Custom Fairbanks Morse Train Master???

I the early days of mth diesels, they didn't really have product numbers. I have a contrail c30-7 from 94 that's the same way.  The older electronics can be a little fickle but in conventional operations they usually work just fine. Just open it up carefully and look at the battery. It will look like a 9 volt. If it's white throw it away and order a green one. The white ones are original and can leak. 

There's another item called a bcr or battery component replacement which can be used as well, but for your purposes a battery will do fine.

jhz563 posted:

I the early days of mth diesels, they didn't really have product numbers. I have a contrail c30-7 from 94 that's the same way.  The older electronics can be a little fickle but in conventional operations they usually work just fine. Just open it up carefully and look at the battery. It will look like a 9 volt. If it's white throw it away and order a green one. The white ones are original and can leak. 

There's another item called a bcr or battery component replacement which can be used as well, but for your purposes a battery will do fine.

My locomotive actually doesn't have a battery in it, I opened her up this morning and checked, nothing resembling a battery except for the can motors or the lead weight

I took a closer look at the box label and I see it says "optionally available" with protosound.  I didn't catch this at first.  In that case your engine probably only has a horn, not a full sound package.  This being the case there is no need for a battery.  The section of the electronics that generally has problems in the older proto-sound units, (often referred to as ps1), is the sound package.  So overall I would say you are in good shape.  This would also help date the engine as likely being from the  late '90's.  I am sure some else could help more.  If you really have a specific question about the engine just call mth.  

The biggest thing it needs is likely a lube job.  If you really wanted to go hog wild you could learn how to replace the wick for the smoke system, but I wouldn't bother personally. 

Enjoy your engine.

JHZ563

Part of the continuing education mission of this forum...

A "Trainmaster" is a middle management company officer at a railroad.

"Train Master" is the proper trade name for this Fairbanks Morse locomotive.

jhz563 posted:

I took a closer look at the box label and I see it says "optionally available" with protosound.  I didn't catch this at first.  In that case your engine probably only has a horn, not a full sound package.  This being the case there is no need for a battery.  The section of the electronics that generally has problems in the older proto-sound units, (often referred to as ps1), is the sound package.  So overall I would say you are in good shape.  This would also help date the engine as likely being from the  late '90's.  I am sure some else could help more.  If you really have a specific question about the engine just call mth.  

The biggest thing it needs is likely a lube job.  If you really wanted to go hog wild you could learn how to replace the wick for the smoke system, but I wouldn't bother personally. 

Enjoy your engine.

JHZ563

could I still operate the engine with DCS?

Only via the variable channel/s, in-effect using DCS as a glorified remote-controlled transformer handle rather than command control.

---PCJ

Rich - at least he didn't type "Trainmaster's" meaning more than one?  

I was hoping to see a "Custom" Train Master.  I did several "Baby" Train Masters for Jim Seacrest a while back.  The CNW paint scheme is striking.

Bob2 , I stumbled on your early H16-66 conversions , just minutes ago ...

are you on Facebook ?

those would look real nice on my Fairbanks Morse Locomotive Enthusiast FB page ... maybe an explanation of how you did it ( or , is it trade secret ? )

thank you !

dave Prasse

The Custom Trains  FM Train Master was basically  Mike's first   Lionel type O gauge engine.   Most came in a white box, but at the very end, an MTH style box was possible.  The second run had fly wheel motors and later, optional QSI sound.

OGR Webmaster posted:

Part of the continuing education mission of this forum...

A "Trainmaster" is a middle management company officer at a railroad.

"Train Master" is the proper trade name for this Fairbanks Morse locomotive.

It is sometimes easier to clarify as an H24-66  

,...or easier to muddy the waters using the Pennsy parlance of FF24

Dave - no secrets here.  The K-Line body has a sweet spot where you can remove an inch, rejoin the two halves, and not see the line at all.  It helps to reinforce on the inside by glueing styrene on the sides of one half before final joining.

