Discontinued IRV2 - why?

You got me, I'm buying an extra IRV2 and a couple extra sled kits so I have enough for my layout.

I think Lionel is counting on the Fastrack sensor track, I guess they don't recognize that a lot of us don't use Fastrack because we can't hold a conversation next to the layout and run trains.

This one does puzzle me. Is it possible, with the Cab 3 and phone app, future engines could transmit data with bluetooth?

@WinstonB posted:

This one does puzzle me. Is it possible, with the Cab 3 and phone app, future engines could transmit data with bluetooth?

Okay, possible...but why aren't all sensor track products cancelled then?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You got me, I'm buying an extra IRV2 and a couple extra sled kits so I have enough for my layout.

I think Lionel is counting on the Fastrack sensor track, I guess they don't recognize that a lot of us don't use Fastrack because we can't hold a conversation next to the layout and run trains.

I maybe off the mark here but I still think this was one that everyone requested and when finally produced those who said they'd buy 'em never did.  It could very well have been not worth the cost.  Again I maybe off base.  Only Lionel knows for sure.

I said I wanted them and I bought them, so don't blame it on me!

Maybe they have a ton of the Fastrack sensor tracks sitting in the warehouse, and they don't want to announce it's "retirement"until they sell some of them.

I had a hard time finding them.  I have one now but only one.  So much for expansion.

@superwarp1 posted:

I had a hard time finding them.  I have one now but only one.  So much for expansion.

Try here: https://tandkhobby.com/6-85296...-sensortrack-2-irv2/

Expansion pack: https://trainshack.com/lcs-irv2-sensor-add-on.html

I scooped up several IRV2 kits and extra sensor sled kits for myself and a friend over the weekend after seeing the product cancellations.   I had previously modified the original FasTrack SensorTrack but when Lionel announced the IRV2 I decided to go with those as I use Gargraves track and Ross switches.  Wonder how many of these Lionel still has in the warehouse?  I know a few large clubs that have installed these and were planning on getting more.  

I thought it was odd that they were discontinue as well.  I have to believe lack of sales, nobody wants one until they say they won't make 'em, was possibly behind this. Maybe there is a new item coming out?   

We can guess all day long or put up the @Dave Olson signal and maybe he might chime in...

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Try here: https://tandkhobby.com/6-85296...-sensortrack-2-irv2/

Expansion pack: https://trainshack.com/lcs-irv2-sensor-add-on.html

Thanks John, Awesome.

I have two saddles installed, one of each of my main lines.  No backups though...  This is certainly a product they should keep in the lineup.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Try here: https://tandkhobby.com/6-85296...-sensortrack-2-irv2/

Expansion pack: https://trainshack.com/lcs-irv2-sensor-add-on.html

Sadly seems the hoarders struck and cleaned them out after your post John! 😉

@MartyE posted:

Again I maybe off base.

"Off base"...or did you mean "off base3"...or "off starbase"?

@MartyE posted:

I maybe off the mark here but I still think this was one that everyone requested and when finally produced those who said they'd buy 'em never did.  It could very well have been not worth the cost.  Again I maybe off base.  Only Lionel knows for sure.

I requested it...I bought it...now what?

@MartyE posted:

I thought it was odd that they were discontinue as well.  I have to believe lack of sales, nobody wants one until they say they won't make 'em, was possibly behind this. Maybe there is a new item coming out?   

We can guess all day long or put up the @Dave Olson signal and maybe he might chime in...

I emailed him and no response.  Most times if he responds within minutes it's something he can talk about.  Other times if I don't hear from him, it's something he feels he shouldn't talk about.  Just a guess here.   I'll ask if I see them at the Amherst show.

@BobbyD posted:

Sadly seems the hoarders struck and cleaned them out after your post John! 😉

Sorry about that, I bought one of each for my layout, and then posted the links.   Hopefully I won't need any more, it appears there aren't any more coming.

Fwiw. Nicholas Smith shows these in stock as well as Legacy station.

I don't understand why Lionel is doing away with these.  First the #990 & #993 now this.  Only they know the answer.

@feet posted:

I don't understand why Lionel is doing away with these.  First the #990 & #993 now this.  Only they know the answer.

They already explained why the Cab2s and their associated base or chargers is being discontinued. They can’t get the components to make them.

@MartyE posted:

They already explained why the Cab2s and their associated base or chargers is being discontinued. They can’t get the components to make them.

Hard to believe that would apply to the IRV2 and sensor extensions, they're still offering the Fastrack Sensor track...

