Difficulty in re-adding a PS3 engine

jbmccormick posted:

 

When I put an existing NYC PS3 engine on the tracks, for some reason the one (UP) that could not be added started up as the NYC engine.  I have actually had this happen before on different engines.

 

I don't use the wifi app, but this sounds like you have a problem with conflicting engine IDs. Have you tried deleting the NYC PS3 engine and  re-adding it? 

There is a factory reset that can be done on a PS3 engine with the DCS remote. I would imagine the full featured wifi app would be able to do that as well, but I don't know how to do it or of it's actually possible with the app.

How is the signal strength?

Take the Lionel Legacy engine off the same power source and retry!

I delete the NYC PS3 engine, and was able to re add it, RTR thanks.

Signal strength should not be an issue.  I have 3 TIUs along with 3 DCS Wi-Fi's.  I put the engine in multiple locations and tried to add it no success.  Tomorrow I will take the Legacy engine off as well and try again.

An update on using the DCS remote.  I can somewhat add the engine.  I can make it start up, move and shut down, but it doesn't appear in my roster.  As such when I tried, I could not do a factory reset.

John

I think Engineer-Joe has a good point about the Legacy engine possibly interfering with the DCS signal. 

What engine do you select on the remote when you are able to start, move, and shut down the engine? It still sounds like a possible engine ID conflict somewhere in your system? 

With multiple remotes the engines need to all have the same ID in each remote or strange problems can occur. I don't know how or even if the app syncs engine IDs with the remotes, but I am guessing those being different could also be a problem? 

I will take the Legacy engine off the tracks today, and try it again.  Once the Legacy engine is off the tracks, all that will remain are a few caboose, either Lionel or MTH and 2 CTA subway cars and some miscellaneous freight cars.

Regarding the comment on remotes, I 100% agree, you can have issues if numbers get reassigned.  I use my iPad mainly for running the trains.  I only used my iPhone to see if I could add that specific engine, and couldn't.  

When I was able to add the engine to the DCS remote it came up as 20 or 22 but there was no label associated with it, just blank (i.e., no name).  No conflict on the iPad as it doesn't exist there.  I just select 20 (or22).  I am able to get the engine to start up, shut down and move forward and backward so I know the engine at least works, but this is not a viable solution as I only want to use the iPad to run the trains.

I really appreciate the help.

John 

so I would delete engine 20 and 22 and then try to read ps 3 engine!

Is this a PS-3 diesel or steam engine?  Signal strength includes engine not just layout.  Some early Diesel had issues with wiring running under capacitors killing DCS.  If this has DCC/DCS switch may be issue too.  Legacy can hurt signal on some engines. 

Put this engine by self on test track and try to add.  If it does add check the signal strength.  G

My steps are to add a new engine, then immediatly change the address to a unqiue number.  New engines will default to 1 unless changed.

G and Mr. P,

thanks for your inputs, let me reply.  It is a diesel engine.  it is the UP Spirit of the UP military engine that was the cover of the catalog about 2.5 years a go.  I have not been down in the basement today to also remove the Legacy engine from the tracks but that is for later.  I will look for the DCC/DCS switch as well but the engine ran fine for about a year and then one day while doing a "read" from the DCS W-Fi app, it couldn't find it.

I don't have a test track.  I have three TIU's with three DCS Wi-Fis that support about 25 PS2 PS3 engines.  Over the last few days I added the engines I got for Christmas, both PS3 engines, and no issues.  I deleted other engines and re-added them, no issues.  I have put the engine in question all over my layout, and am at a loss.

I will report back later today.  Again, thank you!!!

John

The Legacy engine is now off the tracks.  

Suspect engine placed in several places no luck adding the engine.  I am not getting as many "request timed" out or "request failed," but still no engine found on the DCS Wi-Fi. 

When I power up the tracks I can hear the electronics - so it's not dead.

On the DCS handheld, it runs, as engine 22, couplers work, smoke unit is on, horn blows.  The title of the engine is still blank which is frustrating but better than absolutely nothing.  I have tried to add a new engine and that has timed out.

In the world of Murphy's law I am going to let it run on my main loop for about 30 minutes now and later tonight and keep trying to add the Wi-Fi at various times and hope for something good.  It will go through each of the DCS Wi-Fi and if for some unknown reason it adds, well then it adds.

Any other ideas would be appreciated as this is extremely frustrating.

John

There is a recover engine command or something like that, seems like I recall reading it only works with TIU 1. I've never used it and don't know if it exists in the app or if it's even appropriate for your problem here?

