Discovered old K line A B set

Without pictures it is probably an early traditional sized kline product.  The switch on the bottom is the direction lockout switch.  These were rockets, similar to williams as far as speed goes.

Terry,

Click this link. I'm fairly certain this is what you have. Strictly conventional. Attempting to convert to command control would be a nightmare, IMHO. The switch may be an e-unit lock out.

Chris

LVHR

@lehighline posted:

Terry,

Attempting to convert to command control would be a nightmare, IMHO.

Chris

LVHR

And specifically why would this be?  I'm thinking about buying the WP version.

What's unusual about it that makes this adding command control so difficult?

Mike

Looks like some nice units.

These units have horizontal DC can motors buried in each of the trucks. No way are you getting a flywheel in there! I haven't run mine in a while, so I forget if they stop on a dime or not. Usually the A unit is setup as the master, and the other units as slaves. Everything is connected with tethers through the end doors. The other options are to convert to verticle can motors, which I don't know is possible, or to go with a command control setup that uses back EMF to sense how fast the motors are turning. Again, I don't know if this is possble, or how much surgery is required.

Chris

LVHR

Flywheels are not necessary, in general. I have some early Lionel PA's with TMCC/no flywheels/no cruise and they re not jerky. Flywheels are a good thing, however, when you have them. But you can't have them on these trucks.

An ERR Cruise Commander would be an easy upgrade - but you can also go the ERR DC Commander route - same but no cruise.

I have a modern Lionel 0-4-0 with basic can motor - no flywheel - and I installed a Cruise Commander. It runs well, though it gets a bit coggy at low speeds. I tried it first with a plain DC Commander, and, honestly, for a switcher it would be better than the Cruise Commander. I may put it back. It was not coggy at low speeds. Note: this 0-4-0 probably has better gearing than the K-Line units.

I'm still not sure what locos you have - are these the scale EMD F-units, or the semi-scale Alco FA-2's? I did not think that the scale EMD's used the low-end horizontal motor trucks (the small FA's did).

Early on all their diesels had these really small motors laying in the trucks.  With an ABA you got six motors all controlled by one e unit.  Much better operation as the pitch went.  They stayed with their claims until they changed to vertical motors with flywheels like most other manufacturers.

Might make more sense to slide them back under the table.  These are probably out of set #1704 from 1997.

One problem with the truck mounted horizontal motors is that many of them exhibit excessive "cogging", and won't do well with back-EMF cruise control.   The plastic gears are also not confidence inspiring.

Here are some pics and FYI, I really don't have any plans on doing anything with them right now it was just fun to find something that I did not know I had. I do wish I had the instructions for them but I have not been able to find those anywhere. Thank you for the replies.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

And specifically why would this be?  I'm thinking about buying the WP version.

What's unusual about it that makes this adding command control so difficult?

Mike

They cog really badly at low rpm Mike,….these have some real cheese whizz motors,…..the poor meshing delrin gears don’t help much either……..even the sturdiest of cruise drivers ain’t gonna stop all the cogging those motors do,……I’d think you’d be in for a disappointing upgrade…..IMO,…I’ve fiddled with them years ago,….no bueno….

Pat

@D500 posted:

An ERR Cruise Commander would be an easy upgrade - but you can also go the ERR DC Commander route - same but no cruise.

I have a modern Lionel 0-4-0 with basic can motor - no flywheel - and I installed a Cruise Commander. It runs well, though it gets a bit coggy at low speeds. I tried it first with a plain DC Commander, and, honestly, for a switcher it would be better than the Cruise Commander. I may put it back. It was not coggy at low speeds. Note: this 0-4-0 probably has better gearing than the K-Line units.

Just a point of information -- ERR doesn't offer the DC Commander anymore, only the AC Commander. I think some speculated that ERR figured the DC Commander was redundant given that their Cruise Commander product did the same thing with added cruise, and no doubt was a vastly more popular product.

I have similar 1997-era K-Line Chesapeake and Ohio engines (K-25151) that I modified with ERR Cruise Commander. They work great, actually a bit smoother motor performance than running conventional. I was so pleased with the mod that I added ERR RailSounds to replace the awful horn in the B unit.

You can buy a trailing A unit for these separately. I collected all of these truck mounted motor  k-line aba sets. They’re ok for what they are.

@Bruce Brown posted:

I have similar 1997-era K-Line Chesapeake and Ohio engines (K-25151) that I modified with ERR Cruise Commander. They work great, actually a bit smoother motor performance than running conventional. I was so pleased with the mod that I added ERR RailSounds to replace the awful horn in the B unit.

I’d love to see them in action, …..the set I attempted was herky jerky anything below speed step 10, …..it wasn’t worth the effort given the whole idea of cruise is for the ability to cruise smoothly from 1 to 100,……not 90% worth….😉

Pat

I've had mixed results with the truck mounted horizontal motors, about 25%-30% of those engines had excessive cogging and didn't run well at all with the back-EMF cruise.  The ones that didn't have excessive cogging ran OK, but obviously they were still cheap, light engines with plastic gears, nothing overcomes that.

I have the Reading ABA set. This is an odd set, as it was available only through Boscovs, which is a Department store in eastern Pennsylvania. Boscovs had a somewhat unique relationship with K-Line, as a number of K-Line Reading items were only available through them. The items typically came out in time for Christmas. As I recall, the add on A unit was extremely hard to come by. Since these items were not sold directly to the train modeling market, these Reading items may have some collectability.

Chris

LVHR

I have the B&O ABA set, road #s 4560, 4561 and 4562. As indicated, these have the horizontal motors and even with TMCC they aren't the smoothest starting when you crack the throttle.

As of late they have started to get a tad growly. But they have seen a lot of run time.

I'd like to know where you find these trains under the layout you didn't know you had, lol!

I've been digging around under my layout for the last two days...nuthin', just empty boxes that I remember putting there.

@RickO posted:

I'd like to know where you find these trains under the layout you didn't know you had, lol!

I've been digging around under my layout for the last two days...nuthin', just empty boxes that I remember putting there.

And quite a few dust bunnies.

These K-lines will probably stay under the table or maybe get parked in the train shed on a siding since I also have the MTH premier ABA set in B&O that runs very well pulling my B&O passenger cars. But it was fun to find them and run them around the layout a few laps.

I was looking for something else tonight and happened across my RDG ABA set. Attached is a .pdf of the operating instructions. Note that K-Line made 3 different A unit configurations. Also note that the maximum number of units connected together is 3 (6 motors).

Hope this helps!

Chris

LVHR