Cruise Commander problem - No headlight

Check the polarity of the LED, the output from the RxLC (headlight does operate from the cruise commander) is a negative voltage. 

 

One way to check polarity is backwards on the LED wires, is to try conventional mode. If it lights up in conv mode but not command mode, you have the LED wires reversed.

Try a 470 ohm 1/2W resistor across the headlight outputs.  You can put it right at the Cruise Commander in the screw terminals for the light and the other end to ground.

 

The Cruise Commander is supposed to handle LED's, but the resistor is necessary for other TMCC installations, perhaps this particular sample has an issue with the load.

 

Of course Jon is right, you have to have it wired with the correct polarity, probably a more logical issue!

So this is a triac output? Interesting about the led being in reversed if it comes on in conventional. It sounds like the output just halfwaves for tmcc and is on full wave for conventional...because of running at lowered voltage.

I've had issues with triacs needing a small linear load, like the resistor John mentioned. Is that the case?

Great LED's Now I have to open her back up....Anyone do LED's in one of these yet

Chuck, Yes, the problem is the LED current draw is so small the TRIAC doesn't stay on.  G

The Cruise Commander is supposed to have a load for the triac to eliminate the resistor.  I think Jon was probably correct, it's just wired backwards.

 

Yes, in conventional mode, the lighting and smoke triacs pass AC track power, in command mode they pass half-wave rectified track power.  I posted some waveforms some time back when talking about the smoke triac.

 

The Cruise Commander (and other ElectricRR products) have an elegant solution for keeping the load current sufficient to keep the TRIAC on when triggered, without any load resistors. 

 

Load resistors are not the best solution as they require about a 1/2 watt rating, and as such are bulky, and they heat up. 

 

The load resistor is not required on the ElectricRR product: including: Cruise Commander, Mini Commander, Mini Commander2, AC Commander, DC Commander, and any new designs will incorporate the needed circuitry to eliminate the load resistor requirement.

 

Shawn, It is not recommended to place the sound board above the R4LC/Driver board as the switching power supply on the sound board will impact the TMCC signal strength on the radio.

 

If you have room, keep the sound board separated from the control electronics for optimum operation.

 

 

Jon, what is the elegant solution you guys use, I was curious as I didn't see any obvious signs on the Cruise Commander of a load resistor.

 

I agree the load resistor isn't ideal, but if you have a standard TMCC rig with the R2LC, what are the other options?

 

Ouch - 

 

I was wondering if there would be issues with sticking the sound board over an R4LC board, but the manual for the new RailSounds board has a picture of it installed that way, so that's what I did. Guess I'd better go back and change it. Maybe the manual should have noted that type of install was not optimal.

 

Jim 

Two pictures in fact...stuck to the back of the R4LC with sticky foam.

Jon,

 

You would think with a engine this size there would be a better place for the sound board. But nada. I could have mounted it sideways in the tank area. But, don't really trust the double sided tape mounting. I believe the manual even mentioned putting it on top?

 

So, I could change the headights to LED bulbs. As long as the polarity anode/cathode is correct.

Have you noticed any communication issues with the sound board there?

no, but, I could lift the height with thicker foam tape...You have looked at the new manual?

Jon,

 

Why is the sound so 'whimpy' as opposed to RS4...

Yes, but you do need a current limiting resistor, and I suggest a diode as well. 

 

You can mount the RS board on the top of the shell with double-sided foam tape, that will give you a little space between the boards.

 

 

 I found the sound of the new RS Commander to be significantly better than the older RS4 version.  Are you sure the wimpy sound isn't your speaker or it's enclosure?

yes, so it can fall down with age and blow everything out. I was never a fan of double sided tape....

Yes

 

Maybe. Adhesives release with slow steady tension...like gravity.

I think you sell the new adhesives short, but whatever works for you.

I have pretty good luck with that 3M gray stuff? Not sure if you can attach it directly to a circuit though. And of course you have to clean surfaces of overspray and mold release, etc.

Tom, any news on the subject...the headlight?

Jon,

 

I used the enclosed speaker with the kit---on the final finished job. The audio is clear.

But, doesn't seem to have the volume level of railsounds 4. I understand that the specified output into a certain load may be the same. But, I can tell there is a reasonable difference. I mean it seems as the board has been limited to it's non-distortion point with the pot?

