Howard:

 

Check the trucks. There's a cross-bar that mounts the 3-rail coupler. As I recall, if you remove this it will drop the car's rid height and also allow the truck to equalize. As I recall, the 2-rail truck cross-beam doesn't have a crest like the 3-rail cross beam which will allow the car to sit at the correct height.

if you change to scale wheelsets on a 3 rail truck it will still ride too high with the taller bolster.

Thanks, I didn't know that.  I've been switching wheel sets to keep the original color on trucks that were painted other than black.

You might try the latest Weaver 2-Rail Bettendorf, plain bearing trucks. 

Thanks, I have to orders some for Weaver cars, I'll check them out on other equipment.

 

As I recall, the 2-rail truck cross-beam doesn't have a crest like the 3-rail cross beam which will allow the car to sit at the correct height.

 

Thanks, I'm going to have to take a closer look.

I modify the undercarriage and remove the bolster mentioned here and it rides quite a bit more accurately............  IMO

take a look at the photo below of an Atlas O 3 rail truck. the area noted with red guidelines show the bolster height. this area on the 2 rail truck is much thinner (lower).

 

 

Removing the bolster alone is not going to lower the car unless you grind down the mounting post as well. It's flush with the bolster.

 

Chris that's a 2R truck pictured

Remember that each builders car was probably slightly different.   And many RRs built their own cars.   

 

Basically on the prototypes, the bolster would probably be about the same height, but the roof line could be anywhere.    For example an X-29 has a 9 1/2 ft inside height while a 1937 ara car has a 10 1/2 ft inside height.   So before you panic too much, you might want to check on the prototypes.   

 

One thing to note is that Atlas cars originally had very wide trucks.   That tended to not look right to many people.   Atlas has changed that in recent years but the old ones are still out there.  

 

Another note is that Atlas as is typical of 3-rail focused manufacturers uses a truck mounting system that is unique to their product.   Lionel and MTH do the same.   All 3 make it a project to replace the trucks with another brand.  

To replace trucks, it is generally easier to also replace the body bolster on the car.   Cars made by 2-rail focused mfg tend to use standard bolster height.   

 

The good news is we still get some nice models that are worth converting.

 

I personally  have been able to live with the too-wide trucks.   They roll well and it is not so noticable from 3 feet away.   I have too many other projects to worry about it now.

Let look at the underframe bolster... maybe we can do something there?

 

 

 

Option 1: Start by lowering the mating surface by removing the ring at the bottom of the kingpin.  As slippery ABS plastic, it shouldn't make a difference in stability of the truck motion.

 

Option 2: lower the overall height of the bolster; more than likely by just taking the over height of the main bolster down, keeping the thickness and mating surfaces the same thickness, but making the slope shallower.

 

To test, you can start by sanding down the stock Atlas bolster on the bottom to see how much you have to take off.

 

Judging by how much I have to shim the coupler, I'd say lowering by 0.080" should do the trick.

 

Just my thoughts...

 

Thanks,

Mario

Look at it this way: Atlas could have left off the underframe structure under the trucks, like Lionel did on those gorgeous PS-1 boxcars, so that ride height would be correct.

 

This way, the 3-railers get a too-high car, and we get a full underframe, with car height easily fixed as suggested above. Bravo!

Howard:

 

I just had a thought that didn't die from loneliness. I just switched over a pair of Atlas 40-foot plug door cars that were originally 3-rail using Atlas 2-rail trucks I got from Doug. I'll check them against a factory 2-rail car of the same type when I get home and might be able to add more info to this thread.

 

By the way, good suggestion Mario.

 

It's all your fault Bob. You pushed us over the edge.

 

All Atlas are too high even when you buy their two rail version.  I change a lot of different Atlas to three rail The only one I found i didn't have to lower was the Double stack container set. Also Atlas does not like Kadee couplers. I have about given up on Atlas freight cars.

Like Hotwater said, I use Weaver trucks. Or like Laidoff sick said grind down the mounting post. Using the Kadee gauge is for coupler height not car height.

 

At least that is the way I see it 

Stock Two rail car on left,Stock three rail on right, Weaver three rail trucks in middle

Mario - I will be using your Atlas reefer replacement bolsters.  Some how I ended up with a bunch of Atlas 40' steel reefers of various road names that have bolsters with zinc rot. I will have to take some measurements.  Your bolsters will greatly help out!

__________________________________________________________________________

 

There is a lot of good advice on this thread.  I really appreciate it.  I'll have to scrutinize some prototype photos to get an idea of how far down the body needs to be lowered.

Marker….. see if you can find technical drawings for your cars. I went to the TTX sight to get the dimensions for these 89' flat cars.

 

Clem

This help?

 

 

 

 

The back side of the Kadee coupler gauge - end away from coupler, that looks like a shelf, is the gauge for the height of the underside of the car or coupler pad.   If your coupler pad is at that height, the coupler will be at the correct height.  

 

I didn't know this feature of the gauge for years.

Thank you Mario, I have some reefers I will be doing.

 

Clem

Here's the scaled down dimensions off the rail:

 

• 40' Wood Reefer; 13' 11 1/4" = 3.484"
• PFE R-70-5 Steel Reefer; 14' 5 7/8" = 3.625"
• Alaska 50' Mechanical Reefer; 15' 1" = 3.771"

 

Hope this helps...

 

Thanks,

Mario

 

As do I; as do I!

 As a rule of thumb 

Early Atlas/Rocco cars: I use, either weaver or Athearn O , Bettendorf ATH90821 ( Weaver/Kline wheel sets fit.)

 

Intermountain/ All Nation:Weaver, Athearn, or Intermountian trucks that come with the kits. ( Weaver/Kline wheel sets fit.) ,

 

Pecos River Atlas Trucks or to lower from the flood look, Weaver, Athearn, or Intermountian trucks that come with the kits. ( Weaver/Kline wheel sets fit or the Intermountain 3R conversion sets) 

 

 For the newer Atlas (ATSF Reefer which was Intermountain tooling) I just did a test fit with weaver trucks and it did lower the car and still cleared the high rail wheel flanges.

Mario,

 

Can you make them as thin as possible and make them all the same and then make a shim that would go under the bolster to raise it if needed?

Mario

 

I have been playing around with an atlas reefer that the bolsters are broken. I have been using a modified weaver bolster that has been trimmed and sanded as a replacement. Using weaver trucks with shimming I was able to lower the ride height with the high rail flanges just above the underside but not rubbing on anything so option one that should do it. Option One will also allow the use of Weaver or Athearn trucks by sanding off the guide pin.

 

Doug     

Mario:

 

Your work is brilliant.

 

By the way, I checked my converted cars against factory cars and they both ride high. Definitely a compromise in the manufacture to accommodate the hi-rail wheel sets.

Here's some pictures of my first Atlas master conversions... Susie-Q steel boxcars.



And you all are right, because I designed the hybrid shim using a factory Atlas one, and copied its thickness, which was designed for two rail, it was too thin.

So I had to add extra washers between it and the Kadee box for the three rail trucks.

I'm ok with this... I'm going to have to change the drawing to increase the thickness slightly. I'll keep this design as a "two rail" hybrid shim, and the other will be a three rail shim.

Thanks,
Mario