My conversions were of course 2-rail, and NWSL was nice enough to provide all the same kinds of axles so that pickup did not require wipers.  Insulation was almost automatic - the steel floorboards had to be cut, so I took more than an inch out and bolted the floor halves together with wood (plastic? I forget).

Piece of cake - but only MILW & CNW used the 16-66 with this body.  I will double-check that - TVA may have used one, or Squaw Creek.

Here we go:

Mason Rascona posted:

jhz563 posted:

I took a closer look at the box label and I see it says "optionally available" with protosound.  I didn't catch this at first.  In that case your engine probably only has a horn, not a full sound package.  This being the case there is no need for a battery.  The section of the electronics that generally has problems in the older proto-sound units, (often referred to as ps1), is the sound package.  So overall I would say you are in good shape.  This would also help date the engine as likely being from the  late '90's.  I am sure some else could help more.  If you really have a specific question about the engine just call mth.  

The biggest thing it needs is likely a lube job.  If you really wanted to go hog wild you could learn how to replace the wick for the smoke system, but I wouldn't bother personally. 

Enjoy your engine.

JHZ563

could I still operate the engine with DCS?

This engine is not equipped with dcs.  You can operate through a dcs system the same way you could any other conventional engine, by using the variable track power outage.  If you want a programmable engine it will need to be upgraded.

bob2 posted:

Here we go:

 

Very sharp ... 

what about a he early style H16-66 with the Baldwin style trucks you shared? Custom built or Brass ?

This is not a custom paint job but a first run uncataloged item from MTH from the early 1990s and were really quite revolutionary for their increased quality and features from lionel and Williams models available at that time. I had to wait a decade to see actual proof they existed. They were quite the piece to possess at that time and I never saw anyone who would put a price on them. Alas, they have become irrelevant compared to the much improved models that appeared over the next 2 1/2 decades. Frankly, this is true of much early MTH that revolutionized the hobby, kind of like the IBM XT.

rdg_fan posted:

This is not a custom paint job but a first run uncataloged item from MTH from the early 1990s and were really quite revolutionary for their increased quality and features from lionel and Williams models available at that time. I had to wait a decade to see actual proof they existed. They were quite the piece to possess at that time and I never saw anyone who would put a price on them. Alas, they have become irrelevant compared to the much improved models that appeared over the next 2 1/2 decades. Frankly, this is true of much early MTH that revolutionized the hobby, kind of like the IBM XT.

I remember when the first Railking steam engines came out.  Quite the to do.  A die cast engine at an affordable price point.  The originals had a casting for a smoke on off switch, but shipped without it.  Eventually they supplied the switch.  The first run of diesels were Dash 8s if I remember correctly.  My collection is replete with early MTH product.  They were state of the art at the time as mentioned.  Obladi, oblada ...

Dave - the early 16-66 is a modified brass casting with built-up trucks.  Body was slightly customized; paint and decals make it really custom.  I would rather have had early sand-cast truck sideframes, but the built-up ones will do.

I note that you are a real F-M roadie.  My exciting new project is a cast brass Erie-Built.  I have sand cast roof and trucks from "L V Shops", and have arranged for a pair of sand cast sides to hopefully match.  The nose went out yesterday to a lost-plastic artist.

Thanks all who have helped me find out the origin of this locomotive, I think I'll get 2 Lackawanna train master diesels to haul a coal train or even a phoebe Snow passenger train. Who makes good Trainmaster diesels? I'm leaning towards getting a maroon roof Lionel version in the future, maybe even two 

thanks again, Mason Rascona 

I personally believe the K-Line model is the best 3 rail model of the Train Master ever built.  While mine is only a conventional version coming out of the K-Line club days when these retailed for $100, it has the best detail of any of the ones I have run across.  The brass two rail version from Sunset is absolutely stunning, but not easy to find, two rail, and they run about $700 used. 

I believe there was a TMCC version of the K-line model as well.