That's about the extent of my knowledge (some over my head already) for this one as I have never had a problem like this before and not sure what else to suggest? I will defer to the others above that are more knowledgeable and experienced. 

Anyway, good luck and I hope you get things cleared up soon. Please let us all know what the problem was when you get it straightened out. I will still be following along to try and learn more myself.

jbmccormick posted:

...

On the DCS handheld, it runs, as engine 22, couplers work, smoke unit is on, horn blows.  The title of the engine is still blank ...

If this engine has a factory board with original soundset, then....

Dead battery

or

Poor track signal.

I've been wrong before, so?

You can get poor signal to the engine board in other ways. Power rollers could be bad. Poor ground in engine. Dirty wheels. Dry axles. etc.

I would agree with Joe on clean wheel and pickup rollers since this is PS-3 no battery.  If this is already in remote which it is based on it operating in DCS, you can not just readd it.  You said you deleted it before, but if it is still in the remote as eng 22 it did not delet from your system.  Try a factory reset which will delete from remote and then try to readd. G

I had a similar issue with one iPad I use that also would not recognize one particular PS3 engine. Other iPad was not a problem.  I ended up deleting and reloading the app on the iPad and problem went away. 

Here is the update.  I ran the engine from the handheld last night, and it ran fine.  I was still not able to add it in my iPad, and gave up on that and instead just enjoyed all the other trains that were running.

A few replies:

• Joe - I is original factory board and sound board.  I thought these engines didn't have batteries, it's a PS3 engine.   If its a track signal issue, I thought that would have been addressed by attempting it at various spots around my layout, that would hit the various TIUs / Wi-Fis.  Perhaps its the rollers / wheels  will look at those.
• Bub - I tried from my iPhone too no luck.  It doesn't find it.
• G - the DCS remote is somewhat "half-pregnant"  when I power up the remote i can see it as engine 22, the blank.  If I go to scroll through the list of engines 22 does not appear in the active or the inactive ones, as such I can't delete it, and I agree since it's there, I can't add it.  I don't think I can't do a factory reset as I can't see the engine.  Will look at this again later to see if another way.
• RTR - I would really like to know more about the recover engine command.  I know which TIU is TIU1, so that's easy enough but never heard of that command.

Again - thank you for all the help

John

jbmccormick posted:

• Joe - I is original factory board and sound board.  I thought these engines didn't have batteries, it's a PS3 engine.   If its a track signal issue, I thought that would have been addressed by attempting it at various spots around my layout, that would hit the various TIUs / Wi-Fis.  Perhaps its the rollers / wheels  will look at those.

John

They have caps that act like batteries. The caps have to hold the charge. If the circuit or the caps fail, you have the same issues as a dead battery. So the same rules apply still. Check the caps for holding the charge.

You can move the engine all around a layout that has bad signal and it won't matter. You are just hoping for a random strong spot?

You should test the layout for weak areas. You should set up a siding that can be isolated from the layout for adding engines. That makes it easier for larger layouts than removing all powered equipment everytime you wish to add something new.

 Whenever I have a single engine that is acting up, I focus on the engine first. I eliminate all probabilities than move to the rest of the equipment. I have had engines that point out weaknesses before other engines do. You have to have an open mind to find the issue.

You can go to the remote and delete engine 22 without the engine involved.  Same with IPAD if it has an engine 22.  I am thinking it may think the engine is already present, hence not adding.

I would start simple if you can.  Clear the remote data, or using a backup remote that is clear try to add with a simple test track.  If it adds what what address assigned.  Then do a factory reset.

As Joe mentioned when track power is turned off, the engine should play shutdown sounds to record to memory.  G

You guys are the best.

Where are the caps located?  Do they look like batteries?  How are they accessed?  I have a similar PS2 engine so I know where the battery is.  How do you check the charge?

I know the signal around the layout is anywhere from 7-10.  I tested that when I had the layout re-wired.  Yes I hoping for some blind dumb luck in getting the engine to "magically" add.  I will try that again this afternoon when back from lunch.

I agree on the separate siding piece but that ship has sailed.  All the wiring is done so in instances like this, it's basically take stuff off the layout.

Engine 22 is not present in the iPad or the iPhone.  It is also not in the list of active engines or inactive engines in the handheld.  Does that make sense?  It really doesn't to me, but yes that's the fact, when I turn on the remote, 22 is there.

If i were to factory reset the DCS remote would that do anything to the TIUs?  Those have all been programmed so I think the answer is "no."  I don't use the DCS to control the trains, so wiping it is not an issue at all.  I just want to make sure I don't screw something else up in the process.

