DCS HELP PLEASE

Is clickity clack turned on?? It only works at steady speed over a certain level.

 

Are you losing control in the same certain area of the layout? Is it when a certain action is requested? What do you mean exactly by lose control of all engines? Do silent ones actually start? Or just no response from the two running or any others that you try??

Did you run an engine around at about 10 scale MPH and check the signal levels all around the loops?

Travis,

1. when controlling 2 trains or more at the same time, we seem to lose control of all engines, but this is only temporary (remotes are on different channels). 

This will occur any time anyone uses the Mic on a remote to attempt to speak through an engine. All remotes will become inoperative whenever any remote's Mic button is depressed.

2. Engines going over 25 SMPH lose their sound after about 1 full minute, but come right back after changing speed (enough to get different RPM sound level) but once that is set, it goes back out after another minute, unless under 25, then sounds stay on fine.

As Joe mentioned above, turn off Clickity-Clack. Press Menu/Sound/Clickity-Clack and press the OFF soft key.

 

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Clickity clack is turned off on all locos, and the microphones are not used on any remote, we do not use that feature. Track signal is 9s and 10s all the way around, since power is injected.every 4 ft. Thanks guys, keep the suggestions coming! We went over the Manuel and other available documents with a fine tooth comb.

And we loose control randomly, never in the same spot, but always when both remotes are used. Most issues seem to dissapate when only one proto 2/3 is running.

You may have to turn the clickity clack off each time you power up a engine if the battery  is low. I had it return when I was sure I had it turned off.

 

You can find the ckickity clack in the sound menu and also under the more softkey with each engine.

 

Losing control of all engines may be related to having TMCC engines  in the same block..some TMCCers can destroy the dcs signal. Take'em off the track and see if it makes a difference.

 since power is injected.every 4 ft.

That can be a problem, rather than a good thing.

The two engines in question where proto 3, no batteries, and settings where changed and checked. Power is injected every 4 ft only because that is our module length. I do not see this being a problem, but I could be wrong, all drops are shared on a harness that runs to every module.

Actually, I suspect Barry will be along to tell you that IS a problem. 

 

Bus oriented wiring is problematic for DCS in many cases.  Our modular club is working on getting DCS running and we're running into the same issue, it's bus wired and I'm working my way around trying to adjust as much as possible for DCS, while obviously keeping the modules so we can travel with them.

A few things:

• Your sound loss problem is almost certainly due to Clickity-Clack being turned on. As Gregg stated, if batteries are low, you may be turning it off, however, the setting change won't "stick" once you power off the engine and then power it back on again.
• You need to describe your loss of control more exactly to get its cause nailed down. The Mic issue ail most certainly cause this, however, other things will, as well.
• If you haven't insulated each block at its center rail, you can have serious control problems regardless of what is the DCS signal strength, due to packet collisions.
• Some, but not all, TMCC or Legacy engines can cause a degradation of DCS signal strength and attendant loss of control of DCS engines, just by being on powered tracks.

You can try putting an 18 volt bulb across each TIU output channel being used to improve DCS signal strength, however, that isn't a substitute for insulating center rails to create true track blocks with only a single TIU connection in each block.

 

I  can suggest a goo book for you to purchase...

 

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Barry, as I do appreciate your help, I really wish you would stop trying to push your product. Our club has purchased it, it has been read, and as much as I wish I could say we followed it to a T, we did not. it is nearly impossible to setup a modular layout without bus wiring, or with block sections.

 

John, Thank you for all your help, and all you do on the forum. I have ready many an issue that you have mastered with ease. Thanks again everyone for your input.

 

I will keep playing around with it, the tmcc/legacy issue was not present at our last show, as there was no lionel trains on the track. if the bus wiring is an issue, then why does one train work flawlessly with 2 remotes, but when you drive 2 trains (on different loops) everything goes crazy.  

In terms of how we lose control, the system just becomes non-responsive, the trains continue to run at set speeds, and after a few seconds, control comes back, with or without sound. I will check the clickity clack again at our next show, but I am 100% positive, it was turned off. Again, thanks everyone for your help so far!

It's not impossible at all. Each modual can be an individual block and be home run wired for DCS. It's more work and more wire but certainly not impossible.

 

Travis,

I really wish you would stop trying to push your product.

Why? Is it causing you to be upset?

 

If it brothers you so much, just block, or ignore, my posts.

Travis,

(remotes are on different channels)

This is a meaningless statement as regards DCS. What are you actually trying to say?

 

Also, are these problems happening at shows where there are other DCS layouts operating?

By the way, we are using the Revision L TIU. 

Barry, The remotes where 10X more non-responsive when both where on the same channel, once one remote was changed, we had a bit more luck maintaining control. And while its a very good thought on the other dcs layouts, the most recent show we did was for a charity event, and no other layouts where present.

Travis,

when both where on the same channel,

Do you mean that they had the same DCS ID#?

The remote talks to tiu not each channel? you may have a better dcs signal on one channel over another giving better response . Giving a remote an ID number means almost nothing, We have 7 or 8 remotes with  4 tiu in super mode. Some are numbered some are not. can't tell the difference.

How many tiu do you have??

Barry, yes, the remotes where on the same channel, once the channel was changed on one remote, they both started working better. 

as for the Tiu, we only have 1, running as Tiu 3.

