CPR # 29

I'm a bit surprised MTH hasn't done a CP 4-4-0 along with their 19th century passenger cars.

It looks to be in good enough condition to resurrect. 

Don

It looks fast... Really fast.  Light rail with no tie plates, hang on.

Looks real good! Is #29 displayed indoors?

rail posted:

It looks to be in good enough condition to resurrect. 

Don

Not sure what the real condition of this one is.  This one was operational in the 1980s until being in the fire at Salem & Hillsborough Railroad in 1994.  Railroad never really recovered, and the engine ended up going to Calgary.

Kevin

#29 is displayed outdoors in front of the building that was CP's headquarters, after moving from Montreal.

   Of course, Headquaters has been moved to Ogden shops now

 Al

#29 was the most handsome of the three Canadian Pacific 4-4-0's that survived into 1960 - - - in regular service !  CPR steam finished in about July/Aug 1960 in Montreal (15 locomotives on house steam in St. Luc/Montreal roundhouse) but 136 ran into April on the Chipman-Norton, NB branch, then led the famous triple headed May 1st, 1960 fan trip, with two D10 ten-wheelers. Max Gray did an O Scale model of #144.  The build dates for the 3 4-4-0's were in the 1880's, but they were re-boilered in the 'teens.

It's interesting to contemplate the fickle hand of fate, as these elderly Standards were among the last steam locomotives in regular service in North America (ex-Mexico), accompanied by such modern brutes as Missabe 2-8-8-4's and N&W Y6b's !

Here's a batch of photos of Canadian Pacific 4-4-0's in their last years of service.......including #29:            http://www.trainweb.org/oldtim...tos/cpr_steam/A2.htm

Above photos from the Ron Wright collection - the May 1st, 1960 triple header.

 For those who are historically inclined, the same day Frances Gary Powers was shot down by the Russians in the U2 spy plane.

A bit surprised that an engine on display outside the railroad headquarters wouldn't have been under some cover.

Hunter did not scrap ir?

Nope. It's still operational in Ontario  on my old stomping grounds  the  Beeton subdivision.

 I would like to get one for my roster. I saw an old All-Nation 4-4-0, 2 rail scale that was in a collection. It looked pretty easy to kitbash into one of these handsome locos.

   I have two MTH 64' woodsided coaches that are waiting to be repainted into CPR tuscan with black roof.

   I would like this engine, #2816 and #5931 in one location here in Calgary. Frustrating not being able to see 2816 ever again...lol

Al

Gregg posted:

Nope. It's still operational in Ontario  on my old stomping grounds  the  Beeton subdivision.

Wow! Pretty amazing the #136 was built in Paterson, NJ less than ten miles from where I live.

There's another elderly (1880's) Canadian Pacific Ry Standard prowling around Canada. That being ex-City of Winnipeg Hydro 4-4-0 built by Dubs of Scotland.  It operates on the Prairie Dog Central outside Winnipeg, MB.  

Hey! There's D10 #1057 in Mark's post! I have the 3rd Rail model of it!

Mark . . .

Memory can be a strange thing. That said, I rode CP commuter trains on Montreal's West Island in the early to mid 1960s. I swear that steamers were the norm during rush hours well past that date in mid 1960 you mention. Dayliners (RDCs) were the usual power on off hours. In fact, the only diesel I recall from those years was E8A #1800 which I recall only once pulling a commuter train.

I have nothing to back me up, and, again, memory can be faulty, but I feel steamers were pulling West Island commuter trains well into the early 60s? Say until 1962 or so?

You have any idea how the date of the last steam run on the CP can be verified?

