Definitive List of MTH and Lionel for conversion

Try the O Scale Freight Car Guide.

Bob

The freight car guide is a very good one. Generally, MTH is pretty easy to tell, if it's Premier (purple box) it's scale and product numbers start with 20-. If it's Railking (yellow box) it is less than scale and product numbers start with 30-. The exception is in Railking engines, they have a Railking Scale line that is scale and they are labeled as such in the catalogs.

Lionel is not so easy to tell, at least I haven't figured out a way unless you look it up In the catalogs. Lionel uses traditional to indicate less than scale and O Scale or Standard O to indicate scale size. I have no idea how to tell from the part numbers and I can't always tell by looking at the product either, depends on the type of car it is. One clue is price, the scale products are usually always more than the traditional products.

Well...I'm not a big Lionel guy. I use Grzyboski's store site to help sort out Lionel's cars. They have a link for "scale" cars.

https://www.grzyboskitrains.co...ale-sized-standard-o

and

https://www.grzyboskitrains.co...ale-sized-o-cabooses

Try the O Scale Freight Car Guide.

Bob

Bob, that was awesome.  One of the reasons that I started doing the O Scale Freight Car Guide series was to be able to just post a link instead of retyping a lot of the same info in response to individual questions.  Now I don't even have to post a link!

I'm glad you have found the OSFCG to be a useful resource.  Thanks for posting the link so others can find it.

Lionel is not so easy to tell, at least I haven't figured out a way unless you look it up In the catalogs. Lionel uses traditional to indicate less than scale and O Scale or Standard O to indicate scale size. I have no idea how to tell from the part numbers and I can't always tell by looking at the product either, depends on the type of car it is.

Lionel product numbers are much harder to decode than the MTH system with 20-9XXXX for scale freight cars.  However, Lionel has a very good search function on their web site. 

When looking for a scale model do a product search and select advanced search options.  On the advanced search pop up go to gauge and select Standard O.  Under category you can select all freight cars or individual types of freight cars (Boxcars, Hoppers, Gondolas, etc.) or locomotives or types of locomotives (Steam, Diesel, Electric).  You can also combine those choices with a road name search.  

The Lionel on line data base begins about 2000 or 2001.  That is also about the time that Lionel introduced many newly tooled O scale freight cars like the PS-1 boxcar, PS-2 covered hoppers and many others.

MTH has a good search function too.  Select Premier for the 1/48 scale product line.  Searching by road name can get funky due to multiple spellings or misspellings in their data base.

Atlas does not have a search function.  You can use google to try and search their web site but you have to really want to find something or here and someone may be able to point you in the right direction.

That's good information about the Lionel search, I had never tried using it. Will have to give it a try. I don't have a lot of Lionel stuff as they don't make much in my chosen road name. MTH however does make a lot of stuff in my road name (too much sometimes, I can't afford it all) and I have used their advanced search many times. You are right about all the different spellings of the road names, they really should clean that up and make it more useable. Maybe with the new website, we can only hope?  

To throw in more confusion, some Rail King items are scale models of smaller prototypes. Case in point the "Overton" 1800's era passenger cars and the Aerotrain. The trick is that you need to have good data to determine which is which, plus you need to wear a blindfold because of some of the fantasy decorations.

Start there in all things.

Neither Lionel or MTH are totally committed to 1/4 " scale models,there market has always been 3 rail,in more recent years they have brought out a number of models that are reasonably close scale size wise to some that may be right on, all Premier cars do not scale out correctly some are noticeably off [length,width or height] not enough in most cases to bother the buyers, road names are chosen for popularity first and are not always right for that particular car . I am a long term O scale 2 railer and for my money Atlas Master line seems to consistently produce accurate cars and road names.JMO

There is so much stuff out there on the O scale (2R) secondary market that I don't really see the need to convert 3 rail items.

Simon

RK Cabooses are scale with less features.

Be on the lookout in the coming months for the Lionel PRR GLa hopper.  The pre-production drawings look good and it will be pre drilled for mounting Kadee couplers.  GLa's were also used in large numbers by Berwind-White.  I hope it is of the quality of their PS1 box car, and PFE R40-23 reefer.  The Lionel GLa supposedly is sharing some tooling with their new USRA twin hopper.  I'm in a wait and see mode on the GLa as there are significant dimensional and detail differences between the 2 prototypes.  We already have a decent USRA twin from AtlasO/Intermountain.

Ed Rappe

Yes. 

No question a number of cars from MTH and Lionel are suitable for conversion to 2 rail and are well worth the effort if that is the only option. It all comes down to how comfortable you are with the model, I am not really talking super detailed here but basic dimensional and road name accuracy. Just saying.

The MTH premier auto racks are definitely not scale.  They are several inches too short.

You can't make a blanket statement about any manufacturer.  If you are interested in a particular car, you will have to measure it yourself or ask somebody who has measured it.

The MTH premier auto racks are definitely not scale.  They are several inches too short.

As Martin pointed out, the MTH three level auto rack is short of scale length.  It was introduced back in 1999.  At that time there was a limited market for 89 foot long cars, as Atlas proved with the modest success of their flat car.  Since then there have been many three rail layouts constructed with 36" and larger curves and many scale passenger cars running on them.  Because of the enlarged 3 rail market for big cars and crossover appeal to 2 rail and 3 rail scale operators Lionel has had a big hit with their full scale auto rack.