Here is an absolutely awful photo of mine.

There is indeed a TMCC version of the K-Line Train Master, I have the PRR model, TMCC, cruise, and RailSounds.  It even has smoke.  It's a very nice running model.  Oddly, Legacy K-Line doesn't mention the cruise in the details, but the CC usually signifies cruise.

K2480-8701CC PRR Trainmaster w/Lionel RailSounds, TMCC, Smoke & Electrocouplers

I agree with Jonathon that the K-Line Train Master is really quite well done, especially for the price.  I have one each of the Lackawanna and Virginian, both acquired on ebay for $100 or $110 after waiting patiently for the right price.  Neither of them is the TMCC version.  The ultimate goal is to 2-rail both of them and decorate them in the demonstrator paint scheme.  I've 2-railed the trucks on the Virginian, but have not yet split the frame, attached the pilots to the frame, or fabricated KD coupler mountings.  I haven't started on the Lackawanna model.

The railroad I model - Western Maryland - never had FMs, but they did test the eastern pair of demonstrators, TM-1 and TM-2, in freight service.  I never understood why anyone would want to buy a model in the builder's demonstrator paint scheme until I saw a picture of the two FMs being tested on the WM.  Having been brought up on Lionel, I always had a soft spot in my heart (head) for the Train Master.  Now I've found my excuse to own a couple.  But that leads to the next problem:  the paint scheme.

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of duplicating the demonstrator paint scheme?  I welcome your advice.

I too think the K-Line offering was spectacular, and at a hundred bucks it was a steal.  I do not like plastic models, yet I have three.

But what about that MTH version?  From photos, it looked like they deliberately tried to out-do K-Line.  I have not seen one in the flesh.

bob2 posted:

I too think the K-Line offering was spectacular, and at a hundred bucks it was a steal.  I do not like plastic models, yet I have three.

But what about that MTH version?  From photos, it looked like they deliberately tried to out-do K-Line.  I have not seen one in the flesh.

My MTH loco is just a repaint of the postwar tooling, since my railroad is "The North Eastern Pennsylvania Railroad" a piece of Reading equipment is kind of odd, I'm gonna invest more money into Lackawanna, Erie Lackawanna, and (hopefully) Delaware Lackawanna or Genesee Valley. My MTH Trainmaster is my only diesel locomotive so I think I'll try to get the Norfolk Southern Lackawanna Heritage unit by Lionel (with Dummy and Caboose). I just recieved my first piece of Lackawanna equipment, a K line heavyweight Railway Post Office car but was advertised as an Erie Lackawanna RPO car on eBay, I peeled off the bad decals and I'm still happy with it. 

sincerely -Mason Rascona

Now you have me "sucked in."  I have my share of F-M models, so cannot imagine why I care.

There are apparently two types of 3-rail Train Masters.  Lots of differences, but let me offer a major spotting feature:  the original Lionel, and Williams and MTH reproduction, all have little square openings in the aft hood where the fans are.

K-Line went whole hog and did a very good scale version, and back where those square holes were, K-Line put screens - very high quality realistic screens. k-Line also had six axle drive - critical for us 2-railers.

Now Lionel offers what appears to be the K-Line body on trucks with fewer axles powered.  The Demo paint scheme is available for cheap if you look hard enough:

Part 6-18340 gets you a pair for $750 with TMCC, on eBay at the moment.  You can also pay $1200 if you want.  Doesn't seem to be any shortage . . .

Am I correct? Is that the k-Line body?

Another feature is the width of the body shell, I believe the early Lionel models with the Pullmor motor was a bit wider to accommodate the motor.  The later can motored versions are a bit slimmer.

Regarding the F-M demonstrator paint scheme:

The Lionel demonstrator models that I've seen at shows are beautiful in terms of detail and graphics; although, to me the orange color seems a bit dull.  I don't know anything about the mechanicals or electronics; however, Bob2 stated above that only two axles on each truck are powered.  $750 may or may not be a fair price, but I'm already committed with the two K-line models, so I won't be lightening my wallet to get two more and then starting over with 2-railing them. 

