Disassembly of: Lionel 6-11312 Milwaukee Road LEGACY Scale 4-8-4 S-3 Northern

John, I really don't know. Looking up the S3, saw this topic but I can't see where there is any tips on removing the shell even though someone says thanks for the tips on removing the shell.

Milwaukee Road S3 from Lionel

I don't know if it will help, you did comment on page 2. See if that helps John. Maybe Pat will comment or knows how.

John, have you looked at the Lionel discreption on this model? Looks like tons of newer features for 2011. It appears to have cylinder chest steam effect, Mars light, duel fat boy speakers etc. If it has blow down steam maybe something to do with tubing is holding you up. I sure hope someone is able to help you as you have helped so many of us.

Brad

Yep, looked at everything I could find.  Most of the stuff like cylinder steam is on the chassis, it's just lights on the top boiler shell.

It could be one of those handrail sprues snagging on something.

@Paul Kallus had his apart in that thread link above. Otherwise maybe @Alex M has had one of these apart.

It appears that the front of the boiler is limited in movement by the smoke unit, and the cab doesn't clear the back of the walkways.  I can't see how to move it back far enough to lift the rear with the cab free.

Does the cab separate from the boiler on this one? It looks like there are two screws holding them together. See the pic here. The boiler is #1 and the cab is #30.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It appears that the front of the boiler is limited in movement by the smoke unit, and the cab doesn't clear the back of the walkways.  I can't see how to move it back far enough to lift the rear with the cab free.

I had to remove the engineer from his seat as he was hitting the control stand. That is what gave me the clearance needed but there there might be other ways?

Hi John, if your 4-8-4 is anything like my Northern 4-8-4 GS-2 and GS-6, the cab and the boiler come off the chassis separately. They would not remove from the chassis in one piece. I'm certainly no expert, I just know how my GS's are assembled, so I'd thought I'd share it with you. Good luck with your project challenge!

I'll have to look closer, I didn't see any screws to separate the cab, but maybe I didn't look hard enough.

I went and pulled mine off the shelf and I forgot to put the engineer back. This shows that the control stand is attached to the upper boiler backhead and when sliding the shell back to clear- the engineer's legs get smashed between the control stand and the diecast seat stand. Removing the figure allows the cab to slide back, clear the little external lip. The engineer was glued to the diecast seat.

Again, in this first picture, the cab must slide backwards but the entire boiler backhead and the attached control stand then moves back with the cab towards the seat that is attached to the floor and lower frame.

This side view externally, the little red ledge or lip on the bottom of the cab has to slide back to clear the lip of the walkway on the side of the boiler (attached to the lower frame). Again, the entire boiler shell slides slightly back, taking the cab with it while the walkway remains stationary- but that engineer's legs prevent the shell from coming all the way back.

Thanks, that appears to be exactly what is happening to me, the lip on the cab can't clear the walkway.  I guess I have to take another look and maybe yank that engineer.

Sorry I missed this thread,….but Vern has the right answer, ….I fixed one of these that got knocked out of quarter on a simple tire change!!….I have no clue who’s did the engineering on some of those 2010-2015 models, but my god, they need to go back to school!!…..John, wiggle the shell aroumd and you’ll see the engineer refusing to give up the release …..it’s easy to pop him out of his seat, a bit of a klutz to put him back, ….but doable…..as Vern mentioned, the cab stays on the top half, there’s no way to access the cab screws …..whatever happened to a one piece boiler, bolted to a main frame???….I guess on some models, it’s a blessing, on this one, and many more like it, it’s a nightmare if you got to do any serious work,…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Sorry I missed this thread,….but Vern has the right answer, ….I fixed one of these that got knocked out of quarter on a simple tire change!!….I have no clue who’s did the engineering on some of those 2010-2015 models, but my god, they need to go back to school!!…..John, wiggle the shell aroumd and you’ll see the engineer refusing to give up the release …..it’s easy to pop him out of his seat, a bit of a klutz to put him back, ….but doable…..as Vern mentioned, the cab stays on the top half, there’s no way to access the cab screws …..whatever happened to a one piece boiler, bolted to a main frame???….I guess on some models, it’s a blessing, on this one, and many more like it, it’s a nightmare if you got to do any serious work,…

