Division Point RS brass models

It is a work in progress. The interest is growing. My 7 month old takes a lot of my time these days and I still need to finish the website; Jack moving from Florida to Colorado and my time taken its been neglected for the last 6 months.

Jack has visited with Jae At Ajin about them and he is ready to produce a pilot sample. We need to make enough reservations. Simple math- no reservation no RS's.

I reserved 3 - it helped but 300 pieces is a steep climb and high target. Dealers like yourself are the muscle behind a drive like this. Your but only one voice sadly; so am I. We need to hit the o scale shows that is for sure!

http://www.divisionpoint.com/s...re-10-february-2015/

I would interested in becoming a dealer.

 

Swasey's Hardware & Hobbies

140 E McKnight Way 11-14

Grass Valley, CA 95949

530-477-0892

Mark

       
       


Please get in touch with Jack! He would love to visit anyone. He is a terrific guy.


jack@divisionpoint.com

Erik: Thanks so much for the response! ! ! I thought Model Train (Ajin) was going to do the models. They did the OMI SD70ACes and the total was half that. They also had a minimum of 3 each per road name. If no one didn't order the N&W RS3 I was going to order 3 just to get them produced.

If you are the one doing the website I will be patient. I am sure it will be well organized.

Thanks again Erik.

Stephen

I'm coming into this DP RS3 topic late. Where can I get information on possible roadnames and/or unpainted? My modelling interest is a local shortline that has two old RS locomotives.

 

Thanks, Pat

Pat: Once the Division Point website gets organized and Projects are easy to find, until then I think reservation will put difficult to to come by and information on the project will be lacking. I myself could not find the O project on the site.

Stephen

On the DP website is a contact us heading, you might want to send an Email with your request. A while back he was talking about this project and looking for some response. If the project gets done it would be direct sales only to keep pricing in range.Also you can get on the newsletter mailing list.

Hey Guys!  Sorry to not get back to alot of you on the upcoming(?) RS-2/3 and the SD's I'd like to do in O scale./ P48.  As most know, the market is "owned by Sunset, MTH, and PSC when they get to it.  Not alot of room here for a new(OLD) player.  Some of you remember I started in O scale with the drop bottom gons and the RDC (try and find one of those!)  At any rate, it all comes down to numbers and risk.  Anything done by me at Division Point will pretty much be sizable deposit up front and around $2-3K out the door.  I will be selling direct only on O scale to try to keep the prices in this Universe, but I will do a "finders fee" for the dealers who are interested.  I hope to firm up the RS this year, and I have plans for the Prospector HW Train (5 cars) at around $1100 ea. car.  As we all know, prices keep climbing in Korea and around the world.....what can I say.  Anyway watch the website  www.divisionpoint.com for any "New" news.  Cheers  Jack

 

Hang around here for a while and you'll need some Jack and some 7 & 7's !!!

 

Jack, why no PRR RS's????

Jack: From a Marketing standpoint Division Point will not get the sale unless there is a direct website category for the O Scale RS 2/3 series with Road names and Order numbers. The news update provide none of that and are not the go to for pertinent information to place an order. YOU NEED A WEBSITE DEPARTMENT! ! !  Right now the website sucks and is totally unorganized. Sorry for being blunt, but that is the word on the streets.

Sunset has nothing to do with the brass market. Sunset does mass production models with minor road name details. They would not do the N&W RS 3 version, D&H and PRR High or low hoods, etc that can be done in brass.

Stephen - Darin my website guy and I are getting in there and fixing her up. Agree it's right ride.

Thanks for all the updates. My target models are actually RS3m rebuilds...seems pretty common among the few remaining surviving and running antiques (hows that for a niche) with an additional stack (2 stacks).  I'll watch out for whatever models become available.  Stock would be fine; an extra stack in the parts packet...AWESOME

Erik: I knew we could count on you !!!  This will give potential customers a easy access  for information and ordering item numbers. The only other suggestion is to list ALL road names as the HO RS project with a stipulation that if enough orders are not received for a particular O scale RS road that it will be canceled. I wish I know more about websites I would love to help. Stephen

Interested, but need clarity on production time frame.   Costs.  Deposit guidelines and features....     Dcc installed is a must at this point.  