Ten or 15 years ago, MTH also made a Train Master in the demonstrator paint scheme with QSI electronics.  I found one on ebay for about $100 and bought it to use as a guide for masking and painting, as well as to scan the side for making a decal from the "TRAIN MASTER" graphic, all of which may beyond my capability.  Why not just swap the body shells? you ask.  Because the MTH body is a knock off of the 1950s Lionel shell, clearly a step backwards.  MTH has since come out with a with a much better detailed version of the TM.  From the pictures, they look to be as nice as the K-line and Lionel, but I haven't looked at them first hand.  I don't know if they have put the demonstrator paint scheme on the newer version.

"There are apparently two types of 3-rail Train Masters.  Lots of differences, but let me offer a major spotting feature:  the original Lionel, and Williams and MTH reproduction, all have little square openings in the aft hood where the fans are.

K-Line went whole hog and did a very good scale version, and back where those square holes were, K-Line put screens - very high quality realistic screens. k-Line also had six axle drive - critical for us 2-railers."

There are/were 2 sets of MTH Train Master tooling:

1 - the model of a model version, which emulates - like the Williams - the PW Lionel version, big screw head and all, as I understand. I do not have one.

2 - the model of an FM Train Master version, which models, well, the actual locomotive (as does the K-line version). I do have one of these, a Southern Railway dummy. Furthermore, MTH is the only one to have properly modeled the SOU version, as that railroad had a different pilot deck arrangement from most (all?) other FM TM's. I was impressed that they did this. The K-line SOU version looks very nice, but has incorrect pilot features for a SOU Train Master.

I found the SOU MTH TM hard to find, especially at a rational price, a couple of years ago, when my dummy version came up at a high but not painful price, so I grabbed it.

The good MTH and the K-line versions are much nicer models than the PW emulations, so buyers need to be careful, if it matters. I almost bid on the wrong type when I was shopping for my SOU version. The PW versions leave me nonplussed.

I suspect the Lionel new TM is the K-Line with their old truck.  Maybe Lionel would sell bodies only?

I have purchased Diesel bodies from both MTH and Atlas for conversion to metal.  Prices were not that bad.

I happen to know that Lionel has bodies that they will sell for the Legacy model.  I bought one when Mike Reagan was still there for the Wabash Train Master as mine was in bad shape, the previous owner had dropped it.  They had a number of "scrap" shells for the Wabash, he picked out the best looking one.  I couldn't see why it was "scrap", it looks great, and I was happy to get it.

Doug from Baltimore posted:

......  Because the MTH body is a knock off of the 1950s Lionel shell, clearly a step backwards.  MTH has since come out with a with a much better detailed version of the TM.  From the pictures, they look to be as nice as the K-line and Lionel, but I haven't looked at them first hand.  I don't know if they have put the demonstrator paint scheme on the newer version.

 

I have multiples of the original MTH Demonstrators , a custom painted version of the early MTH Demonstrator ( ok , ok , I’m an FM fanatic 😂) , and have a question ...

How interchangeable are the original MTH bodies with the Post War lionel chassis ?  I’d like to swap one of y Demonstrators  bodies onto a PW chassis ... 

Hi DPRASSE,

I don't know the answer to your question, as I don't have an original Lionel T/M.  The two screws holding the shell to the frame seem to be in the same location as Lionel's and the overall dimensions appear to be the same.  Also, the hand rails are of the same appearance and attachment as the Lionel originals.  It should be easy enough to do a test fit.