Pat

Well, I have to get inside...  I saw the odd clearances in the cab, but I guess I just couldn't believe I had to rip out an engineer to remove the shell!  This begs the question, how did they put it together in the first place?   I didn't think I could get the cab off without taking the shell off.  I looked all over for screws that would release the cab, that seemed obvious, but obviously it wasn't to the lame designers!

Truthfully, I like the removable top, locomotives like the newer Challenger and Big Boy are a dream to work on, some of the old stuff you have to drop the lead articulated truck, etc.

@dkdkrd posted:

GRJ...

If I were faced with this Chinese puzzler, the first thing I'd do is get some tiny neodymium magnets and drill a couple 1/16" holes in the engineer's bench and his butt, CA a couple of those magnets (being sure the polarities are aligned to grab...not 'launch'), and make this assembly nightmare a whole lot easier to deal with the next time!

But, that's just me...a dab of Aileen's Tacky Poop would work, too.

And, WOW!  Even our beloved guru get's stumped now and then!  No wonder this fraternity is so comfortable!

KD

That sounds like a lot of work, I don't plan on dealing with this again.   I'll probably use hot glue, it makes it pretty easy to yank him out again if necessary.

It this were electronic, I wouldn't be stumped.

@harmonyards posted:

Sorry I missed this thread,….but Vern has the right answer, ….I fixed one of these that got knocked out of quarter on a simple tire change!!….I have no clue who’s did the engineering on some of those 2010-2015 models, but my god, they need to go back to school!!…..John, wiggle the shell aroumd and you’ll see the engineer refusing to give up the release …..it’s easy to pop him out of his seat, a bit of a klutz to put him back, ….but doable…..as Vern mentioned, the cab stays on the top half, there’s no way to access the cab screws …..whatever happened to a one piece boiler, bolted to a main frame???….I guess on some models, it’s a blessing, on this one, and many more like it, it’s a nightmare if you got to do any serious work,…

Pat

I guess I should have messaged you like I initially thought about doing Pat since you were verbal in the thread I posted. It was around dinner time for me which is why my input wasn't that much. I had quickly searched after seeing John's post here, and looked up Lionel S3. I even want to Lionel's parts list but figured that wouldn't help much as I thought John would have already looked into that. After all, I do know that the first rule before taken something apart is looking at everything you can before getting knee-deep into it. I'm sure John looked at all that and then the weird design gave that silly monkey wrench we all don't like. Next time I'll listen to my gut and say, "Pat, John posted this, any idea how?"

How you plan to hot glue the dude back to the seat will be an interesting challenge, …..I used 5 minute epoxy, and pair of angled tweezers to sit him back properly,……I also agree the halved boilers can be a blessing for top side work, …but heavy mechanical work, ….fooey!!…..anybody that’s pulled apart a CCII Niagara to get to the bowels of that locomotive can surely attest,……

Pat

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I guess I should have messaged you like I initially thought about doing Pat since you were verbal in the thread I posted. It was around dinner time for me which is why my input wasn't that much. I had quickly searched after seeing John's post here, and looked up Lionel S3. I even want to Lionel's parts list but figured that wouldn't help much as I thought John would have already looked into that. After all, I do know that the first rule before taken something apart is looking at everything you can before getting knee-deep into it. I'm sure John looked at all that and then the weird design gave that silly monkey wrench we all don't like. Next time I'll listen to my gut and say, "Pat, John posted this, any idea how?"

Ain’t no biggie Dave, ……John & I stay in regular contact anyways,…..we’re always bouncing stuff off each other’s noggins, …..not that my mellon is of much use, …..it’s as dense as granite, …..😉

Pat

Well, yes, the CCII Niagara is a bear to get to the gearbox!  My plan is to glue his bottom and use the same angled tweezers to stick him back.