Just a note:

Brass offers the ability to do phases of locomotive. The RS3 had 3 phases, which a mass produced model will not give you. If Sunset, mth or Atlas does a RS3 they will only do one mass produced phase and all other locomotives will be incorrect. Division Point will be able to give us the correct model phase for the road name.

Stephen

Did I read that correctly? $2000-3000 "out the door" for a single RS2/3?  A set of TWO Key (A+ B) Burlington E5's cost $3600 a few years back.   Good gosh, are these models going to have actual diesel engines and functioning traction motors ?? !!

High end brass today,museum level detailing,full lighting packages,electronics and I assume quality drive systems,hand built small and getting smaller custom built runs per prototype = priceing to match and a firm commitment [substantial deposit] from potential buyers.

That's a really good point Mark I agree with you. The models are getting way out there in prices. It's the builder; like us they have iPhones and new cars and fancy apartments in Korea these days. Back when labor was .45 an hour these models were $800.

It's not a hobby for the middle of lower middle class anymore. That includes me =-?

Prices for a lot of things have gone way up.  We were going to drop in at a favorite bakery the other day - parking for customers was only five bucks for the first hour.  Cinnamon rolls were still four bucks each.  That was after a five minute medical procedure that cost three grand.  

 

There are lots of folks who can afford these things. Even middle class folks can afford a $3500 brass RS switcher.  The problem is, as Jack pointed out, one can get a more or less satisfactory model for five hundred bucks, not counting the ever-present competition from the used market.  You have to locate all those discerning folks who need the extra accuracy that comes with seven-fold prices - and I suspect you already know them.

It is not only the digital items that they are buying, if you want to make some money from the South Koreans buy stocks from companies that make condoms. The stocks have risen the last few days since South Korea has now legalized Adultery.

The object of selling direct is to bring down the cost of brass imports. Dealers full markup is 40%. If OMI can import the recent SD70ACes At $1800 direct with a $500 deposit. Add cost increases the RS2/3 should not be that much more. If Jack only asked for 1/3 payment increments he is still not taking any risk. It is those that pay the deposit that takes the risk.

Key is importing locomotives at $1600 to $1800 right now to his customers. Why would the RS2/3 be any different?

Just saying - Stephen

I'd like to see a $2500 brass RS-3, just to look atErik's pictures, but I'm not sure it will happen. 

 

Jeff C

 

 

The models that Key is delivering this year were contracted for 2 years ago possibly from a different builder. DP is just suggesting this project now to guage the market,based on DPs estimated price range a run of 300 pieces appears to be unrealistic.JMO Key has had the benefit of loyal group of buyers for some time now even as production numbers and pricing continue to move in opposite directions they continue to sell out.

I hope DP can pull the RS-3 off.  I'm in for one for sure, and could easily do two, but will want undecorated as Missouri Pacific and Missouri-Illinois are not likely ever to be done as a factory paint jobs <g>.

I'd much rather have an RS-3 on the order of Lee Turner's.  Admittedly, it has been "tweaked some".  It's what can be done with a $150 plastic Weaver and effort.  Nobody comes close!  Definitely "high end"!

Harmon: There is NOT one correct RS3 made to date. You can tweak some all you want and it does make the "high end."

 

hibar: The last several productions of brass diesels have averaged $1600 to $1800 by different builders. I agree with you that expecting 300 pieces is out of the ballpark and unrealistic. The phrase "they continue to sell out" is absurd. Of course they sell out - THEY ARE BUILD TO ORDER!

Stephen

What is getting lost here is all of these are models, representations.  They are made of brass or plastic, not cast steel and sheet metal.  In that regard, all of them are "incorrect", some more than others. Not possible to get from "here" to "there".  Years ago I had sheep hauled into Illinois from Wyoming. As I recall, stock cars were not made of brass.  Mostly wood, like a lot of the rolling stock at that time.