I like T/Ms because Lionel did them first.  I still like them, but now for other reasons.  The company history is interesting to me, as they tried to enter the steam-to-diesel transition market, up against the likes of EMD, Alco, and GE.  (See TRAINS magazine March & April 1987.)  I like T/M O-scale models only to the extent that they can be (or already are) 2-railed and have a higher level of detail.  The K-Line T/Ms are a good example, for a very reasonable price.  I like the demonstrator paint scheme, because you can realistically run them on any railroad, even those that never owned any of them, such as the Western Maryland -- my current love-interest.  I have a copy of at least one photo of the eastern demonstrators (TM-1 & -2) operating on the Western Maryland.

For anyone with a more general interest in other Fairbanks Morse O-scale models, Rivarossi made a plastic model of the F-M C-Liner, which basically has the same cab and body configuration as an F-3.  As far as I know, they only made them in 2-rail.  By adding a rectifier and inside-third-rail pickups, one could probably get them to run on the new 3-rail track systems and possibly even tubular rail.

dPrasse posted:

Bob2 , I stumbled on your early H16-66 conversions , just minutes ago ...

are you on Facebook ?

those would look real nice on my Fairbanks Morse Locomotive Enthusiast FB page ... maybe an explanation of how you did it ( or , is it trade secret ? )

 

thank you !

 

dave Prasse

 

 Some great Fairbanks-Morse sound from another source  

Mason, Your FM is not an early production model nor is it a Custom Trains model in a MTH box.  It has always been my understanding that MTH did a limited run of Reading FMs for a train club in Pennsylvania many years ago.  I suspect that is what the script is all about along the lower portion of the shell.

dPrasse posted:

Doug from Baltimore posted:

......  Because the MTH body is a knock off of the 1950s Lionel shell, clearly a step backwards.  MTH has since come out with a with a much better detailed version of the TM.  From the pictures, they look to be as nice as the K-line and Lionel, but I haven't looked at them first hand.  I don't know if they have put the demonstrator paint scheme on the newer version.

 

I have multiples of the original MTH Demonstrators , a custom painted version of the early MTH Demonstrator ( ok , ok , I’m an FM fanatic 😂) , and have a question ...

How interchangeable are the original MTH bodies with the Post War lionel chassis ?  I’d like to swap one of y Demonstrators  bodies onto a PW chassis ... 

If you had the Car and Locomotive Shops 2 rail FM demos you'd probably have close to ten grand for each set TM1/TM2 or TM3/TM4 set. 

Don't remember if Henry Bultmann did both TM1/TM2 and TM3/TM4 but I know he did do the demos and they are worth many grand each.

Wonder if there is enough demand for Sunset to do a modern run of the H-24-66?  Would love a TM1/TM2 demonstrator set.

Rule292 posted:

Wonder if there is enough demand for Sunset to do a modern run of the H-24-66?  Would love a TM1/TM2 demonstrator set.

It would have to be done in brass since there is insufficient interest to do 500 units or more in plastic. If you will be in Strasburg in a few weeks you can talk to me about it. I will be at my usual spot near the entrance doors. i would also like a demonstrator set of the Train Masters.

R.Heil    Sunset Models / 3rd Rail / Golden Gate Depot

If you are interested in FM demos, why not 2rail a Lionel ccll demo set?

bob2 posted:

Dave -

I note that you are a real F-M roadie.  My exciting new project is a cast brass Erie-Built.  I have sand cast roof and trucks from "L V Shops", and have arranged for a pair of sand cast sides to hopefully match.  The nose went out yesterday to a lost-plastic artist.

I finally found one Atlas Erie Built loco ,a  dummy ... was looking for thecMilwaukee Rd , but , Pennsy will do ... just need to find a powered gal , now ...

since I have a pair of The a Rivarossi C-Liners , maybe I should 2 rail my FM Diesel collection , just to be different ?!

Who said you can't have a WM Trainmaster.

Note to Dprasse - happy to share photos.  Find a forum that does ""PMs" and shoot me your e-mail.

Shortening these things is trivial - you take 1" (four feet) out in a strategic location on the long hood.  The match is invisible.  Then for 2-rail you cut the steel floor, and join the halves with wood or plastic, for insulation.