DCS 5 bug?? or just a mistake

Joe,

Deleting a TIU deletes all of the engines with which the TIU is associated. I have deleted TIUs several times and at least once under DCS 5.0. Only those engines associated with the deleted TIU were removed from  the remote.

Be aware that an engine is associated with a TIU none of two ways:

• The engine is added while on a track connected to the TIU
• The engine was encountered by a READ while on a track connected to the TIU.

Whichever happened last causes the TIU/engine association.

Yep that happens  (aLL THE ENGINES ARE DELETED WITH NO WAY OF STOPPING IT.)but only in the 1 remote.  It's nice top have a spare remote for this type of thing... Deleting tiu, editing tiu. trying to find engines etc.  

 If operating in super mode are all the engines associated with every tiu?   I don't know for sure.

Thanks. I will look into this further then and see where I went wrong. I must have pressed that dreaded read button at some point with TIU #2 connected. I just don't remember using it on my O scale?

Interestingly, this afternoon I checked on this using DCS 5.0 in my remote and DCS 5.0 beta in my TIU. I found that when DCS states that it's removing engines,in actuality it removes no engines at all!

Tomorrow, I'll do a full test in both normal and super TIU modes,and I'll post my results.

Again, be aware that I'm usingbeta software in the TIU.

Hmmm. I have to go see if they're still in there. Sometimes........ OK, all the time, I walk away before things get worse.

Edit: I lost several engines and I imagine the consists too that they were in. I have to do a better comparison to see exactly which engines have been erased. I can clearly see that at least six or more are erased and many more addresses. Somewhere I have an old spread sheet that was kept for an engine list. Unfortunately it is not close to being up to date. To make things worse some engines were upgrades or had boards swapped so this could take me some time.

Joe,

This morning I confirmed the existence of a bug in DCS 5.0 when deleting a TIU that's in Super TIU mode. However, I must stress that the bug was found using DCS 5.0 beta software in the TIU. The remote software was DCS 5.0, production version, since no beta exists for the remote software.

I reset a remote, added TIUs #2 and #3, placed all 3 TIUs into Super TIU mode, and added 2 engines to each TIU.

When each TIU was selected for deletion and the thumbwheel was clicked to confirm, the display changed back to the TIU Setup menu without any delay and without deleting any engines. The remote ended up with no TIUs and all engines still in the Active Engine List.

I then reset the remote and repeated the above, however, this time I set all 3 TIUs to Normal TIU mode. All preceded as expected.

This has been reported to MTH.

Joe, there is no need to panic when locos get deleted froma remote IF you have backed up the remote to a computer using the Loader program.  If you have done this wise step, simply restore the remote from the computer and your back as before,  I keep one remote as the "master," to which locos etc are added or deleted.  Before making any changes to that remote, and afterwards, I back it up to the computer.  Then I close all remotes from the computer.  If a grandchild deletes locos from a remote or from the active list, I simply use the restore to return it to its earlier condition.  I am sure it will work with an "Engineer" as well as a grandchild.

I'd be nervous about pulling a battery while any type of programming or file saving is going one, for fear of creating a mess.

"OK, all the time, I walk away before things get worse." Walk away sooner.

Well thanks Barry. I'll still need to look further. I can't figure out why the O scale got deleted from the G scale's TIU?

I can only guess that years ago the engines were added to #1. That TIU became TIU #2. I sold that TIU to Ben and bought one from Marty. That got numbered #2 and was only used for G that I remember. All the O scale engines either got re-added to the new #1, or at least I used the read to locate them to run. Three years later after a couple of upgrades and the remote decides to delete them, is got me stumped.

 Having a computer backup of all the versions that have messed me up, let alone the volume of engines I add and move, is a logistical headache for me to keep up with. Add 2 grandkids constantly wanting to run the engine that's not available, or remotes forgetting addresses, or engines not coming out of inactive, I'm just getting frustrated more by the day.

We have a rule with the grandkids, run the engines that are on the track already. They hate that rule. I need to stay with it and enforce it better. Some days are headaches. Coming onto the forum publicly is something that I usually regret. Having someone lecture me on backups and when not to remove the batteries, is priceless.

Maybe I should have stayed with 2.x??? (2.4?)

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Joe,

This morning I confirmed the existence of a bug in DCS 5.0 when deleting a TIU that's in Super TIU mode. However, I must stress that the bug was found using DCS 5.0 beta software in the TIU. The remote software was DCS 5.0, production version, since no beta exists for the remote software.

I reset a remote, added TIUs #2 and #3, placed all 3 TIUs into Super TIU mode, and added 2 engines to each TIU.

When each TIU was selected for deletion and the thumbwheel was clicked to confirm, the display changed back to the TIU Setup menu without any delay and without deleting any engines. The remote ended up with no TIUs and all engines still in the Active Engine List.

