Diesel engine side door lockers..has anybody cut these open?

Unlike a real diesel locomotive, there is no prime mover diesel engine inside that hood, so having any open doors, would simply show all the electronics inside. Thus, why bother?

Thus, why bother?...well i got lots of electronics behind the doors and i would also do doors at the prime mover.

willygee posted:

Thus, why bother?...well i got lots of electronics behind the doors and i would also do doors at the prime mover.

OK, but what part of "There is NO prime mover diesel engine!" inside theses models, did you misunderstand?

Looks like a great way to avoid the melted edge issues. Your biggest hurdle will be the pilot hole.

Hot Water posted:

willygee posted:

Thus, why bother?...well i got lots of electronics behind the doors and i would also do doors at the prime mover.

OK, but what part of "There is NO prime mover diesel engine!" inside theses models, did you misunderstand?

Of coarse there is...a pair of 385's

"Diesel engine side door lockers..has anybody cut these open? "

Yes.

Get yourself an old shell to practice on. Everything looks easier when someone else is doing it!

You should try and make the operating hinges first. Maybe someone on Shapeways already has them for sale?

unless the engine is sitting still on a display closer than 36" away, you wouldn't be able to tell that a "real" engine was inside the opening, but you would be able to tell "something" was inside the opening. Some exposed wires inside would be enough to fool the average person about the content. The rivet counters may not like the idea, but if it is what you want, I say go for it.

To HOTWATER...the dude asked for help....not to pass judgement...after all it's toy trains...chill

Some of the most wonderful models I have ever seen have been done by folks cutting open those doors. The doors would be open, hanging on their hinges, with a prime mover and such inserted onto the empty frame. As if the locomotive was being serviced. Looked REALLY great on layouts.

Including old ALCO road switchers. Even in HO, too. Cool!

I wonder if you could get one of the gen-sets mth makes and install a piece of that just inside open doors.

Here's an idea I've been thinking about.  

1) Using a saw with an incredibly fine edge -- cut out a door and save.   Take care with the hinges.

2) Take some measurements

3) Go to Tinkercad and with that tool create for that space something I'll call a 2.5d representation of whatever internal suits you.. I'd skip details myself, just something you know that looks "industrial".

4) Take the model to shapeways and print it out.  I'd probably pick the cheapest plastic process to start with, maybe black... could be white, gray, whatever.

5) While you are waiting for the part to arrive, somehow get the hinges working so the door swings open and closed

6) When the "2.5d" part comes, install it... maybe try tape to start with ...

7) Considering painting it in such a way as to enhance it's "3d-edness" if that makes any sense....

I would suggest experimenting first with shells that have a bit of a problem with them already -- maybe some cracked ones if they be found for cheap, etc...

Father.Dragon, yes that has been done. I believe the other publication has done an article on it as well as the Nazareth Area Society of Model Engineers has such a display on their model railroad. They used a traditional Lionel s 18 non-powered with them the / Lionel repro generator as a " displayed prime mover. It would be really nice if someone did do a correct o scale EMD 567, 645, 710 prime mover or an ALCo 244, 251 prime mover on a steel skid!

BobbyD posted:

Looks like a great way to avoid the melted edge issues. Your biggest hurdle will be the pilot hole.

I think i would start with .010 pilot hole in the corner..enough to get thread through.

MicroMark has a very fine saw that resembles a double-edged razor blade with very fine teeth. They're great for opening up panels. They're very sharp and very brittle. They will break when dropped on a concrete floor... gee I wonder how I know about that. You don't need to drill starting holes and the kerf is only 0.005" so the seam is prototypically small. 

That being said, my question is where do we get a scale EMD 567 prime mover? They're available in HO (of course), but we're left to our own devices. I'm seriously thinking about scratch building one and making it available as a resin set, but that's not happening so fast. I'm been looking for scale drawing of them, and will have to scale them myself. knowing the bore, you can scale the entire drawing from a good cutaway image.

The hot ticket is to find someone with a model of any size and scale it to O-gauge and 3D print it.

Trainman2001, the B&O museum in Baltimore has an EMD 567 on display. Easy to get measurements and photos too! 

Well, there's always the sharp knife method if the string doesn't work....

