DCS Remote Thumbwheel Lube

I'm sure it's not a pot, though I haven't taken one apart yet.  A pot would not have continuous 360 degree travel.  This is either an optical or hall effect sensor that senses the wheel rotation.

When spraying, be careful because some solvents will dissolve or distort polastic.

It is a 360 degree rotary encoder with 20 degree steps so 18 steps.  So the cleaner could work.  Interesting.  G

GGG 

       I am interested in how that encoder works. I used the tuner cleaner because I had nothing to lose. I now wonder what it did to fix the problem? Maybe a small spec of dirt. If I knew it was an encoder and not a pot, I wouldn't of used it. But it seemed to work out okay.

       That cleaner will make any noisy audio pot never act up again.

I do believe it is mechanical in nature.  G

Hard to believe it's mechanical.  I'd suspect a hall effect sensor or optical.  I don't feel like taking a remote apart to find out...

Well your wrong;-).  I took a bad one apart.  It is a disk with contact pads and contact fingers that engage the pads.  With the 18 segments as it rotates it makes and breaks contact.  Believe yellow is power in and the other 2 wires are connected to the 2 fingers.

There is a ball bearing to act as the index.

So the contact cleaner can very well help a poor performing thumb wheel.  The other fault is the plastic frame cracking which makes pressing the thumb wheel not work well.  G

Thank you GGG for the info.

Using the contact cleaner on the thumbwheel now makes sense. Also the tuner cleaner is completely inert.

My thumbwheel was lower on 1 side than the other from the day I got it. One day it  started working erratically and pressing it no longer did anything. Following the instructions in Barry's book, I took it apart for examination. One small piece holding it in place was broken. Called MTH & ordered new one. While waiting for parts, got to looking at the mounting of the thumbwheel decided to try shimming it up on the weak side where the piece was broken. It now works perfectly. New part went into the parts bin when it arrived, where it still resides.

We recently moved and trains are still packed, can't get to the remote (hoping to get to unpacking them soon!). I don't remember exactly how I fixed it or I would provide more detail. FWIW, I think I can get to the new thumbwheel for examination of that.

That explains the contract cleaner working, and it also explains why the control is not nearly as precise as the Legacy big red knob.  Maybe I'll try cleaning one of mine and see if it works better.

Here are some pictures of the thumbwheel. It looks like the small circuit board with the wires attached would come out and more detail could be shown. I tried to remove it and it was awfully tight in there. Not wanting to ruin my new thumbwheel, I gave up...

Cost was about $15-16 I think, shipping also but that wasn't too bas as I recall?

I tried sourcing that encoder via aftermarket and could never find it except from MTH.

http://www.sansei-e.co.jp/html...uct_english.html#EC4

Wouldn't surprise me if it is specifically made for remote with custom size/post.

It works, guys. I just opened up my remote and sprayed into the thumbwheel mechanism. Cleaned it up and reassembled. It spools up the voltage MUCH better than it had been. 

Real nervous about opening that remote, though.

Roger

Ok, I found this posting and read through all the replies and tried the cleaner, but no luck.  I ordered a new thumbwheel form MTH P/N BG5000000 and replaced wires as per the original Red, Yellow & Green order and have photos to prove it to myself before and after. Everything works great with one exception, or maybe it is my CRS memory. Now the thumbwheel must be turned towards the bottom of the control to increase the speed and turned towards the top to decrease the speed. The scrolling in the menus seems backwards too? 

This is a photo of the old Thumbwheel, looks like they changed the locations of the wires compared to rtr12's photo above? So I am guessing I have to reverse some wires??? Maybe I need to add hinges and a latch to the case.

My photo above is of the Old Thumbwheel, looks like they changed the locations of the wires compared to rtr12's photo also above? So I am guessing I will have to reverse some wires??? Maybe I should add hinges and a latch to the case while I’m at it. What do you think?

I think this was mentioned before, apparently you have to swap two wires.

See this thread: https://ogrforum.com/t...48#23815137728520348

My photos were of a thumbwheel I got from MTH last spring/summer. Mine had a broken plastic piece, the reason for replacement. I ended up shimming it up with cardboard while I had it apart to see what was wrong, before I ordered the new thumbwheel. Shims have been working so well I haven't replaced it yet.

If it wasn't so hard to get apart, I would look and see if my old thumbwheel wiring matches the new one. My DCS is fairly new, I think I got it in summer 2012. It's a rev L TIU and was v4.20 (latest at the time) when I got. It was purchased new from an MTH dealer, who had to order it from MTH at the time I ordered it.

When I do replace my thumbwheel I will definitely be checking the wires closely after reading your post here.