This is very sad to hear. I got to be for our clubs new layout and just such a convince to be able to load the engine info. I have one at home too hopefully it works, I use a Fastrack one on a test track and it’s great to be able to see all the additional information. I’d love to be able to see that on a Cab3 app if I got it.

Frankly I think we deserve an explanation on this, they decide to go this route instead of the orange memory module (witch I actually do like, once it’s implemented on a layout) but now decided in what 1 production run they aren’t feasible anymore? It’s crazy.

Now not saying I want this but if you look at it you really get a bang for you buck with the IRV2 frankly that so much so that I could understand a price increase if absolutely necessary. (Frankly considering the few parts and that the engineering is done I don’t know why a increase would be necessary)

First, electronics cost exploded on these. What a crazy market right now..

Second, not enough people bought them. I understand the "wait and see" and "sit on the fence" mentality. I've done it plenty. But sometimes that forces a business' hand.

They may come back in the future if electronics costs go down. We still have the FasTrack version of the sensor and all Legacy engines will still continue to get the sensor as well.

@Dave Olson posted:

First, electronics cost exploded on these. What a crazy market right now..

Second, not enough people bought them. I understand the "wait and see" and "sit on the fence" mentality. I've done it plenty. But sometimes that forces a business' hand.

They may come back in the future if electronics costs go down. We still have the FasTrack version of the sensor and all Legacy engines will still continue to get the sensor as well.

Well, there you have it.  I have to say, I've seen component costs go crazy as well, so it's not that surprising.  I'm a little confused about the Fastrack version still being around, maybe you could at least make the expansion sleds for those of us that did actually buy them. 

Just goes to say, when you ask for something like this and they make it, buy it.

I have 2 complete sets for when I start the more permanent layout. Now I’ll have to search for more as I thought they’d be around.

I'm primarily a DCS guy but I also have Cab 2 Legacy.   My layout is Ross track.  It think the sensor track is a big difference between DCS and Legacy.  IMHO, there was not enough advertising on how the Sensor Tracks can be used.   Also, the setup sounds daunting.   I own a couple of IRV2 and sleds and the boxcar.  I don't have any Legacy engines but for me the Sensor Track is a big inducement to purchase Legacy engines.    I vote for bring back the IRV2 and sleds and improve the marketing.

I get the cost has gone up on things but it did not stop them from jacking the prices up on the rest of their products and considering the low quantities the stores had on this stuff and lack of stock in the Warehouse. I have a hard time believing low sales and also find it hard to believe they sell more of the fasttrack version.

I second what @shorling said although I am active in both systems I am just now at the point of pulling the trigger on the layout and am now needing these. Plus I just did a lot of homework and figured out how useful this is now the discontinued notice has come to light and really had no clue of the functionality or existance. So marketing was done it looks like to me in 2018 but no hype or mention since then. Demo with Dave @Dave Olson has the perfect opportunity to hype this kind of stuff when calling out new engine feature to keep it relative.

Thanks @Dave Olson for the response.   If I'm reading the website correctly.  Lionel still has these in stock at their store.

@superwarp1 posted:

Thanks @Dave Olson for the response.   If I'm reading the website correctly.  Lionel still has these in stock at their store.

nope Lionel has no stock

@shorling posted:

I'm primarily a DCS guy but I also have Cab 2 Legacy.   My layout is Ross track.  It think the sensor track is a big difference between DCS and Legacy.  IMHO, there was not enough advertising on how the Sensor Tracks can be used.   Also, the setup sounds daunting.   I own a couple of IRV2 and sleds and the boxcar.  I don't have any Legacy engines but for me the Sensor Track is a big inducement to purchase Legacy engines.    I vote for bring back the IRV2 and sleds and improve the marketing.

I agree 100%.  The whole LCS system wasn't marketed well at all!  I have a few sensor cars that I bought for peanuts when people couldn't figure out what they might do with them.  I paid less than the MSRP of a plain boxcar for them, so it seemed like a no-brainer.  The whole LCS system has great promise, but it needs a little TLC.

Another benefit of the Cab 3 is you can isolate the IRV2 from the rest of the daisy chain LCS. I have two, now it's one plus a back up.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I agree 100%.  The whole LCS system wasn't marketed well at all!  I have a few sensor cars that I bought for peanuts when people couldn't figure out what they might do with them.  I paid less than the MSRP of a plain boxcar for them, so it seemed like a no-brainer.  The whole LCS system has great promise, but it needs a little TLC.