No question a number of cars from MTH and Lionel are suitable for conversion to 2 rail and are well worth the effort if that is the only option. It all comes down to how comfortable you are with the model, I am not really talking super detailed here but basic dimensional and road name accuracy.

Hibar

Other than the discussed MTH autorack are there any other cars in the Lionel Standard O or MTH Premier lines that you would suggest have significant dimensional issues?

Road name accuracy is something each of us must be aware of for our home roads and decide what is close enough for us.  Atlas, Lionel and MTH all make good use of the Morning Sun Color Guides and Railway Prototype Cyclopedias for paint schemes and car numbers.  But all of them will apply a prototypical paint scheme to the model in their respective product line that they feel is close.  That frequently means prototypical paint schemes on models with incorrect ends and roofs.

As a Hill Lines fan and especially a Great Northern fan, Atlas can be frustrating or at least amusing.  Virtually all of the Great Northern boxcars done by Atlas have the wrong ends or roofs or both for the cars they purport to model.  Some have incorrect sides too, and I don't mean just side sill tabs.  Several even combine incorrect roofs and ends with incorrect dimensions for width and height.

The only MTH cars I own are the 50' Hycubes[hard to find today and pricey] these are really well done with the exception of being 1/4" off in height 1 scale foot noticeable next to Atlas Berwick  cars and the standard modern 50' boxcar and this is on 36" scale wheelsets and body sitting at correct height over trucks,the Railbox scheme is not correct for this car its actually a waffle and post construction car but I can go with that as its a great modern paint scheme the other cars are accurate paint schemes NS,CN TR and York RR. 

The car appears slightly narrower than the Atlas and Weaver standard modern boxcars 10' is pretty much the norm , just my observations,I am not a collector strickly a modeler with limited space and too many cars already

Wow guys, there are plenty of cars from Lionel and MTH that are worthy of consideration for 2 rail conversion. Just a couple that come to mind that I've seen include the Lionel B&O I-12 wagon-top cabooses and the MTH Fishbelly hoppers. Are they exact? No. But they are pretty good for their price. 

The car appears slightly narrower than the Atlas and Weaver standard modern boxcars 10' is pretty much the norm , just my observations

Have you taken any measurements and compared them to prototype dimensions or are you just eyeballing it?

there are plenty of cars from Lionel and MTH that are worthy of consideration for 2 rail conversion. Just a couple that come to mind that I've seen include the Lionel B&O I-12 wagon-top cabooses and the MTH Fishbelly hoppers. Are they exact? No. But they are pretty good for their price.

Pretty good?  How about as good or better than many brass models at 2 or 3 times the price.

I'd add the Lionel CA-3/4 and MTH CA-1 UP cabooses to the list of O scale gems.

https://ogrforum.com/t...e-up-cupola-cabooses

The MTH 2-bay ACF's aren't bad and have see-through roof walks (albeit on the thick side). K-Line did some in aluminum that were pretty nice if you can find them. The other alternative is slicing a Weaver 4-bay ACF like Ed Reutling was doing years ago.

The Lionel 86-foot excess height box car is a winner and it is my understanding that more are going to be released for other roads, plus the 8-door version. They have Kadee pads (the floor should have additional interior bracing, though) and a wide-mouthed draft box for use with #746 long-shank Kadee couplers. If you have broad curves, an alternative coupler setup would be the Weaver shock-control coupler.

MTH is the only one I know of who mass-produced a 50-foot airslide in O scale. I have a couple and they're pretty nice, and I'll probably convert them at some point.

Now there's a concept,

"There is so much stuff out there on the O scale (2R) secondary market that I don't really see the need to convert 3 rail items."

    There's actually lots of 3 rail scale size cars that are not made in 2 rail. Much of the 2 rail secondary market is old era  cars not suitable for more modern era modeling.  

     As for scale size or not one should measure the cars to make sure, as MTH makes some scale size railking cars and some premier cars that are too short. Lionel is a mixed bag of some very nice scale stuff and lots of small older style toy trains..DaveB 

"MTH is the only one I know of who mass-produced a 50-foot airslide in O scale. I have a couple and they're pretty nice, and I'll probably convert them at some point."

    Hi Matt, I did a couple of the airslides years ago. They look pretty good when done but IIRC they were a bit undersize.  Mine were old production so I'm not sure if later versions are more scale size.....DaveB

......good candidates for conversion to traction freight cars taking advantage of that smaller size and width.

I have measured the car out and it is definetely slightly under width and 1 scale ft off in height[enclosed pics]

Hibar

Instead of comparing the MTH model of a 50' Gunderson Boxcar to an Atlas model of a 60' Berwick boxcar how about comparing the MTH model to the Gunderson Prototype.

http://www.gbrx.com/files/file...s/BoxCars50Paper.pdf

Both car mfgs are marked 17' ht railhead to car roof top you might want to reference Rail Pictures Archives for accurate info,the CSX car is one of MTHs accurate paint schemes and you will note on the car side the printed data specs as 17' exht this is the standard ht for modern HYcubes not 16'.