Yep, I missed that one, thanks

gunrunnerjohn

Hi All,

Ok I am having the same issue with my remotes thumbwheel. How is the set way to open the remote to do the lubrication? Besides the mentioned above radio shack lug, is there anything else that i can use? Of course this is king on the basis that the thumbwheel does not have to be replaced. If i scroll the wheel slowly, the SMPH numbers do not seem to jump up and down.

Barry's book explains opening the remote pretty well, if you have it. That's how I finally got mine open. Don't think I could describe the operation accurately without quoting the book. Wasn't easy, just be very careful.

Just serviced my wheel with Wurth contact oil which is formulated to be left on. My research on Deoxit says clean it off after application hence the use of the Wurth oil which i sprayed in and around the thumb wheel. It now has smoother action than a brand new spare remote i just bought.

Trackahead, reading your post, is the speed going the wrong way, or is it jumping up and down as you rotate the thumbwheel?  If the latter, the recent software upgrade is supposed to improve this.

Where did you find anything about Deoxit that says clean it off?  That's news to me, and I've been using it for some time with no issues.

That is pricey stuff!  What does it do that other contact cleaners, such as CRC, doesn't?

Read the description, it's a different composition that actually enhances the conductivity of the contacts.  It's quite different than CRC or tuner cleaner.

FWIW, I use all of the above, and the difference is obvious.

got my info from vintage stereo forums.

We recommend not spraying directly on any surface that you have ANY questions

about. Instead spray a lint-free swab or cloth with the product and treat the surface in that manner.

As far as whether the products are safe on plastic(s), this is what you should know:

The D5S (DeoxIT® & G5S (DeoxIT® GOLD) series has petroleum naphtha as its carrier solvent and on rare occasions, because it contains solvent, there MAY be an adverse reaction with vintage or inferior plastics.

Rgr,

Example: If the engine is join 50 SMPH and when decreasing the speed the numbers seism to jump up and down however; if i slowly move the scroll wheel backwards, the numbers do not seems to jump.

That's a known software problem, not a thumbwheel contact issue.  I am told that the new software 4.30 lessens this, but haven't run my layout enough since upgrading to ascertain if that's so.  I'll let other chime in on that issue.  Until you upgrade, I'd hold off on entering the remote

The thumbwheel scrolling bug only manifests itself in Super TIU mode, not in Normal TIU mode.

It is much less severe in DCS 4.30.

Barry, suppose I'm not in Super-TIU mode and it jumps all over, is that simply the thumbwheel contacts need cleaning or replacement?  When I'm trying to roll it up fairly quickly, it's all over the place.  If I very slowly click it up, it normally goes in the right direction.

I picked up a couple of new thumbwheels from MTH parts, figured I'd need them sooner or later.

OK so I am assuming (whoops), that since I am not in super mode that I actually have a scroll wheel issue? I guess gunrunner john is saying the same thing.

I'll probably pop one of these open and see if doing a contact cleaning helps.

What is inside a thumbwheel that does the electronic work?  A pot? a series of contacts?  etc?

I was surprised to find out that it's a set of contacts, not an optical or magnetic encoder.  I suspect the latter would have been much more reliable, they sure work better than the thumbwheel in computer mice and other applications.

You mean it appears that it sends pulses as it is rotated?  If so, how does the system know which way it's being rotated?  I've seen systems like this before, but never studied how they work.

It's a rotary encoder, they come in solid state and actual physical contact models.  This one would be classified as a mechanical encoder.

Mechanical absolute encoders

A metal disc containing a set of concentric rings of openings is fixed to an insulating disc, which is rigidly fixed to the shaft. A row of sliding contacts is fixed to a stationary object so that each contact wipes against the metal disc at a different distance from the shaft. As the disc rotates with the shaft, some of the contacts touch metal, while others fall in the gaps where the metal has been cut out. The metal sheet is connected to a source of electric current, and each contact is connected to a separate electrical sensor. The metal pattern is designed so that each possible position of the axle creates a unique binary code in which some of the contacts are connected to the current source (i.e. switched on) and others are not (i.e. switched off).

Because brush-type contacts are susceptible to wear, encoders using contacts are not common; they can be found in low-speed applications such as manual volume or tuning controls in a radio receiver.

Here's a whole page on encoders, Rotary Encoders they come in many flavors

John,

suppose I'm not in Super-TIU mode and it jumps all over, is that simply the thumbwheel contacts need cleaning or replacement

I've never heard of the software bug other than while in Super TIU mode.

It is mechanical.  It certainly can be an issue if you move it to fast you make new contact quicker than the break in contact is registered.  Not sure of the detailed circuitry inside the remote.  G