Dave tried at York a couple of times to display all the LCS modules with a podium display but shortly after they started bringing a limited amount of people, stopped coming in April, and, well the pandemic hit.  I do agree the LCS system needs some love from Lionel for promoting and explaining.  We did our best in the Legacy meetings but again twice a year doesn't really help.

I remember the Lionel display, but as I recall there wasn't much actually happening on the display.  I'd like to see some improvements in the iPad interface, not to mention an Android version of the app.  With all the talk about various layout automation schemes, Lionel should be in a unique position to really make a dent in the market with an improved LCS.

Actually, the most TLC it received was in the LUG meetings, that's where I got on-board and interested.

@MartyE posted:

Dave tried at York a couple of times to display all the LCS modules with a podium display but shortly after they started bringing a limited amount of people, stopped coming in April, and, well the pandemic hit.  I do agree the LCS system needs some love from Lionel for promoting and explaining.  We did our best in the Legacy meetings but again twice a year doesn't really help.

I have been unable to attend York due to conflicts with work and family issues so I have not attended since way before 2017 so not even LUG would have helped me sorry to say. I am hoping to get back soon.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, the most TLC it received was in the LUG meetings, that's where I got on-board and interested.

Thanks.  We tried to do what we could.  Unfortunately we have limited time and a lot to cover depending on what Lionel introduces.  I'm guessing the next "real" meeting in the fall maybe interesting.  If we get the room in April maybe we can do some review.

If the meet chairman ever gets back to me we'll see if we can get these in gear again.  Might be time to ding him again.

Looking forward to it.

@MartyE posted:

Dave tried at York a couple of times to display all the LCS modules with a podium display but shortly after they started bringing a limited amount of people, stopped coming in April, and, well the pandemic hit.  I do agree the LCS system needs some love from Lionel for promoting and explaining.  We did our best in the Legacy meetings but again twice a year doesn't really help.

I always thought that Lionel could easily incorporate the various LCS modules into the existing layout.  Have a large screen mirroring an iPad that is using LCS.  Do nothing but let an engine run the layout that would trigger a couple of switches, fire a sensor track with info, etc.  People IMO would get interested when they see the display changes when a switch is thrown or when an engine goes over a sensor track and IDs itself and shows direction of travel.  Even maybe make a recording from a second sensor track for a few animated accessories.

The screen would show whats happening and I think folks would start asking questions.  This is a bit of what Dave had going but I don't recall there being a screen for people to see or any switches. Maybe an upgrade for the LCS podium.  The LCS app is pretty cool and makes firing switch, accessories, and toggling blocks much easier.

@MartyE posted:

I always thought that Lionel could easily incorporate the various LCS modules into the existing layout.  Have a large screen mirroring an iPad that is using LCS.  Do nothing but let an engine run the layout that would trigger a couple of switches, fire a sensor track with info, etc.  People IMO would get interested when they see the display changes when a switch is thrown or when an engine goes over a sensor track and IDs itself and shows direction of travel.  Even maybe make a recording from a second sensor track for a few animated accessories.

The screen would show whats happening and I think folks would start asking questions.  This is a bit of what Dave had going but I don't recall there being a screen for people to see or any switches. Maybe an upgrade for the LCS podium.  The LCS app is pretty cool and makes firing switch, accessories, and toggling blocks much easier.

Marty I agree with this and you know @Dave Olson Does Demo's with Dave and I watch those and he gets pretty good turn out from what I have seen and could very easily covered this on his show. Like I said I had no real knowledge of the function or availability until this notice and maybe this is my fault for not being able to attend York. I had a glimpse of LCS but until @gunrunnerjohn mentioned the LSC and DZ2500 issues I had no real knowledge of it either. The most I knew was to get the LCS wifi module to run trains on an ipad which I was planning for just to cover all bases and realized I already had one my VL BB.

@Dave Olson posted:

First, electronics cost exploded on these. What a crazy market right now..

Second, not enough people bought them. I understand the "wait and see" and "sit on the fence" mentality. I've done it plenty. But sometimes that forces a business' hand.

They may come back in the future if electronics costs go down. We still have the FasTrack version of the sensor and all Legacy engines will still continue to get the sensor as well.

Thanks for the Info Dave. That’s Crazy component prices went up that much. Then again I get at minimum 10% price increases at work every 3-6 months now in new equipment.  

I really hope Lionel is able to offer this again. I really thought the restricted cable length was going to limit it’s use but in our clubs case it worked out very well.

For the limited cable length, I just bought a couple of the IRV2 boxes.  A longer cable from the junction box would be useful, but I figured I'd live with what was provided.