Disappointing Lionel Generals!

Hello Allan Miller...........

Some of us ALREADY knew the lionel's generals were and has alway been made in plastic, even the postwar, MPC ,LTI and modern versions.  I even liked the red Santa Fe (i think it was #8005 of the James gang set of the MPC era)   But i never purchased the set due to almost made in 100% plastic except the wheel tires and few parts that are made of metal.

the woman who loves the S.F.#5021

Tiffany

Well Tiffany if you all ready knew what they were like, why do you keep harping about it?

OK, here's my two cents. I bought two Lionel engines that look great, run great and sound great and are of a limited production run. I think that is what I ordered because that is what I got.

In any case we can't compare a $200 engine to a $400 one and forget about a $2K pluss engine that is a work of art.

Another point to remember is that we buy these items to support our club. Of course we wont a good buy for our bucks but the health of the club, so they can continue their good works is a very big consideration. At lest it is important in my book anyway.

Bottom line folks, if you don't like your LCCA engines there is always the OGR Buy/Sell site, or E-Bay. I think you will get your money back on either one.

I didn't order the LCCA General, but my first Lionel train was the 1872 General set. It took a lot of abuse from a 7 year old and shows it today. Maybe it is just the memories, but I have no problem overlooking the size, the plastic construction and the fragile parts, many of which have broken from a child's hard use. I put the set on the rails, dim the lights a lot and it is magic. I remember the set running around in circles on my bedroom floor, the smoke wisping up toward the light on my night table.

I'm sure I'd enjoy the new version with excellent paint and all of the fragile parts attached but I suspect for many purchasers it is all about the magic and the memories, not the prototypical size and plastic body.

Trainfun,

 Very nicely said. Fun and memories.

Henry J

I fixed that on my Toy Story loco. Not a real hard fix but does improve it a bunch for sure.  I cut the 'bay' off the cab front and made a new one from sheet plastic......but I agree it looks bad as is.

SWANKO, you are so right. When I got back into trains in the late 60's I was buying all kinds of great Lionel stuff on the cheap. The fist time I got a General set in the box for about $25 I thought what a deal.......that is tell I ran it. I had always wanted one but couldn't believe how it waddled down the track. I didn't think it was much better than the American Flyer version. At best it's a display engine but not a runner. Don

I run and buy scale stuff but I have a weakness for Lionel Generals.With this pair I believe I have on or about 15...  Had the 1862 set as a kid and my love of them never left. These are 2 nice ,colorful engines .. I have not run them and may never..They'll likely go head to head in a case .. Good job Lou Caponi

Well it is a starter set engine...

They never stated they would be made of plastic either.  In fact, here is exactly what the literature stated:

• Die-cast arch bar trucks on tender with operating coupler on one end

• Polished nickel style wheels

• Painted large drive wheels

• Sound system includes steam chuff, bell, whistle, squealing brakes, & puffing smoke

• First use of high gloss paint on the locos to depict a true museum restoration

• High luster side rods

• Gold or chrome plated (not painted) components, depending on the locomotive

• Headlight with builders plate

• Imitation wood tender load

• Discrete LCCA markings

• Short history page about The Great Locomotive Chase

• Maintenance-free motor

• Limited Edition production certificate

• New style traction tire for added pulling power

• Special 150th Anniversary box

When one reads things such as "true museum restoration" and "imitation wood tender load" in conjunction with the fact starter set 4-4-2's are diecast I would not be happy about a half plastic engine either.   I'm just glad I didn't order based on the pics.

If you like them great, if not that is fine too.  Each is entitled to their own opinion. No need to bash over it.

--Greg

Exactly.

I didn't order these, but when I saw all the announcements, it was pretty clear to me that these were traditional PW style Generals with a few modern (sound system) enhancements.  For the price, I can't imagine how anyone would think they were new scale tooling approaching anything like SMR offerings or the Lincoln Funeral Train.

I read the above line referencing "true museum restoration" very differently than Greg, though.  If it was a newlly tooled model, there would be no reason to say "first use of high gloss paint". 

The phrase "First use of high gloss paint" to me darn near explicitly states that these are engines that have been done in the past, and the paint is unique on these, unlike any done before (not that I am a true afficionado, but most are somewhat flat finish, I believe).

To me the "Imitation wood tender load" phrase is also a clear indicator.  If it was being promoted as a scale piece, it would say something like "real wood tender load" (like used for the funeral train) 

It's important to remember, this is the Lionel Collectors Club of America.  Collectors value such aspects like the uniqe paint, components that are plated that normally are not, etc.

-Dave

Sometimes, you folks are dang funny! 

Oh, it was quite easy, actually.  Since I had no interest and was not going to buy one I never even looked at a single ad or description of them - or knew that they cost so little (which is a dead give-away they are not quality locos like that in the LFT).  the only reason I looked in on this thread and got interested is because it became clear from its length that there was something interesting here . . .

My thinking was (and still is) that Lionel, having paid for the tooling to produce the absolutely exquisite, metal, can-motor-powered, very detailed if delicate scale loco in the Lincoln funeral set, would want to use that same tooling again as soon as possible, to recover costs and make money.  I can't imagine what is on their mind not to bring out other locos from that tooling, but instead continue to offer what may be the worst loco they produce - the worst toy loco on the market, for that matter. 

My thinking was (and still is) that Lionel, having paid for the tooling to produce the absolutely exquisite, metal, can-motor-powered, very detailed if delicate scale loco in the Lincoln funeral set, would want to use that same tooling again as soon as possible, to recover costs and make money. 

