DCS Remote Commander won't work.

Remember, after you do the factory reset, you can't add it back into the DCS Commander or that will destroy the ability to use the DCS Remote Commander.  Do the factory reset, then kill the track power and remove the engine from the track.

John;

Thanks for your timely reply.

When I received your reply, I went immediately to the layout and tried what you recommended and it didn't work and I was pretty sure it was what I had already done -- several times.

When I did the Factory reset, I didn't add the engine back into the commander, BUT -- and this makes little sense to me!

After I did the Factory reset, I pulled the plug from the Z-1000 from the wall receptacle.

It never worked!!! (i.e. the remote wouldn't control the engine)

Then I got the idea to take your advice literally (even though I would have said it a little different than you did). I would have said "remove track power by disconnecting one of the banana plugs from the Lock-on."

Nevertheless, I took your advice literally and it WORKED!

I disconnected the red banana plug from the Lock-on and then I DID NOT remove the engine, but instead, I just hooked up the remote receiver and powered it from the Z-1000 and then the remote worked!

As I've said, it makes little sense to me, but obviously, the power sequencing for this business is quite important.

So far, I have only tried the GG-1 (addr. 1) -- I'll try the others later.

But you've given me confidence it will work.

Thanks so much for your help, John

Ray

You have the ability to turn track power off on the Commander, besides pulling plug.  But that is what I do.  The real key is waiting a few minutes before trying it on the Remote CDR.  Also when doing the reset you want volume on full.   G

Good point about the volume, another thing that never made any sense to me, but seems to help at times.

Thanks G.

I now realize the E-Stop button will disconnect power out from the Cdr.

I have been experimenting with the Cdr and the Remote Cdr with respect to using each to control an engine.

I have found that you were correct in saying it makes a difference how long you wait before trying to go from Cdr control to Rem control via the engine reset.

The first time I posted about my troubles, I think I was going to the Rem too quickly after having reset the engine via the Cdr. I discovered the previous nonsense I posted about how one disconnects power from the track was just that -- 'nonsense'!

I am now able to go back and forth between controlling an engine from the Cdr and Rem (via the reset) by just taking the necessary time between powering up the Z-1000 or the Remote receiver.

Here is something that really bugs me:

Does anyone know EXACTLY what happens when you "add" an engine to the DCS Commander?

Apparently, (I can't find it documented anywhere) the adding of an engine to the Cdr will write something into whatever memory the engine has and it retains that info.

I knew the "add" operation of the Cdr would write info into the Cdr's memory -- that seems obvious!

BUT, I don't thinks it's so obvious the "add" operation would write something into the engine's memory but that is the only explanation I can come up with for why, after adding an engine to the Cdr, the Remote can no longer recognize and control the engine!

I don't think the Cdr's "add" operation changes the engines ID from the factory assigned value, BUT, it certainly changes something related to the ID in the engine which I guess is why the Remote can't recognize and control the engine after it has been added to the Cdr.

People warn about changing the engine ID from it's factory value (I suppose via the Cdr) if you are going to use it with the Remote Cdr at some point, BUT, I think what should be said is DON'T use the engine with the Cdr under DCS, IF you then intend to use the Remote Cdr to later control it!

I suppose if we agree that the mere "adding" of an engine to the Cdr changes it's factory default ID, THEN I can see why we say "Don't change the engine id from the factory setting if you wish to use it via the Remote Cdr".

This whole business is NOT VERY WELL EXPLAINED anywhere I know of!

Am I the only one bothered by the lack of precision in terminology and technical explanation?

I purchased Barry's DCS Companion (3rd Ed.) hoping to get detailed technical info but was disappointed.

I also have the edition copyrighted 2009 "THE DCS O GAUGE COMPANION" and have read it extensively only to discover the same errors/omissions exist in the equivalent material published in the 3rd edition.

However, it's all we have and certainly better than not having any info. 

Sorry G -- I didn't mean to "unload" on anyone and I hope Barry and others don't take offense to my remarks about the DCS companion.

Thanks again for your help -- I only wish I can eventually be of help to others as well.

Ray

When you add an engine, it does indeed save the engine # in the engine memory.  When you take the engine to a new location and add it to a remote, it will use the same number if it's free in that remote, otherwise it will actually write the new engine number into the engine and remote.  Then, when you go back to the original location and remote, you'll have to either change the engine # in your remote or delete and re-add the engine.

Confusing?  You bet!

Apparently, (I can't find it documented anywhere) the adding of an engine to the Cdr will write something into whatever memory the engine has and it retains that info.