I then reset the remote and repeated the above, however, this time I set all 3 TIUs to Normal TIU mode. All preceded as expected.

This has been reported to MTH.

I don't know where to start on this one... I had the same experience somewhat. The remote ended up with no tius but  on deletion of tiu #1(we add engines only to tiu #1 ). only one engine was in the active list and that one got deleted. Everything in the inactive list was saved.

I  tried editing the address of tiu  1to number 3 which went as it should.... however when I went to edit the  tiu back to tiu #1 I get an error message about having to add tiu  before editing can take place.   I had to add tiu #3 (it should have been there after editing from 1 to 3)  but it was not. After adding tiu 3 I could finally edit back to tiu #1.   This is quite different from earlier versions of the software.

I think Joe's running 3.1

Gregg,

I've edited TIUs several times under DCS 5.0 without any issues.

If this is the same remote that's experiencing some of the other issues that you've reported recently, I'd suggest that you consider using s different remote.

It's  a different remote, but the tiu were all in super.... I may have to reload the software although the layout is working really well. We even have the record playback working (not as good as a single tiu) but working. We think the secret is setting the 4 tiu to super every time before a recording..  We never have to reset   the tiu  to super when running the trains day after day. It just seems that if we do before a recording attempt it works.

go figure....

If you have a spare TIU, I'd recommend setting up (adding/editing) engines on a separate setup track with a separate TIU (it can also be TIU #1) using  a tethered connection of the remote. The tether connection turns off the radio on the remote and it only talks to the attached TIU. We have five TIUs on the club layout and this eliminated some Super-TIU issues, the most important being adding an engine and having it grab someone else's engineon the layout (and changing its number).

When I run, I usually run multiple locomotives since I run scale wheeled units. I put them on the setup track with the tether and execute a READ. It puts the engines in active mode without the time delay of reading the entire layout. Once done, I can place the locomotives on the staging track, start them, and build the lash-up without problems. The one Super TIU issue I do have is if an extended power loss disables the lash-up, in which case I have to put them back into the TIU 1 zone, select and re-start the lash-up members individually, then select and re-start the lash-up. Thank goodness for sidings to hold the rest of the train.

Yeah Matt that saves a few head aches for sure.  We do have a spare tiu #1 for adding tethered.

Matt,

The one Super TIU issue I do have is if an extended power loss disables the lash-up, in which case I have to put them back into the TIU 1 zone, select and re-start the lash-up members individually, then select and re-start the lash-up

I don't understand this at all. Aren't you using DCS 5.0 in Super TIU mode?

If you are, even if the lashup goes into the Inactive Engine List due to a power outage (or for any other reason), DCS 5.0 will find it no matter what TIU's tracks it's residing when power is restored. You should be able to just restore track power and start up the lashup.

This was a problem under DCS 4.20. however, it was corrected in DCS 4.30.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

Barry are you saying lash-ups  don't need the watch dog  with version 5.

Here's another one... As I mentioned I brought home a engine with speed control issues. (takes off as soon as the speed is dialed up) I  had tried a feature rest  at jacks with another remote and the engine lost the custom name. It also didn't fix the problem   I'm working on that , actually haven't even started.

However here with a different remote I deleted the engine and added it back again. The custom name was also there.   It seems  the custom name is still stored in the engine but the remote doing the feature reset  says something else??

Gregg,

are you saying lash-ups  don't need the watch dog  with version 5.

No, not at all. What I'm stating is that if there's an interruption in track power that leaves a lashup's member engines in the Inactive Engine List on tracks connected to a TIU with which the engines aren't associated, DCS 4.3 & DCS 5.0 can find them when track power is restored.

This was not the case in DCS releases prior to DCS 4.30.

Further, even if a lashup is on a toggled siding and misses the watchdog signal. it can still be started up and operated normally by doing the following (this has worked since DCS 4.0):

• Highlight the lashup in either the Active or Inactive Engine List
• Switch on the siding
• Immediately press the thumbwheel.

The lashup will remain dark and silent, and can now be started up and operated normally. This also works for individual engines, although it's typically unnecessary.

Gregg posted:

Barry are you saying lash-ups  don't need the watch dog  with version 5.

Here's another one... As I mentioned I brought home a engine with speed control issues. (takes off as soon as the speed is dialed up) I  had tried a feature rest  at jacks with another remote and the engine lost the custom name. It also didn't fix the problem   I'm working on that , actually haven't even started.

However here with a different remote I deleted the engine and added it back again. The custom name was also there.   It seems  the custom name is still stored in the engine but the remote doing the feature reset  says something else??

A bit of   an update. I did another feature reset here at home and the name disappeared.   I think the featured reset at jacks didn't really take even though the name disappeared. Could have been a low battery thing.

BTW thanks for the lash-up reply.