Our modular is running 3 loops of track, each track has its own output from the dcs, and all 3 act as fixed outputs. All 3 loops also share the same ground. We are also running legacy, which is working flawlessly. It just seems as if there is some setting in the TIU or on the remotes that we seem to be missing. If anyone has any ideas, please help. if more information is needed, please ask. I am 99% sure that this is the newest version TIU.

 

Have you tried a track signal test on each loop?

Is each loop separated from other loops with a center rail insulated pin.

I find it hard to  believe giving a remote it's own ID number makes that much difference but it certainly can't hurt.

Each engine must have the same ID number in each remote.

Are you saying everything is now working??

Dumb question, with one TIU, why are you running it as #3?  Why not the default of #1?

Other layouts in same location?

Just a thought, If both Remotes are sending commands to the TIU at the same time, and they are on the same frequency, would they not interfere with each other?

Have you tried checking if perhaps they were both being used at just the same moment when the problem happened?

I have only been to one event where multiple remotes were in use, but not a lot of actual commands were being sent at any given time due to the limited number of people running trains.

We use number 3 since most of our members run trains of their own, it just seemed like a better idea to go with 3. All 3 loops have great signal. And when the remotes are being used at the same time is usually when we lose control, but they are on different channels. There has been times when we set the remotes down, come back, and have no control.

If your member's home  tiu are  a different tiu number than 3  they would have to add tiu #3 to their remote and place  the home and club  tiu in super mode.

For what it's worth, we have 7 remotes and never noticed any remote conflicts.

I have no problem going between home and the club, both using TIU #1, so I'm not sure what the reasoning for using #3 is.  Perhaps someone can explain that one to me.

Having 2 tiu with the same number in the same location is a problem. There would have to be a second layout in the same location with in range of the each layouts remotes

 

Ex.  Engines (IDs) are associated with the tiu they've been added to. So if a engine has ID #7 on one layout and a different engine has ID #7 on another layout, each others remote will control both engines at once.( if you can even communicate with them).

If he engines are associated with  different tiu there's no conflict. Now how often are there 2 modular clubs are the same location? don't know.

We run on you 3 to avoid conflicts with o the clubs in joint layouts.  We made that decision several years ago.

Travis,

Barry, yes, the remotes where on the same channel, once the channel was changed on one remote, they both started working better. 

Let me be clear: one cannot assignation a remote to a channel.

What were you really changing?

Russell,

Just a thought, If both Remotes are sending commands to the TIU at the same time, and they are on the same frequency, would they not interfere with each other?

No, they would not.

Makes sense if there's another separate DCS layout running, I'll keep that in mind for our modular shows.

Travis,

 

if you have remotes with TIUs 1 and/or 2 in them, and only TIU is present,lock ups and errors can result.

Just to reiterate, we (Travis and I are club mates)  have been running DCS and TMMC and then Legacy on the same layout for several years. We have had issues in some train meets with TIU conflicts with other clubs, so we decided to always use TIU 3. We run one TIU, Revision L. We used to run DCS on only one of the three tracks, We upgraded to Revision L and then, with the help of this forum, expanded dcs to all three tracks. Each track runs on its own TIU channel. two channels powered from a Z4000, one from a Z1000. Each module is fed from a bus. We used to place insulators between each modules on one track (the formerly DCS track) and used the magic lights. After upgrading to Rev L we did away with the magic lights. When we did a setup onetime with no insulated pins, and saw no difference in operation, we stopped using the insulating pins.

 

When we had our last setup, we had fresh batteries in the remotes. We tested the track and got a signal strength of 10 all around, on all three tracks, except for one module, hastily completed. (I didn't get all the glue off the tracks in time for the show.) That module started with 10's and then dropped down to 4's along the 4 foot length of the module. 

 

Our major problem was that we would occasionally get out of RF range errors, and the engines would stop responding to the remotes. Speed could not be adjusted nor could horns be sounded until we pushed startup on the remote. Travis was the lead troubleshooter on this, and if he says something different then I, listen to him because he was paying closer attention.

Just to clarify, I said we would " get out of RF range errors, and the engines would stop responding to". This was poorly written. I don't know that these two things happened together. One thing we did not check was to see if the RF boards in the remotes were loose.

Thank you dick, That is what has been happening, along with the sound issues, which I will troubleshoot more next show. The out of RF range error we get seems to be a very intermittent issue, I will check the boards in the remotes at the next show as well. 

Barry, the setting I was changing in the remote, is under the remote menu, remote address. the default is address 0, I changed them so that they are all different. with 2 or more remotes on address 0, our problems where non-stop with communication.

Barry, another thing to note, since our club runs TIU 3, most of our members that bring their own remotes also run TIU 3 at home, its just a number we chose so that we do not interfere with other clubs running dcs.

If you're getting a great dcs signal on all 3 tracks I wouldn't change anything as far as the track wiring goes providing each loop (track) is separate (insulated)  from other loops.

 

If you suspect a loose transceiver board in a remote why not  tether it to the tiu and see how it behaves. Only  the tethered remote can now communicate with the tiu.

 

Do other club members  use their own remotes? If so how do they add their engines? 

Engines are associated with the tiu they've been add to. (super mode takes car of multiple tiu), yes I know you only have tiu #3 but I suspect the members may have different numbered  home tius

Where's the tiu located?  on top of the power cart would be better than underneath. We drill a hole in our tiu and let the antennae stick straight up through for better reception. Be careful, it is  very delicate when bending if you decide to go this route, probably not a good idea if you have to set up and take down at each show.