DCS PS2 Engines Behaving Badly

Product numbers?

First off, STOP RUNNING THE ONE WITH THE SOUND PROBLEM!  This sounds like the flaking speaker issue, if so you need to replace the speaker before it takes out the board.  It could be another issue, but I sure wouldn't run it until you replace the speaker.

The other one sounds like a typical board issue to me, but someone will have to diagnose what is going on.

As Matt says, the actual product numbers are really useful when you're asking for help on specific locomotives.

Sparticus-

Problem Engine #1 sounds like a speaker going (or gone) bad; many early Proto 2 (5 Volt) locomotives were equipped with a bad batch of speakers. Over time the metal coating begins to flake off resulting in garbled sounds. On diesels the speaker is usually in the fuel tank, but it could also be mounted to the frame near the rear motor; check to see if there is flaking metal or shiny metal shavings on the speaker magnet or nearby. If you find shavings or flaked metal do not use the locomotive until the speaker is replaced - the shavings can create shorts and possibly fry the Proto2 boards. MTH part #BF-0000033 is typically the replacement speaker, but any 2" diameter 16 ohm speaker with a power rating of at least 2 watts can be used.

Hope this helps!

-John

Ok, you got it! No more running it!

Ok, here are the product numbers:

Circus = 30-2239-1

NYC (a set with a non-motorized companion engine) = 30-2001-1

Thanks for your help.

I couldn't find your second set.

I did find this

30-2001-0 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)

is your engine is from 1998?

Well, maybe that's the issue; it certainly looks like 30-2001-0 link you sent. I will get the box out of the attic tomorrow and confirm. So it might not be PS-2 after all, which would explain a few things.... Standby. Thanks!

The box should tell you if it's a PS/2 locomotive.

if it's ps 1 it does not have DCS and can not be run from the remote except in conventional from the older remote and  IR remote control system.

50-1012 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)

I would like you to try and run it just from a z4000 transformer and power up to 10 volts then wait for sounds as board goes threw a self check if it starts up it's definitely PS 1 !

Alan

@Alan Mancus posted:

if it's ps 1 it does not have DCS and can not be run from the remote except in conventional from the older remote and  IR remote control system.

50-1012 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)

I would like you to try and run it just from a z4000 transformer and power up to 10 volts then wait for sounds as board goes threw a self check if it starts up it's definitely PS 1 !

Alan

Alan - Yep, self-check, and ready to roll at 10v. Box says "RK2001" and lists "upgradable to full digital sound". So does that mean it can be upgraded to PS2/PS3, and is that even a practical option, or skip it? Thanks for the help with this.

@AcelaNYP posted:

Sparticus-

Problem Engine #1 sounds like a speaker going (or gone) bad; many early Proto 2 (5 Volt) locomotives were equipped with a bad batch of speakers. Over time the metal coating begins to flake off resulting in garbled sounds. On diesels the speaker is usually in the fuel tank, but it could also be mounted to the frame near the rear motor; check to see if there is flaking metal or shiny metal shavings on the speaker magnet or nearby. If you find shavings or flaked metal do not use the locomotive until the speaker is replaced - the shavings can create shorts and possibly fry the Proto2 boards. MTH part #BF-0000033 is typically the replacement speaker, but any 2" diameter 16 ohm speaker with a power rating of at least 2 watts can be used.

Hope this helps!

-John

You guys nailed it. I have a flaking speaker. The speaker shares the fuel tank with the battery. I'd never noticed it before, until I went to unscrew the speaker and the screwdriver was filled with metal shavings. Hoping I didn't screw up the board...it's been doing this for a couple of months. Oops. So, the solution is to order a replacement speaker and see whether I did any long-term damage, huh? See photos here.

If the audio was working when you shut it down, you probably got it in time.  That is a very common issue for many of the early 5V PS/2 engines, and some of the earlier 3V engines.  The STAR speakers that MTH used had defective plating and would start to disintegrate after a few years.

@Sparticus posted:

Alan - Yep, self-check, and ready to roll at 10v. Box says "RK2001" and lists "upgradable to full digital sound". So does that mean it can be upgraded to PS2/PS3, and is that even a practical option, or skip it? Thanks for the help with this.

You're likely better off just buying the one that already has command installed pricewise.

Look on the end flap of the box for engine #2. If you see a QSI symbol, you have a conventional (non-command control) engine that cannot respond to DCS. That said, you can run it conventionally with the variable channel on your TIU. I highly recommend you get a copy of Barry's book, The DCS Companion. The book does a wonderful job explaining all aspects of DCS, including wiring, command operations, and conventional operations. The Bible for DCS!

Chris

LVHR

Spartacus - Also, on some - but not all - PS2 equipped steamers MTH often put a tiny oval-shaped 'PS2' sticker on the bottom of the tender.  Check for that on the engine in question before making a trip to the attic.  

Guys, Ok, so I replaced the speaker on the Circus 30-2239-1 PS-2 engine as you advised; it seemed to work fine the first time I ran it, but the second time, the volume was really low-- almost too low to hear. So I increased the volume POT on the underside-- had to increase it all the way up to get the sound almost up to its pre-replacement level. But then, two days later when I went to use it, the volume was back down where it was previously-- too low to hear, and now the volume POT and I can't turn it up any farther. Bad speaker? Thoughts? Everything else on the engine is working normally, just very low sound. Thanks for your help.

@Sparticus posted:

Guys, Ok, so I replaced the speaker on the Circus 30-2239-1 PS-2 engine as you advised; it seemed to work fine the first time I ran it, but the second time, the volume was really low-- almost too low to hear. So I increased the volume POT on the underside-- had to increase it all the way up to get the sound almost up to its pre-replacement level. But then, two days later when I went to use it, the volume was back down where it was previously-- too low to hear, and now the volume POT and I can't turn it up any farther. Bad speaker? Thoughts? Everything else on the engine is working normally, just very low sound. Thanks for your help.

Others check me on this but low volume can also be caused by a dead or aging battery right?

The circus train is 5V and not as susceptible to the battery issue as 3V board are.  Easy test is to unplug battery and see if volume goes up in conventional.  Obviously, it will not move without battery in conventional.  Try a conventional reset, or in DCS a feature reset or raise volume.

If battery and speaker good, and volume pot reads 0 ohms between gray and red wire, it may be a board starting to fail.  But while I have seen audios go bad (no volume) or board emit static volume.  I can't recall a PS-2 5V board with just a reduced volume that wasn't speaker related.  G