John is correct. Read The DCS Companion 3rd Edition. for details.

don't think the Cdr's "add" operation changes the engines ID from the factory assigned value, BUT, it certainly changes something related to the ID in the engine which I guess is why the Remote can't recognize and control the engine after it has been added to the Cdr.

It absolutely does. Further the DCS Remote Commander can only access DCS engines that have a Factory-set DCS ID#. Again, Read The DCS Companion 3rd Edition. for details.

None of this is confusing at all, once you understand how DCS Works!

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition", available for purchase  from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book.

John;

Thanks for the info, but I'm not sure what your saying makes sense in light of my experience.

I have a simple oval of track with 1 lock-on and 1 power supply (Z-1000) and 1 engine on the track.

I have the DCS Commander Cdr) and the DCS Remote Commander (Rem) in the configuration.

Here is what I experience:

Scenario 1:

    Z-1000 powers Cdr, Cdr powers track, factory reset engine, unplug Z-1000

    Z-1000 powers Rem Receiver, Rem Receiver powers track, Rem Handheld controls engine

Scenario 2: I now abandon Rem in favor of Cdr as follows;

    Z-1000 powers Cdr, Cdr powers track, Cdr does "add" engine, Cdr controls engine

    At this point, I attempt to return to the use of the Rem.

    If I try using the Rem (WITHOUT DOING A FACTORY RESET VIA THE CDR), the Rem won't work!

There has been no moving of the engine to a different track, no changing of the engine ID (it still shows as #4 when added to Cdr).

I don't know what "add it to a remote" means -- I'm not aware of any concept of "adding" an engine to a remote, only "adding" an engine to the DCS Commander.

The only explanation I can come up with is that there is some indicator in the engine's memory that shows the engine has undergone a "factory reset operation" and it is that alone which prevents an engine which has been "added" to a DCS Commander from subsequently being controlled by the Remote Commander, EVEN THOUGH THE ID ITSELF "HAS NOT CHANGED"!

In other words, when the Cdr "adds" the engine, it causes a change in this "factory reset" indicator and it is this change that cause the situation -- despite the ID having not changed!

I wonder if Barry knows or if he has access to someone who knows EXACTLY what happens as a result of the "add" operation, with respect to changes in the engine's memory?

Ray

When you do a factory reset, there is no dcs address for your remote used with the TIU. Once you add the engine into your remote, you have one. The engine will come up as #4 again if you have 1,2, & 3 taken all ready with other engines. If you delete the first one, your engine would come back up as #1 after a factory reset is done properly.

Use the terms "remote" and "DCS Commander" interchangeably in my descriptions.  Most of us use the full DCS system with the TIU and remote, but the process of adding an engine does the same thing for the DCS Commander, and the engine ID is indeed written into the locomotive memory.

Barry;

Thanks for your reply.

On page 204 of the 3rd. edition of your book, you write;

"All DCS engines come from the factory with a DCS ID# that is correct for use with the DCS Remote
Commander."

And in Appendix E, you write;

"DCS engines come from the factory with
an internal ID# of 1 and a DCS Factory Reset changes the engine's ID# back to 1"

I actually read your edition copyrighted 2009 first and then recently bought the 3rd. edition and am in the process of reading it as well.

Having cogitated on this matter for a few minutes, I understand what is happening.

Thanks for the book and your reply.

Ray

No offense to Barry, but that description is at least a bit confusing.  You can add a DCS engine to the DCS Commander (or TIU) as engine #1, and then it will NOT be recognized by the DCS Remote Commander.  The only way to get back to operate with the DCS Remote Commander is to do a factory reset and then NOT add it to a full DCS system.

Whatever the factory reset does internally, it's not the same as having it assigned as engine #1 in a DCS system.  There's obviously something subtle that's different after a factory reset in the engine.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Use the terms "remote" and "DCS Commander" interchangeably in my descriptions.  Most of us use the full DCS system with the TIU and remote, but the process of adding an engine does the same thing for the DCS Commander, and the engine ID is indeed written into the locomotive memory.

John;

When I wrote "I don't know what "add it to a remote" means -- I'm not aware of any concept of "adding" an engine to a remote, only "adding" an engine to the DCS Commander.", I was talking about the DCS Remote Commander -- not the DCS Remote!

I believe you'll agree the concept of "add it to a remote" does not apply to the Remote Commander?

After Barry's reply and my re-reading of his book, I understand what is happening.

As always, thanks for your helpful replies.