@harmonyards posted:

Ain’t no biggie Dave, ……John & I stay in regular contact anyways,…..we’re always bouncing stuff off each other’s noggins, …..not that my mellon is of much use, …..it’s as dense as granite, …..😉

Pat

If yours is granite, mine must be very hard indeed. When I was a very young man I hit a rack at work with it. Coworkers said I put a dent in that beam. I'd believe, though I didn't see it.

Yeah, I know that there is the great community of you all saying what's the best way to deal with some of these puzzles. Great to see that at work or behind the scenes.

@harmonyards posted:

…..not that my mellon is of much use, …..it’s as dense as granite, …..😉

That's why I use it for the "hard" stuff.

Wow...this is crazy! You would think Lionel would have a repair bulletin on something like this (assuming they issue them).

Or maybe chalk it up to "job security"? 😁

@Junior - Yes, I agree with you.  I've heard of 'Built-In Obsolescence' but THIS seems/sounds ridiculous!  

@Junior posted:

Wow...this is crazy! You would think Lionel would have a repair bulletin on something like this (assuming they issue them).

Or maybe chalk it up to "job security"? 😁

When Mike Reagan was at the wheel at the big L, you’d bet your bottom dollar he’d have a bulletin, and more than likely a tutorial video, explaining how to unseat the little dude to get at shell removal, …..nowadays, it’s good luck!….we’re rooting for ya!!

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

When Mike Reagan was at the wheel at the big L, you’d bet your bottom dollar he’d have a bulletin, and more than likely a tutorial video, explaining how to unseat the little dude to get at shell removal, …..nowadays, it’s good luck!….we’re rooting for ya!!

Hmm...  This is a 2011 model, I think Mike was at Lionel 12 years ago.

Mike always did indepth tutorials on any number of things. I can remember watching one years and years ago(when he was still there just barely) and how he took the time explaining everything in great detail. Gotta love Mike's insight on making sure he made it so you would understand what he was saying.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Hmm...  This is a 2011 model, I think Mike was at Lionel 12 years ago.

If he was still there, and aware there was an issue, …..to be sure he would’ve developed the work around for servicing,….

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Hmm...  This is a 2011 model, I think Mike was at Lionel 12 years ago.

2016 John. Just saw your post from some other forum.

@Junior posted:

Wow...this is crazy! You would think Lionel would have a repair bulletin on something like this (assuming they issue them).

Or maybe chalk it up to "job security"? 😁

I laughed on the repair bulletin part.  Lionel hasn't provided much help to us service centers since 2009!

Jim

Well, removing the engineer was indeed the silver bullet, the shell popped right off without him in the way.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, removing the engineer was indeed the silver bullet, the shell popped right off without him in the way.

That rascal!

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

That rascal!

Imagine that, getting his silly feet in the way.  You'd think he'd have been screaming when was jamming the shell forward and crushing his foot!

Can you even see his feet from a detail perspective? If not, just cut his feet off before you glue the rascal back in so you won't need to remove him again if you need to disassemble later.

Brad

It turns out the figure is actually friction fit onto a post in the seat, so putting him in and taking him out isn't a big deal when you know it's necessary.  I'll just leave him out until I'm sure all is well and then stick him back in.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, removing the engineer was indeed the silver bullet, the shell popped right off without him in the way.

John, glad you figured it out with all the wonderful help from the good folks in the his forum! It appears Lionel knew about the issue since they didn't glue the engineer in, but rather a method to remove and replace him for the purpose of removing the boiler/cab assembly. It's unfortunate for the poor engineer that he has to operate the locomotive with a post up his, well I don't think I have to say it.

Yep, got to be uncomfortable operating a locomotive that way!

I still put a dot of epoxy on the engineer, although he sits on a post, he wasn’t tight enough for my liking, beings I had to ship the engine back to the owner, ….nothing more disappointing then to open the box, and the dude running the engine is flying around in the cab,……

Pat