You are way off base, this was NOT a Lionel offering. It was a LCCA club offering to its members. The LCCA made it very clear on what the members were getting, there was full page articles in the clubs magazines. It is an opportunity for the club to make a profit to support the clubs activities. If the club offered a variation of the Lincoln Train it would not sell due to the over the top price for what you get. There are only so many in the hobby that can be suckered into buying the Lincoln Train which is why I guess the LRRC is dumping them to dealers.

 Ididn't miss them I just didn't read them: I normally never look at anything having to do with generals because I had little interest in them.  As I said - it was this thread itself (its length) that led me to open it and look.  And it IS interesting.  I've learned about a different side of this hobby - not one I participate in, but one that clearly interests some folks.  It has been worth the time because it makes me understand the hobby and how Lionel operates better. 

Just sometimes?  

I've never had much interest in any of Lionel's Generals, other than I've wondered how nice one would look if I were to repaint it and add a few details, like maybe a real wood pile in the tender, some pin striping, decorative stars, etc.

Which Generals ran on DC only?

quote:

You are way off base, this was NOT a Lionel offering. It was a LCCA club offering to its members.

Lionel didn't have them made for the LCCA?

Probably what's on their mind is that the Nashville from the Lincoln train looks absolutely nothing like the General, or the Texas, or really any other 4-4-0. If you think the complaints about this engine are bad, I assure you if they painted up the Nashville and called it the General, you'd have heck to pay.

It was my understanding that the Lincoln Funeral engine was a brass locomotive (like my SMR 4-4-0's).  If that is the case, there is no tooling.  Those locomotives are made differently than the mass-produced plastic and diecast locos most of us are familiar with.

And in my honest opinion, the Traditional line Lionel 4-4-0's are fine little locomotives for the price.  I grew up with the MPC era "General" and played with it for countless hours (the price point was probably why I was allowed to play with it as much as I did).  When I got back into trains, the first two locomotives I bought were Lionel 4-4-0's - one new, and the other an MPC era "General" (the one I played with in my youth was my brother's).  I've even had my MPC era "General" pulling 14 cars on level track with O72 curves, and this is a loco without traction tires.  I have a total of 9 Lionel 4-4-0's and I like them all.

I also have one MTH RailKing 4-4-0 (a "Texas"), and comparing it to the Lionel 4-4-0 is an apples-to-oranges comparison (in construction, sound and operation), as other have said.  The MTH version is even larger than the Lionel, and while it has some aesthetic advantages over the Lionel 4-4-0 (like spoked drivers), I find it to be rather ugly.  But again, that is a matter of personal taste.

I've stated on other threads that I am happy with my LCCA "General" and "Texas" set, and they will occupy an honored spot in my collection along side my SMR "General" and "Texas" locomotives.  Of course, I knew what I was going to be getting when I bought all of my locomotives.

Andy

Pics?

Where's Capt. Caps Lock when you need him?  Perhaps this should have been posted in the LCCA forum to garner a response..?

According to a posting earlier on this very thread, Lou is currently on vacation.  Or doesn't he deserve one?

Rusty

Lionel didn't have them made for the LCCA?

I have run my pair. The General does run faster than the Texas, maybe after a few hours of run time they will be equal.

Maybe they geared it backwards, because the Texas was chasing the General backwards! I know, that would be giving them way too much credit.

Two pages of info on the Lionel Generals and not one photo!  I have to go to the Lionel site to check these babies out!   

I received the 2528WS 5 Star General Set for Christmas 1959 at the age of 6. It has always been one of my favorites. It didn't matter to me that it was made of plastic. I would have thought any one who has a membership in the LCCA would know that a Lionel General locomotive is plastic. It must have been reissued at least 20 times in the last 35 years!

https://ogrforum.com/d...nt/10299794802439511

Scroll down to the 4th post.

Rusty

TexSpecial your 100% correct. The key is that it is another Lionel product and many member despise any current production Lionel. They are basically dishonest and since the owner of the forum allows Lionel bashing there is nothing that can be done. But the since economy is not likely to come back anytime soon I look forward to the day when Lionel will be the last one standing.

I dunno.  I'm not an expert on these but they look fine to me aside from the glossy wood loads in the tenders.

Um, this really isn't a Lionel v. MTH thread, despite your efforts to turn it into that.

And, here's a picture of the Lionel original from a certain online auction site:

Rusty

Funny how folks know that a Lionel plastic frieght car cost upwarfds of $70-$80 retail in most cases. So why on earth would one think they were getting anything else but plastic in a steam engine for $200.00 once they add in the electronics and the motor?

There's an easier way.  Just "google image" Lionel General and you will get tons of photos.  How come members forget to google first.  So much info.

TEX

Steve

Here's my original #1862. No lights, no smoke, no Magnatraction, unprototypical, lotsa plastic, but I love this little guy...sniff, sniff. 

If you read my previous post I was referring my comments to any and all O gauge trains, not specifically Lionel.  I also should not have used the word "bashing", my bad.  I should have used the word complaining, whining, crying, pouting or something similar. 

I'm not against constructive criticism, but some comments on this thread just go way beyond that, almost hateful.  I can see new members, I mean really new, not knowing the background of the Lionel General, but others should know what the locomotive is constructed with.  I have the LCCA set and they are just what was advertized.  They have the most beautiful "gloss" point job I have seen on one of these engines.  The Lionel general has its shortcomings but it sure attracts a lot of positive attention when I run it on the layout.......that alone is worth the expense to me. 

Researching on a particular locomotive or anything you purchase is something you should always do.  With today's web this information is at your fingertips.

TEX

Steve

!?

Lionel General, as per images search.  Check out that hair!  Get Wildroot Cream Oil, General.

Pete

Google "Lionel 1872" instead.

Rusty