Terry - The end of Canadian Pacific steam in Montreal commuter service was in June 1960, and that was perhaps just a very temporary diesel shortage, with a run or two. I cajoled my poor parents into a trip to Montreal for Mid-July 1960, contacted the CPR Public Relations Dept for information and appropriate releases, went to Windsor Station HQ to obtain all.  The only steam locomotives that were live in mid-July were the 15 engines on house steam in the modern St. Luc freight yard roundhouse - on stand-by call.  Included in the group were a couple of engines that had been in commuter service earlier in the year - - - Royal Hudsons 2822 and 2820 plus heavy Pacific #2459.  Also in the line-up was today's standard Hudson 2816, "The Princess". Toss in Mikados, another heavy Pacific, #2334, and light Pacific #1270.  The smallest steamer in the group was Consolidation #3642, which had been the regular Windsor Station switch engine earlier.  In the August 1960 Trains there was speculation that 3 steam locomotives were in service at Trois Rivier, PQ, but don't believe that to have been true. "Trains" further speculated that more steam could be fired up in winter, for the St. Lawrence R freeze over - but it never happened. The only steam movement after July 1960 was a Hudson, used for temporary boiler service at Windsor Station.

For sure, earlier in the year, winter 1959-1960, steam was active on commuters, on the Quebec Central and a couple of other pockets around Quebec, such as Megantic. Perhaps a bit of CPR steam activity lingered into spring at Winnipeg, but I have never seen a report confirming that. Steam was very active around Winnipeg on both the CNR and CPR through 1959 (CNR's final regular service steam run was a passenger train, Winnipeg to The Pas, MB, pulled by a conventional Mountain, #6043, in April 1960. That equated almost precisely with the last steam freight runs on the GTW in MI)

Do check out the Ron Wright photo web site - he's a bit older then me, and got to Montreal in the winter of 1959-1960.  I was just a shade too young to get parental approval for a solo run up to Montreal at that time !

http://rwrightrr.com/photos/pbr.asp?road=CPR

Terry - Good old D10 #1057 is at the South Simcoe RR museum, along with 4-4-0 #136 - - both in pristene condition. 

Many thanks for these posts, Mark.

I am a bit flabberghasted that my memory can be so wrong on the matter. Most unfortunately, years, distance, life and too many deaths have  separated me from any materials I could use to document with certainty, the date of my move to Pointe Claire on West Island. I thought it was mid-1959. That was when daily commuter trips to school commenced. And steamers seemed "the norm" for quite some time after that.

That they disappeared so quickly surprises me as I just do not recall it as being so. Make no mistake in that I do not dispute "the record," as you have stated it to be.

Unfortunately also, my interest in trains waned a bit in those days. I had a camera . . . but did not see fit to use it on the world disappearing before my eyes. I was oblivious to the change. Film was expensive for a young person, both to buy and to process. How I wish I had photographed those steamers! Truth be told, steamers were "old hat" and diesels were where the excitement was! Fancy that!

I seem to believe the south shore commuter train was pulled by steam  across the Victoria bridge and then to St Hilaire   and this   would have been around 1966 67   ............

Terry - There was still an abundance of Canadian Pacific steam operating in Montreal commuter service and general freight in mid-1959.  Do check the Ron Wright website - you will see that your mind and recall is fully intact !  December, 1959:  

It seems steam lasted in Canada longer than most of the US.  Were the Canadian railroads more conservative during this time?

The heck of it is, steam expired in Canada almost contiguous with it's mainline demise in the USA - - - CNR done April '60, CPR done July/early Aug '60, DMIR done July '60, N&W done May '60.  Oh, a couple of steam outliers continued after those major points - - - Northern Alberta Ry, Nov '60, Sydney & Louisburg, 1961, D&RGW narrow Gauge, Mar '68, C&S 2-8-0 #641, Nov 62. But, the big, mainline steam show was done by summer 1960.

Mexico gave us a solid 2-3 year reprieve, to about 1964 (although a bit of helper action out of the Valle de Mexico yard to about 1967). Fortunately steam fan trip activity picked up, starting with Southern 4501 in 1966.

Canada was slow to dieselize because the CPR and CNR are big railroads, with large motive power rosters. It took time, and capital, which tends to be budgeted progressively. CNR also had an additional overlay, of politics. It was government-owned in those days and diesels were going to displace thousands of workers......and voters !