Ray

gunrunnerjohn posted:

No offense to Barry, but that description is at least a bit confusing.  You can add a DCS engine to the DCS Commander (or TIU) as engine #1, and then it will NOT be recognized by the DCS Remote Commander.  The only way to get back to operate with the DCS Remote Commander is to do a factory reset and then NOT add it to a full DCS system.

Whatever the factory reset does internally, it's not the same as having it assigned as engine #1 in a DCS system.  There's obviously something subtle that's different after a factory reset in the engine.

John;

Remember Barry's admonition to me to read his book!

If we add an engine and it shows as #1, it is actually #2 in the engine's memory.

That is why the Remote Commander won't control it!

Actually, what really happens is the engine 'sees' the command from the Remote Commander, BUT it looks at it's address and says "I'm number 2 and this command I'm seeing is addressed to number 1, so I'll just ignore it".

Remember the DCS Remote Commander can ONLY send out commands addressed to engine # 1!

Perhaps you noticed my signature is "RTFM"! Do you know what it means?

Ray

Joe Allen posted:

When you do a factory reset, there is no dcs address for your remote. Once you add the engine into your remote, you have one. The engine will come up as #4 again if you have 1,2, & 3 taken all ready with other engines. If you delete the first one, your engine would come back up as #1 after a factory reset is done properly.

Joe;

When you used the term "remote" in your post quoted above, did you mean the Remote Handheld used with the TIU or did you mean the Remote Handheld used with the DCS Remote Commander?

Ray

Ray,

I think you've got it!

From The DCS Companion 3rd Edition, page 229:

Appendix E: The Truth About DCS Engine ID Numbers

First, it's necessary to dispel a myth: there is no engine ID# of 0. DCS engines come from the factory with an internal ID# of 1 and a DCS Factory Reset changes the engine's ID# back to 1. The following explanation regarding the way in which DCS manipulates the engine ID# is provided for those readers who are interested in how DCS works, as might be said, "under the hood". The DCS engine numbering scheme works in the following way.

DCS always places an ID# in a DCS engine that is one greater than the ID# that it displays for the engine in the DCS Remote, i.e., if one adds a DCS engine to a DCS Remote and the engine adds as ID# 11, the number written into the DCS engine's memory is actually 12. This causes DCS ID#s that display in the remote from 1-99 to actually be resident in DCS engines as 2-100. That's also why DCS ID# 99 is a special case - it's actually in the engine as 100, the only 3-digit internal DCS engine ID# number. This causes unique issues when using engines with DCS ID# 99.

(... and the Appendix continues)

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition", available for purchase  from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book.

RayL posted:

Joe Allen posted:

When you do a factory reset, there is no dcs address for your remote. Once you add the engine into your remote, you have one. The engine will come up as #4 again if you have 1,2, & 3 taken all ready with other engines. If you delete the first one, your engine would come back up as #1 after a factory reset is done properly.

Joe;

When you used the term "remote" in your post quoted above, did you mean the Remote Handheld used with the TIU or did you mean the Remote Handheld used with the DCS Remote Commander?

Ray

Remote Handheld used with the TIU.

I believe you understand it now that Barry explained it to you.

Joe;

I think you may have been confused as to what we were discussing.

We were talking about the DCS Remote Commander (MTH 50-1033) (NO TIU involved!)

We were NOT discussing the DCS Remote (MTH 50-1002) (IT DOES involve a TIU!)

You can't add an engine into the DCS Remote Commander!

Ray

I understand that you can't run an engine that has been added to the TIU remote  with the DCS Remote Commander. But the engine has to be factory reset with the TIU remote properly. You must also wait until the engine shuts all the way down after track power is removed, before starting back up to use the DCS Remote Commander.

Probably also need a good battery to have the factory reset stick. 

Joe;

Not to belabor the point, but I have had some difficulty following what you were telling me because you always mentioned a TIU. In the discussions I have been having about the problem of engines being recognized and responding, there are NO TIU's involved. I don't use a TIU to do a factory reset of the engine and I don't own any TIU's. So, you can probably see how I was unable to follow what you were telling me because I have no TIUs.

Having said that, it appears you probably do have a TIU or more and do use them to do the factory reset of an engine.

I guess when you talk about adding an engine to the TIU remote, that is equivalent to me adding an engine to the DCS Commander. You use the TIU remote to do BOTH the "add" and to subsequently control the engine, whereas I use the DCS Commander to do the "add" and subsequently use the DCS Remote Commander to control the engine.

Does that sound correct to you?

Ray

Gregg posted:

Probably also need a good battery to have the factory reset stick. 

Gregg;

I was wondering to what extent the battery played a part in the quality of the reset.

