CW-80 (Revised 2021)

Joining the ranks of most other CW80 owners, mine failed last week. I didn't have the patience to pull out the circuit board and attempt a repair but I did save its internal 18 VAC transformer for future use.

The fixed-output Z1000 won't work stand-alone for conventional trains unless it is used with the MTH Z-Controller which provides the bell, whistle and variable voltage output.  (Yes, a TIU can be used to control Z1000 voltage output but it is not kid friendly.)

The Z1000 and Z-Controller combo sells for about $140. While the Z1000 outputs a pure sinewave, the Z-Controller chops it up much like the CW80 output.

Good to know (I am pretty new into O scale, about 1.5 years, spent decades in HO and a few years in N.  Still in HO scale but focus has been all O since end of 2020).

Is the Z-Controller the throttle portion that the power brick plugs into?  Is this what chops the sine wave?  I purchased them the power brick and controller together and just assumed that all of that was considered the Z-1000.

  Regardless, they seem to be working fine with the few conventional locos (3) on my son's layout.  All the remainder locos are Lion Chief, TMCC and a couple of Legacy locos.  Command control locos are being controlled either with Legacy, the lion chief remote or app.  My yet to be built O scale layouts are all Legacy / TMCC locos with the option to run conventional.  I have a new ZW & Base 3 pre-ordered for my primary layout (to be built).

I purchased them the power brick and controller together and just assumed that all of that was considered the Z-1000.

@PEBCAK2015 posted:

I purchased 2 CW-80's for my son's 4x8 layout and have had problems with both. First failed CW-80 voltage would not reduce to zero when throttle was set to 0. At throttle position 0, the transformer was still putting out 10.5 volts. This has been RMA repaired by Lionel (in route to me now).

The second CW-80 did the same thing but then stopped powering on entirely. This is also going back to Lionel for RMA. Most likely both were cause by minor derailments on my son's small 4x8 layout and the internal fuse was blown. (my guess as Lionel did not state what the problem was). Note that I  used a GW-180 as a  fill in on this layout with no issues.

I have since installed 2 new MTH Z-1000 transformers and all appears well (just installed so can't verify 100%). I believe the Z-1000's will do a better job as the power bricks have a circuit breaker. So if there is a derailment, I can reset the breaker instead of an internal fuse being blown. Also, the Z-1000 were less expensive, has a bit more power (100W vs 80W), and from what I have read, the Z-1000 power (sine wave) is more compatible with MTH locos (though I do not own any at present, most my locos are all Lionel with 2 Williams).

I was hopeful that these revised CW-80's would have resolved the known issues with past CW-80's.  I went with these as a more budget friendly solution to power my son's 4x8 layout.  IMO, these are a terrible value given how easily they failed (very minor derailment of James on a turnout which killed the 2nd CW-80 instantly.) I will use one of the RMA CW-80 in a ceiling loop I am building in my office and the other one will probably be used for accessory power either on my primary layout or future expanded layout for my son.

According to the Lionel CW80 manual ...

"The fold-back current limit protects your transformer and layout from damage caused by severe overloads and short circuits in the case of derailments or objects falling on the track. At the same time, it prevents the inconvenience of nuisance tripping caused by momentary overloads. It continuously monitors the output current of both outputs. When there is an overload on either output, it will reduce the voltage on both outputs in a fraction of a second to hold the current at 5A. If the short circuit is not corrected in three seconds the transformer will interrupt power to both outputs. During the three seconds, the red light on the Controller will flash. Once the output is shut down, the red light will come on solid. Move the throttle to the Off position to reset the transformer and resume normal operation."

To clarify, when I mean by fail is that one CW-80 would go no lower that 10.5 volts when the throttle was set at 0 and the other cw-80 won't even power on anymore with no power output to any terminals.  Both are in the RMA process with Lionel (1st one is in transit to me while I have not shipped the second one yet).  The second CW-80 that wont power on is the one that was powering the track with the derailment on the turnout.   Red light flashed, I removed the fouling loco and immediately and then noticed that there were no lights illuminated on the CW-80.  No signs of life since, it's going back to Lionel.

IMO, I just think these are very poorly designed transformers and very much overpriced for what they are.  I was hesitant to purchase these based on all the data on the old units....but thought surely Lionel has worked out the demons with the 2021 revision.  To put into perspective I spent about $50 less per unit for the Z1000's than what I paid for the CW-80's.  Time will tell if these are a better solution.  The fact that the power bricks have a breaker where the CW-80 relies on internal not easy to access fuses I think is the main issue.  For how short the derailment was and the fact it appears that fuse or board toasted on the CW-80's I feel is a design flaw.  Derailments will happen and when they do it should not toast your power supply.

@PEBCAK2015 posted:

To clarify, when I mean by fail is that one CW-80 would go no lower that 10.5 volts when the throttle was set at 0

Yes, that happened to mine also. My CW-80 was no longer under warranty and I didn't want the expense or hassle of getting it repaired.

@PEBCAK2015 posted:

Is the Z-Controller the throttle portion that the power brick plugs into?  Is this what chops the sine wave?  I purchased them the power brick and controller together and just assumed that all of that was considered the Z-1000.

Yes and Yes!  Technically the Z1000 is just the black brick but often it is sold as a combo with the Z-Controller.

@PEBCAK2015

I'm baffled learning of your experiences with the newer CW80s. I used 2 of the older CW80s for years on my layout with never any problems. Recently on my passenger mainline with a powered F3A and a powered F3B pulling 7 lighted aluminum passenger cars, I found that I needed more than 80 watts for that line. So I changed the CW80 out for a Lionel 180w brick wired directly to the track for a quick solution and successful solution.  Now there's plenty of power on that line with a lightning-fast breaker.

But those 2 CW80s were flawless for many years. I'm hoping that with the repairs, yours will perform better.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

@PEBCAK2015

I used ... the older CW80s for years on my layout with never any problems.

I would have said the same thing 2 weeks ago, but mine just failed like several others have reported here in the forum over many years.  The CW80 was not stressed or abused. It just failed on startup.

@Bruce Brown posted:

I would have said the same thing 2 weeks ago, but mine just failed like several others have reported here in the forum over many years.  The CW80 was not stressed or abused. It just failed on startup.

Hmm . . .