Again thank you!!!

John

I haven't used the Recover Engine feature, only read about it here on the forum a time or two. I did a quick search and came up with the info below from this thread: Summary of the 14th York DCS Users Group Meeting! 

"Q.- What is the function of Recover Engine?

A.- This function recovers an engine when its DCS ID# has somehow gotten out of the normal range.  When you set an engine ID in your remote to 1 it is not the same in the engine.  The engines internal ID# is actually 2.  When setting remote address to 2 the engines internal ID# is 3, and so forth.  The valid range for engine ID#s is 1 through 100, where 1 is the factory default and 2-100 in the engine correspond to 1-99 in the DCS Remote.   If that engine’s ID# is somehow changed to anything outside of 1-100 the, Recover Engine function will return it to a  value of 1."

From the description, I'm not sure that would help your situation though? Also, if it would help, I am guessing one of the other more knowledgeable folks participating in this thread would have probably mentioned that already. 

I found a description of the Recover Engine procedure as described by Barry in this thread: Mth 2.0 diesel loss of communication with DCS 

"If the engine doesn't operate individually, do the following:

• Delete the engine from the DCS Remote. That should also delete the lashup of which it's a member.
• Place the engine on a track controlled by TIU #1 - it must be TIU #1, no other TIU will work!
• Make certain that no other engines of any kind are powered on.
• Put power to the engine.
• Press: Menu/System/Engine Setup/Recover Engine.

If the remote says "Engine Recovered", re-add the engine and verify that it operates OK."

RTR,

Happy New Years.  I am going to try this later today after I work out.  I will report back on what I find.  Thanks again for your help.

Much appreciated.

John

Happy New Year to you too, and Good Luck!

All you need is a spare piece of track. The important thing is that it should be the only thing connected to the TIU getting power when you attempt to add a new engine.

RTR - no luck no engine recovered.

Joe - I will look into this as an option go forward as sometimes adding an engine is a PITA.  Any thoughts on my other questions?

John

jbmccormick posted:

You guys are the best.

Where are the caps located?  Do they look like batteries?  How are they accessed?  I have a similar PS2 engine so I know where the battery is.  How do you check the charge?

I know the signal around the layout is anywhere from 7-10.  I tested that when I had the layout re-wired.  Yes I hoping for some blind dumb luck in getting the engine to "magically" add.  I will try that again this afternoon when back from lunch.

I agree on the separate siding piece but that ship has sailed.  All the wiring is done so in instances like this, it's basically take stuff off the layout.

Engine 22 is not present in the iPad or the iPhone.  It is also not in the list of active engines or inactive engines in the handheld.  Does that make sense?  It really doesn't to me, but yes that's the fact, when I turn on the remote, 22 is there.

If i were to factory reset the DCS remote would that do anything to the TIUs?  Those have all been programmed so I think the answer is "no."  I don't use the DCS to control the trains, so wiping it is not an issue at all.  I just want to make sure I don't screw something else up in the process.

Again thank you!!!

John

 

Caps are right on the PS3 boards. Normal test is to start up engine and kill power to see if it continues playing shut down sounds or dies right away.

The large white and black caps on diesel PS3 boards should be folded over. You want to route the wires away from the torrid piece of the board so the signal is strong. Some earlier PS3 engines has this issue.

https://ogrforum.com/...ce-needed-with-photo

What version of DCS software is in the remote?  the TIU ?

and WIFI unit?

Worth a try I guess, sorry it didn't help and you're still having problems. The folks here will do all they can to get you fixed up and there are some very knowledgeable folks here. Good luck, I'll still be following along, curious to see what the problem and fix turns out to be. 

Joe -Before I asked "where do I find that?" I went and looked at my laptop.  6.1 from 10/6/2017 is what I have running on my TIUs and my handheld.  The web app is the premium app, (the one that cost approximately $25) is the most current version.  The iOS on my devices are also current for the iPad and iPhone.  I am not sure where to find which version of the Wi-Fi units I have running, but I know last year (around this time) I had updated them.  Does that help?

Joe - Engine shut down in regular DCS fashion - did not die right away.

RTR - thanks.  this has been a head-scratcher for sure 

John

I have seen this in older versions of DCS where a lash-up was built and stored in the exact address that the remote is trying to add the engine to. It won't add the engine because it sees it there in the address. It can't move the lash-up and used to flash an error message. In a later version it just stalled.

So what's in this address in the remote right now?