 

It is apparent that the size of the board is a great feature. (price point,too) But, my perception on the level of audio is real. It is what it is--a great product for the price.

 

Your product design is the best Lionel has had in years...in my opinion...so a little feedback should be taken well...from a top notch designer..

Man, do I feel stupid... Switched the wires and everything works fine.  I over thought this one.  I read and re-read the instruction manual, had a meter testing the outputs and all kinds of other diagnostic stuff.  Never thought about the polarity being reversed.  Thanks guys.  I should have checked here first.

 

Tom

Thanks for the update.

So, does anyone know if the LED replacement bulbs available at some of the shows are

the correct polarity for the way the light circuitry is wired on a standard engine?

On a conventional engine the polarity doesn't matter as AC voltage is being fed to them.

Ron

I would guess that the center contact would be positive, but a tiny diode bridge inside would be nice nice to commute the polarity of DC.

Shawn, If they are pure LED than the red wire is meant to be positive.  If they are the modified screw in type, as mentioned above they are fed by AC and have a built in diode and current limiting resistor to work properly.  Just screw in.

 

The issue being discussed is that some R2LC invert the half sine wave so it is a DC pulse and so where you connect the red lead of an LED matters.  A bulb wouldn't care.  G

You assume facts not in evidence GGG.  All the replacement LED bulbs I have use a single diode and the center contact is positive as Chuck says.  Connected the other way, they will not work on the R2LC outputs.  I have them from several vendors in both screw and bayonet base models.

 

shawn, you'd wire the center contact to the ground connection and wire the outside shell of the bulb socket to the light socket.  Note that you MUST isolate the whole bulb socket from the chassis in order to use these.

 

I have used some in ham radio 12vdc pilot light areas without thinking and they worked. I can't remember if they were specifically meant for dc, plus on the center pin. Seems like if I made them, they would be center plus. Then they would be useful for more applications other than just AC.

But, in the case of the Cruise Commander which puts out ac for conventional and half wave for TMCC, according to Jon, the output is negative. Is that true? So that's negative from ground on the frame of the engine?

Guess I need to take something apart...

 

It is indeed negative in respect to frame ground in command mode.  In conventional mode, it's AC track voltage.  I posted some waveforms previously for what the triacs put out.  For reference, the smoke triac puts out a positive half-wave rectified signal in command mode and AC in conventional.  Not sure why they reversed the polarity of that output.

 

John, I did not make assumptions.  It doesn't matter if the feed is pure AC.  READ my post again.  They can just be plugged in.  Like a PW engine or any other engine that runs lights off track power.  My last sentence clearly mentioned half sine wave or DC pulse of the TMCC R2LC where the connection matters.

 

So there is nothing wrong with my statement.  G

Since shawn has been talking about a command engine throughout the thread, he will have to consider polarity.  He specifically asked about a replacement LED bulb, and it will care about polarity with the R2LC.  If you dragged a conventional locomotive into the thread, that's where the confusion comes in, as nobody else was talking about them.

 

John,  To use a term you used to embarrass another forum member..."What planet are you from"?   It is clear you skip read.  First this was Tom's subject not Shawn's.  Shawn jumped in and the conversation was all over.  At the point Shawn asked a question about LED it didn't seem specific to TMCC, in fact he used the term "standard engine" what ever that is.  Ron gave an answer about AC engines not mattering, and I refined Ron's answer to address standard LED, and screw in LED in an AC application or a TMCC half sine wave application.

 

So again nothing I stated was wrong, but you have to jump in with an insult or sarcasm.  It seems you make assumptions to make your point of view the only correct one.

 

These become historical post others can learn from, so it doesn't hurt if there is a little more detail in the answer.  G

boys-come on...its suppose to be fun. I got all excited reading this post. Just finished a command upgrade...closing her up..and bang...good idea...leds. I asked because the forum members here have done some of these mods. I could pull out the scope. But why bother -if one of you has already done it. GGG - thanks- you to john....

 

I enjoyed it too...even the smiley and implied smirky faces. It also made me look into my Williams GP9, which for some reason, I originally left the lights wired to the track. I rewired them to the TAS front and rear headlight connectors and it's kind of like a new engine. More features.

So thanks for all the information from all you guys and especially this time from GGG, John, and Jon (alphabetical order  ).