Do multiple operators effect dcs response?

Talk to the NJ HiRailers. Send an E-mail to Bluelinec4 (Ben Fiorello) using the E-mail address in his profile.

Dave

This was a real old question. I worked with the National capital trackers at a greenburg show and they had problems. There was a group right next to them causing problems with there DCS remotes. Make sure all the remotes have the same ID's for the same engines. One remote calling for a non existant engine can bog the system down.

Remotes come and go and all the sudden they don't match and engine ID's get changed and all the sudden you have a mess.

Have your remotes been assigned ID numbers? You are in super mode correct? I would think with the upgrades since the early days this would not be a factor.

I would recomend that you run the "quickset" mode so the remote isn't looking for a reply every time.

As Barry noted, Ben takes care of the biggest layout around and probably would steer you in the right direction.

We have had good success running DCS and Legacy/TMCC on our modular layout. We have had occasional problems at shows, but have found some ways to prevent re-occurance.

The two major problems we have found are conflicting TIU ID's and conflicting Engine ID's.

The biggest thing is to change the TIU from 1 or some other number, and make sure that other DCS operators are using a different TIU. Since 1 is the default TIU number, it is the ID most likely to be in conflict.

One problem arises when someone changes a remotes TIU address. Once our neighbors changed one of their remotes to associate it with TIU 1. "Magically", all of our out remotes also were associated with TIU 1 and we started operating their engines. So, of course, I re-associated my remote with my original TIU 3, and they lost control of their trains. We got it all straightened out and parted friends, but I did loose a little more hair. So straighten it out before you start operating.

I have been told that if you tether the remote to the TIU when when you associate the remote with the TIU you can avoid the above problem, but I have not had a chance to test that out.

The other common problem can be having multiple engines with the same ID in the remote. This is especially likely to happen if your members bring their own remotes to a show.

Drop me an email, and we can get together for a cup of coffee.

quote:

Then later in the day with 5 more operators each with their own remotes he kept complaining of much delayed or no response to commands. Such as hitting direction to get the train to stop. So when there are multiple trains and operators does the systems response time slow down? Does it get overloaded?

Do the 5 operators have the layouts tiu added to their remote and each one set to super mode? The remote must be in range of the tiu zone the train is operating in.Where are your tiu located?
Engine /tiu association shouldn't be a factor in super mode but for good house keeping, we add all our engines to tiu #1. (If creating a lash-up, the member engines are associated with the same tiu).

Personally I think software version 4.2 for super mode runners is the worse version so far and is a step backwards .

We have built a new layout (4 tiu in super) and have not yet had an open house with multiple operators with 4.2, so I can't duplicate your finding. I do know of the scrolling issues which may lead one to believe they had a poor track signal or remote tiu range problem. Try Jamie's suggestion of putting the remote in "speed mode", maybe that will help a bit.

Did you have the same problems with version 3.1? I know we didn't and have had as many a 5 operators with dcs and a couple with cab-1s . Well, there's always someone who has to try the E-STOP. Good luck.

With 9 proto2 remotes (plus 2 CAB1s and 2 CAB2s) it can be a bit tricky to run more than 30 trains simultaneously; however, I have not had any issues with responsiveness unless an engine in one handheld as the same ID as an engine in another handheld. I utilize 4 TIUs with all in normal (not supermode). Additionally when running in this manner and using MUs or double and triple headers, only the last "lashup" is retained within the TIU and you do not have one per channel (I have one handheld per channel (per loop)). If you use the "ALL" command (if you do not reselect the engines) you can effect engines not in handheld 2 using handheld 2. MTH is aware of this limitation.

Winrose,
You said the magic words sir, all in normal not super mode! Keep your fingers away from the All command button.
PCRR/Dave

I don't understand the problem. When I have "Run Beer, Drink Trains" sessions, we operate 3 or 4 MTH DCS hand helds, 1 or 2 Legacy Cab-2s, and 1 or 2 TMCC Cab-1s, all at the same time. Plus, as a member of the Independent Hi-Railer, Mid-West Division (74 feet buy 42 feet layout with a three track main line plus a staging yard and steam locomotive terminal), we have little to no DCS issues on the main line (at least 4 TIUs in super mode). My home layout has two TIUs in super mode.

quote:

Originally posted by Pine Creek Railroad:
Winrose,
You said the magic words sir, all in normal not super mode! Keep your fingers away from the All command button.
PCRR/Dave

I use the "all" command on all but 6 of my 15 loops every time. I can not use supermode because I start each loop separately and get them running simultaneously before I switch to another loop and the "ALL" command to start the consists on that loop simultaneously. I could never start all 33 trains simultaneously (even if I did not have 6 loops with Legacy engines - Lionel does not have a way around the "all" command if you have MUs).

 

That's great.  Wish we could say the same.  Where are your TIU's on the large club layout located?  Are they mounted Horizontal or Vertical?  Ours are currently vertical in the middle of the layout, at approximately 6' high.  The closest we are to the Tiu's are about 10' and the furthest distance would be about 30 feet.  The issue we have is what operators say is an issue with the remotes communicating with the TIU. They tell me if they hold the remote up above their heads they can communicate with their engines.  For example they may try something as simple as blow the horn or hit direction to stop the train to avoid a crash.  They hit direction and nothing happens.  They hold the remote above there head, hit direction and the train stops. I need to and want to methodically test this out.  1st by direct tethering a remote to the tiu to see if the issue goes away. 

 

They get very frustrated and say things like maybe if I put one hand in my back pocket, stand on 1 foot and point east it will work. They actually say some more colorful things involving other body parts that I won't repeat here. My background is as an electronics and computer tech. I catch all the complaints and questions.  I keep a cooler head and try to use the scientific method to T/S these issues instead of cursing and jumping to conclusions.

 

Is it true when 1 remote is tethered directly then no other remotes can communicate with the TIU?

 

Is there a check list for T/S communication issues with DCS?

 

We are closed for the month of February in order to do some maintenance work.  When we are open to the public our main goal for those 5 hours is to have trains running with as few issues as possible in order to show our hobby in a good light and attract new members to MRR.  We would also like to become a demonstration layout for MTH and perhaps a training layout.  We are now up to 9 remotes, though in general there are usually 5-6 online at once, all DCS.

 

the ceiling above our layout contains many older 2 bulb 4' fluorescent fixtures. We did find we had less issues when we turned those off.  We are located in a storefront in a mall.

 

We have thought about adding some sort of extension to the antennas in the TIU's.  Has anyone done this?  If need we could run a wire antenna the whole length of the layout at ceiling height and tap into that.

 

Barry I did write to the email address for the gentleman from NJHR's about a week ago but didn't get a reply. I'd love to talk to him or any other person with a large layout using Super TIU configuration.  Thanks, Dave  NSHR's

Dave, 

Is it true when 1 remote is tethered directly then no other remotes can communicate with the TIU?

Yes, that's correct.

Is there a check list for T/S communication issues with DCS? 

The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition, pages 147-175 has an extensive troubleshooting section. However, the problem your operators are possibly having is that, while the TIUs are above the layout, where they hold normally their remotes the layout may be in the line of sight and obstructing the DCS radio signal.

We have thought about adding some sort of extension to the antennas in the TIU's.  Has anyone done this?

On page 157 is a relatively simple TIU modification that may help your group. It involves poking the TIU's antenna through the top of the TIU's case. This has worked very well to improve DCS signal strength on my layout as well as the layouts of others.

 

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!