$3000 for a single RS3 violates my "value proposition". I purchased a Glacier Park C&NW R1 4-6-0 about two years ago through a dealer.....it cost $1965. That's a locomotive and a tender. And it is absolutely the most perfectly detailed locomotive I have ever seen, including Stephenson valve gear inside the frame!!  A continuing worry across the globe is deflation, not inflation. I confess I have absolutely no working knowledge of the brass importing business, but a potential $3000 price just seem kind of out of whack. Initially I was interested in a Canadian National version, but......

 

Anyone know what Glacier Park's new 2-6-6-2T logging locomotives are going for?

Bill: You are terribly mistaken. I ought to know. I buy them. The Key AB FTs are $3200 for two units. RS3s do not come in AB, so that is one locomotive - $1600. The OMI SD70ACes were $1900 early buy with $300 down payment, $2495 after delivery if there were any left over. We are not talking steam prices so your comment does not apply. Therefore it is you that has not done your homework and talking out of thin air. Stephen

I don't see this model being delivered for less than $2200-$2500, at least not with the detail and finish that the importer is known for.

 

I'd be very interested to see Scott Mann take a project like this on, but I honestly don't see enough of a market. There is no reason Scott couldn't do different phases of this loco in ABS by using a basic shell and inserts(similar to the Athearn Genesis F unit)--it's just a matter of how many orders he could gather together.

 

Jeff C

Whether Sunset did the RS3 project or not, we have to admit that there is a demand for a brass model. Midwestern Model Work list the RS1/2/3 as one of the most requested models as with several request that DP has gotten for an RS2/3 also. I would not buy any plastic RS3 from any mass production manufacture as they would not build a correct N&W version. There is definitely a brass market, Sunset did the FT and Key still sold his brass FT sets. Yes the brass market is alive! Stephen

It would be interesting that O scale goes from a crappy Atlas/Weaver (not the original Weaver RS) to a museum quality DP model.

 

Three grand for a relatively small road switcher is steep, no doubt about it. Nothing in between.

 

AND as I was surfing back issues of The Keystone Modeler I saw a discussion on how DP was offering multiple versions of HO PRR RS2's and 3's with very specific details.  Not just antenna/no antenna but multiple versions. 

 

That might justify close to 3 grand if it were GPM/Key/Kohs quality.

 

Lots of people with big dreams can clamor for a model to be built, but will they part with $2500 when the bill is due? That's where the rubber meets the road. Too bad Santa Fe didn't order RS-3's and paint them red and silver--that's what made both of the FT projects happen referenced in your post.

 

Don't get me wrong...I would love to see these get made, including your N&W version.

 

Jeff C

The point is there are sufficient preorders to justify the run being produced, no importer in todays ever increasing builder prices is going to commit to haveing any model produced that they have at least 80% +/- presold[just a reasonable close estimate] the original Overland SD70ACe was 1900 + the original 300 deposit just to be clear.[Overland was so happy with that project they have never done one since] Yes there is a group of O scalers who want highly detailed rd specific models in brass, the question is there enough willing to support an importer. Key seems to have their group.

What bothers me a bit is importers who put out very casual "feelers" as part of some minor or cryptic announcement and then the projects just fade away.

 

In this aspect I admire Sunset/3rd Rail.  If something is announced they solicit feedback and then announce the "taking reservations" formally on their web site on an easy to find page with other active and prospective projects.  If it doesn't get enough reservations, they are cancelled.

 

They're in one place and up to date.  

 

Perhaps that's why they are successful at growing their business while others struggle.

 

...and me,I'm afraid...

 

Mark in Oregon

 

Thanks!  I needed a good laugh today.

 

Ok, you may be correct if you choose to define the hobby as exclusively limited to engines over $2k with correspondingly expensive rolling stock.

 

I suspect the majority do not.