Trainman2001 posted:

...... That being said, my question is where do we get a scale EMD 567 prime mover? They're available in HO (of course), but we're left to our own devices......

I'd like to know, too.

"Matt01" got unprotoypical modern Cummins diesels from his work. Pewter or something. The scale looked right on.

He had them installed in Atlas RS-3's. It wasn't "correct," but they sure look good. He did a great job with the weathering, etc.

Used a dremel tool, I think on the shell.

Like this one: https://www.shapeways.com/prod...md-645-block-ho-1-87

You'd have to contact the owner to see if they'd re-scale it.  Shapeways has a convenient scale option so to me, it should be a zero brainer.

I found some EMD567 models at "turbosquid" or some such... selling them for 100s of $ ..  simply ridiculous.

https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-...engine-model/1004126

You wont to take my advice but here it is -- go to Tinkercad.  Make something "close-ish" with it yourself -- leave most of the details off but main items -- take that model to shapeways and experiment with various plastic options...  try their default one first and see what it does for you.

The default one will take hollow parts, save some money.

Good suggestion. That rendering was a beauty and does take many hours to create. I can understand why he wants $299 for the image. If you can make an HO 3D printed version, it's truly a no-brainer to simply scale up 181% and make a 1:48 version. I do it all the time in SketchUp. I could draw my own in SketchUp and get it printed. I just have to find the time.

Midwestern Model Works has plans to do 2 rail models where all the doors open and there is a prime mover inside. Its a cahllenge even in brass. His models will be around $4000 each for the premium version

If someone will give me the rough measurements of the main portions on the engine...  I'll do it up in Tinkercad and put it on Shapeways so you can print it -- and it will NOT be $299.

Or I'll just send you the cad files in whatever Tinkercad exports (obj and ... stl I think among others)

My version will be a very rough approximation to start, but maybe add details over time if there is interest.

So far I've printed in the shapeways "default plastic" and PLA.  The details in the first type are fine so far for my uses.  The PLA is very rough with obvious striations, I'd skip this one probably due to that probably.   I've found both to be pretty affordable.   One other thing I like: their default plastic process is more tolerant of hollow space than the PLA.

But their high-res plastic is pricey in larger pieces which is why you see the small scale stuff for sale mostly ... there may be issues with size too -- a large piece might need to be parted in some way and then assembled so that it can fit into the printer. (this may be true in general but it seems vary by process selected)

Personally I think an internal piece which is going to be occluded anyway doesn't need a lot of detail and can be a little rough on the outside... and it'll still look fine.

Then again, could wrong about that.

I was thinking about displaying on a pallet outside of an engine house so the details could really be seen. I guess I should see if I can draw one on SketchUp and export as an STL file.

After looking at a few photos I eyeballed the engine at around 8-9 ft high and 12 ft long.  it depends on what you count "as the engine". 

I like Tinkercad because it's easy and even with seemingly minimal operations (just adding and subtracting geometric shapes)... you can do surprisingly complicated things with it...

It also has a javascript option, such that you could in theory create any shape you want -- assuming you can get some kind of mathematical representation of it into the javascript. (which safe to I think the answer "well you always can...")

But ... I don't think it's really the right way to go for real accuracy or certain kinds of operations -- one thing I've wanted to for example is to "pull" the existing poly-mess around... there's no way to go to it that I can tell in Tinkercad.

So it's been on the list to move up the food-chain so to speak -- I haven't tried sketchup yet -- but that's the next one folks mention before you start to pay money.

Anyway I found this nifty club that claims to have lots of manuals and related on several big diesel engines -- but there's a fee to join:

https://www.barringtondieselcl....za/emd/emd-567.html

And it's not clear they really have scale drawings.

willygee posted:

I would like to modify some of my locomotives and have opening service cabinets and need help how to do it. Here is one method in link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XDFoKaRAhc

 

I have seen Weaver RS3 with this done and RedCaboose GP 9 , the body is very thin , your diesel shell pictured is close to .100 wall thickness that would be hard to hide,but what do I know with all the "experts" on this forum  .

Probably have to scratch-build the doors and maybe thin the areas adjacent to them to look more like sheet metal. We're talking about a static model here, I believe. Be hard to do this one any working engine unless you could find a place for the electronics.