It doesn't make sense as the app should see and add the engine even if the remote can't. I just think the system is having trouble getting this engine to change it's address for some reason. Usually it's a dead battery, or bad caps. Really poor signal can cause this. I have seen an engine with a scrambled board do weird things too. I have a feeling you should do a conventional reset on the engine that may help it. It may not but it's worth a shot.

You are most welcome. Sorry I didn't have more to offer.

Engineer-Joe has been at this a lot longer than I have and he's much better at fixing these things. You are in very good hands.

Hey guys here is what I see on my iPad and then on the DCS remote in both active and inactive engines.  I also went to take a picture of mystery engine 22 and so that's the last one.  Interestingly it now thinks 22 is a trolley as that's all I see when scroll through the details in the engine, yesterday it wasn't that so somehow I am guessing recover engine did something to it.

John

Those mtc symbols indicate poor track signal

or maybe a dead battery. 

It's time for a tech to reset this engine and test it.

Joe,

I assume there is nothing further I can do and if that's the case will send it for service.  Is that correct?  

I cannot thank you enough for your help on this.  Really sincerely appreciate it

John

Have you tried adding this engine on a test track by itself with no other TIU channels powered?

I've had this happen before and it solved it by adding it to the tiu on test track. After that it ran great and never had a problem.

jbmccormick posted:

  I also went to take a picture of mystery engine 22 and so that's the last one.  Interestingly it now thinks 22 is a trolley as that's all I see when scroll through the details in the engine, yesterday it wasn't that so somehow I am guessing recover engine did something to it.

 

 

John

interesting that it thinks the engine address is zero and not 22 like you describe?

Try a reset or take it to someone who can.

rtr12 posted:

You are most welcome. Sorry I didn't have more to offer.

Engineer-Joe has been at this a lot longer than I have and he's much better at fixing these things. You are in very good hands.

That maybe true but it doesn't mean much if I didn't learn all the while. There are many here right now (and in the past) that are much better problem solvers.

The best solves have come when several people look at the issue from different angles. The best thing is when a poster follows up on what's suggested.

I look forward to any post you make to help me learn more about electrical stuff.

Just a thought.  We were having some issues with the app reading the engines on the track when our handheld would read them.  We decided to go down today and try to figure out why.  

The Wi-Fi unit sits on a transformer cart that is pushed back under our layout table.  We tried a couple of things and then decided to try it with the transformer cart pulled out from under the table.  It read all engines correctly for the first time in awhile.  We pushed it back under the table and again had incorrect engines listed in the active list.

Don’t know what your setup is, but thought I would share our experience.

A few more replies here - I think the summary is take the engine to a LHS and see if I can add it there or get the engine fixed.  Thanks for all the help - much appreciated.

H1000 -I don't have a test track or a separate TIU that is not in use.  Earlier in the thread I described removing all the other engines from the track.

Joe - it was 22 prior to attempting the lost engine recovery command, I wish I would have taken the picture prior to that.  When I turned the DCS remote on yesterday, it came on and was also at speed great that 200 - go figure.  Since I asked for the help - I need to follow whatever advice I can within my constraints to try to fix a problem.

KYSouthern - I appreciate what you are saying, and I think I got to the same place.  Specifically, I kept my phone away and the remote away from the iPad when trying to add the engine.  I also went to different spots around the layout and tried to add the engine across the various TIUs.  I also sat on the couch in my basement and as the engine was running and randomly hit add engine.

The bummer to me on this is that over the Christmas holiday, one of my goals was to run all the engines I have accumulated.  I will still try and do that, just may take longer to get through.

John 

jbmccormick posted:

A few more replies here - I think the summary is take the engine to a LHS and see if I can add it there or get the engine fixed.  Thanks for all the help - much appreciated.

H1000 -I don't have a test track or a separate TIU that is not in use.  Earlier in the thread I described removing all the other engines from the track.

Joe - it was 22 prior to attempting the lost engine recovery command, I wish I would have taken the picture prior to that.  When I turned the DCS remote on yesterday, it came on and was also at speed great that 200 - go figure.  Since I asked for the help - I need to follow whatever advice I can within my constraints to try to fix a problem.

KYSouthern - I appreciate what you are saying, and I think I got to the same place.  Specifically, I kept my phone away and the remote away from the iPad when trying to add the engine.  I also went to different spots around the layout and tried to add the engine across the various TIUs.  I also sat on the couch in my basement and as the engine was running and randomly hit add engine.

The bummer to me on this is that over the Christmas holiday, one of my goals was to run all the engines I have accumulated.  I will still try and do that, just may take longer to get through.

John 

All you have to do is disconnect the outputs from the TIU channels and run two wires from 1 of them to a piece of test track.