It may not matter much if the battery is not used to provide non-volatility to the engine's memory.

It would depend upon the memory technology used in the engines.

I was under the impression the batteries in the engines are there to provide uninterrupted power when the track power is removed momentarily during running on the tracks, due to things such as dirty tracks or small gaps in continuity and other things which could interrupt the flow from the tracks.

What has been your experience?

Ray

RayL posted:

Joe,

I guess when you talk about adding an engine to the TIU remote, that is equivalent to me adding an engine to the DCS Commander. You use the TIU remote to do BOTH the "add" and to subsequently control the engine, whereas I use the DCS Commander to do the "add" and subsequently use the DCS Remote Commander to control the engine.

Does that sound correct to you?

Ray

 

Yes, I don't have a DCS Commander unit. But they work basically the same I think.

If the battery is low, the PS2 board will not be powered long enough for the reset to take as Gregg was referring to. It's possible that the battery got charged up enough when you had your engine on the powered track to get charged up enough for the reset to work.

We test the battery by removing track power and see if the sounds continue to play for at least 6 to 7 seconds. Don't shut down the engine with DCS for this test.

Ray,

I was under the impression the batteries in the engines are there to provide uninterrupted power when the track power is removed momentarily during running on the tracks, due to things such as dirty tracks or small gaps in continuity and other things which could interrupt the flow from the tracks.

The battery in a PS2 engine (or the Supercapacitor in a PS3 engine) serves several purposes.

Often, these batteries are referred to as 9 volt or 3 volt batteries. Regardless of the voltage of the battery, there are several things that the battery in a PS2 engine does that are very important:

• The battery allows a PS2 engine to continue making sounds even if power is momentarily interrupted when the engine crosses switch tracks or loses power momentarily for other reasons
• The battery keeps a PS2 board operating even if power is momentarily interrupted so that the PS2 engine remains in DCS mode and continues to operate effectively
• The battery is used to save settings in the PS2 engine's memory after power to the engine is turned off. One critical setting that is saved in this manner is the engine's DCS ID# after it is changed for any reason
• In conventional mode, the battery is required to change a PS2 engine's direction. If the battery is too weak, a PS2 engine operating in conventional mode will not be able to get out of neutral.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition", available for purchase  from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book.

Barry;

Thanks for the info. I guess the engine memory is the volatile kind (requires a battery for maintaining its contents). I thought it might be the kind that doesn't require a battery like flash memory for instance.

I guess I need to perform a test to see if the battery is OK.

If I need to replace it, I hear there is something they call a "BCR-2" (PS2 3v ckt. brd.).

The guy who developed it lives only a few miles from me so I may call him or go there to discuss the issue.

How long should I expect the sounds to play from the engine after disconnecting track power (assuming a fully charged battery (8.4 v, I think)?

Thanks again;

Ray 

Joe Allen posted:

RayL posted:

Joe,

I guess when you talk about adding an engine to the TIU remote, that is equivalent to me adding an engine to the DCS Commander. You use the TIU remote to do BOTH the "add" and to subsequently control the engine, whereas I use the DCS Commander to do the "add" and subsequently use the DCS Remote Commander to control the engine.

Does that sound correct to you?

Ray

 

Yes, I don't have a DCS Commander unit. But they work basically the same I think.

If the battery is low, the PS2 board will not be powered long enough for the reset to take as Gregg was referring to. It's possible that the battery got charged up enough when you had your engine on the powered track to get charged up enough for the reset to work.

We test the battery by removing track power and see if the sounds continue to play for at least 6 to 7 seconds. Don't shut down the engine with DCS for this test.

Joe;

Thanks for the info -- I'll try the track power removal test and note the "time to silence".

Ray

Joe;

I did the "remove track power test" and it took anywhere from 6 to 11 seconds depending on which engine I used.

The GG-1 took 6s, the GP-9 took 9 or 10s, the 2-8-0 steamer took 11s.

I think I better get one or three of the BCR-2s to replace the batteries.

Ray

Ray,

I guess the engine memory is the volatile kind (requires a battery for maintaining its contents).

No, that's incorrect.

The battery is used as a power source to write temporary changes to the engine's characteristics into permanent memory after track power is turned off. Thats how the process works.

If you have my book, it's all in there.

Thanks Barry. I read the explanation in the book!

I remember reading it before, but I can only retain so much on a first reading.

I'll be continuing my reading of the book.

Ray

RayL,

    Now that Barry and Guns have given you the correct way to use your Commander, IMO the best thing you can do is upgrade to the full DCS and Legacy Combo and run with them. PCRR/Dave