What I've got so far for the EMD 567.   Use your imagination, squint... etc...

Scratchbuilder1-48 posted

I have seen Weaver RS3 with this done and RedCaboose GP 9 , the body is very thin , your diesel shell pictured is close to .100 wall thickness that would be hard to hide,but what do I know with all the "experts" on this forum  .

We have seen that Lehigh Valley RS3 on the Forum before, and it is a masterpiece of modeling.  Not only does it have a nice looking Alco diesel engine, and a steam generator in the short hood, but there's even a scale Air-Push windshield wiper motor on the door!

Yessir! That really is a masterpiece. Does it operate? I suppose you could use NWSL axle motors (very prototypical) and actually make it move. I'd love to do that for a static model that would be outside the engine house. I'd have to run another spur outside of the building (yet to be built).

Matt Makens posted:

Midwestern Model Works has plans to do 2 rail models where all the doors open and there is a prime mover inside. Its a cahllenge even in brass. His models will be around $4000 each for the premium version

And then of course there is the MMW premium DDA40X with all the interior and working doors.  Two people have already signed up for a pair plus a premium fast 40 SD40-2 to have the 2 DDA40Xs spliced by an SD40-2 trio all with the interiors and working doors.  And yes they will have in truck motors to propel them.

I have some excellent pictures of Baldwin engines. My uncle was a mechanical engineer at Baldwin Locomotive Works in the 1940s and 50s. He gave me several books of builder's photos of road switchers, yard switchers, the glorious (or is that inglorious) Centipedes, and photos of prime movers. 

Here's an example:

This is a 1,000 HP, straight 8 engine, generator and exciter. It's not turbocharged and is a 4-stroke diesel so no Root-type blowers either. Therefore; it's probably and easy (yeah, right...) engine to model. The crankcase sides are curved below the centerline, but the angle portion with the access hatches is flat. The hardest part to model would be the cylinder heads. Each head is separate, so model one and resin cast the remainder. Or have them 3d printed, or have one 3D printed and resin cast the rest. The cam box is rectangular with lots of bolts. Notice too there are individual injector pumps sitting on the same cam box. Unlike EMD (GM) which used unit injectors that include the hp pump, throttle and timing controls. Baldwin, like many others at the time, used injector pumps remotely located from the nozzle in the cylinder head. This meant runs of very high pressure tubing (several thousand PSI). 

I found an old article in Mainline Modeler that was a Lima Switcher and showed a section view including the prime mover which was very similar to this baldwin AND it had some dimensions. I superimposed the Baldwin engine scaled to match the section drawing so I actually have some sizes to use in modeling this if I choose to do so.

Scratchbuilder1-48 posted:

I have seen Weaver RS3 with this done and RedCaboose GP 9 , the body is very thin , your diesel shell pictured is close to .100 wall thickness that would be hard to hide,but what do I know with all the "experts" on this forum  .

What a beauty! Bravo!!

Things like that are why I don't call myself a "modeler." lol

It looks like that MMW engine is going to cost something north of $6,000.00. I don't know how many of us on the forum can afford to since 6gs into one locomotive. I suppose there are, but it's kind of frightening.

Here's an update to the 3D model of EMD 567.  It's simply a "rendition" of it... I've no scale drawings or measurements to go by and I'm using Tinkercad which doesn't lend itself that I can tell to that accurate detailed drawings.   I'm reasonably happy so far but plan to add more bits or otherwise change things  -- flywheel, hoses, blowers, pipes, etc... ... I took some measurements from a Lionel SD-40 as a basis for the dimensions -- to ensure it will fit.   Learning from experience in other things I've done in 3D printing,  I put in 4 large bolt holes which don't appear in the real thing at all.  References: There's a ton of pics of these things on the web and a lot of variations -- so I'm just going for a result that looks "plausible" and will fit.  Did I mention affordable?  It's true with CAD you can get all the details you want -- but the 3D print stuff is likely to lose much or a lot of it in the "affordable" kinds of print processes.  Even what i've done with the "ports", some of the edges may be lost or need to be thickened for the printer. The last thing I'll do is hollow it out and that will also make it cheaper to print.

Some additions...