Wow, don't you realize what is going on? Go ahead sue the TCAED and put them in such a financial condition that York may be discontinued, that would be great for all the members.
I have gone to every York since 1984 and missing 2 or more because 2021 is not written in stone yet so your saying I should get a refund because there was no York!! Give me a break, your acting like a child.
Dave
@david1 posted:Give me a break, your acting like a child.
Well... trains are supposed to bring out the kid in us. 😘
...and, I have to assume you believe their is some validity in the comments made on the issue. The fact you believe TCAED could be sued and put in a financial condition (your words) as a result would indicate an injustice was made. Glad you are on board with that idea.
Guilty as charged!
Yes I originally joined TCA to attend York, but I'm my view is emerging... Maybe make a TCA convention some day.
Did go to the TCA Toy Train Museum, and it saved me a few $$ at Choo Choo Barn?
Jim
To the original question, yes, I joined for the sole purpose of going to York. I let it lapse in the years I can’t go and renew it when I can.
@Dave45681 posted:The York Meet admission is a totally separate item from the TCA National dues, whether you like what the TCA National dues deliver for you (outside of being your pathway to being able to purchase York meet admission as a Member) or not.
According to the National TCA, the number one benefit to membership is train meets. So I have to assume all train meets around the country have been cancelled. That means the number one reason for joining the TCA could not be delivered and should be credited somehow.
Yes... I have my tickets and have to assume they will be valid in April even though my membership expires in March. At least I certainly hope so.
But what about the next meet I should have been entitled to attend as a result of membership? Shouldn't I be permitted to buy tickets for that event as a result of my paid in full membership?
@Ron045 posted:Well... trains are supposed to bring out the kid in us. 😘
...and, I have to assume you believe their is some validity in the comments made on the issue. The fact you believe TCAED could be sued and put in a financial condition (your words) as a result would indicate an injustice was made. Glad you are on board with that idea.
Don't put words in my mouth, I don't think like you on this subject and the only thing you did was prove my point, and yes you are a child.
Dave
@Ron045 posted:Just like everything else in life. I paid for something. I expect to receive what I paid for. If I can't receive what I paid for it reasonable to expect some restitution of some sort.
If someone took your money and gave you nothing in return... you'd be ok with that?
TCA is a non-profit, volunteer organization. It provides many benefits in addition to the York meet (which isn't a TCA function, BTW).
Even without the ability to attend York this year, TCA has not taken my money and gave me nothing in return. No restitution is appropriate or expected.
Yes, I'm absolutely OK with that.
Yes
The TCA is not a retailer nor provider of services, as pointed out. Membership is not a contract. You have no legal rights to restitution if train meets cannot be held due to a public health emergency. Of course, you are free to discontinue membership. As pointed out TCA provides lots of benefits to many of us, and I am happy to support the organization despite only having gone to York a few times in my 26 years of membership.
Hot debate going on here. Let me say that I'm expecting my Spring 2029 name tag to be valid at the next meet, whenever that takes place. This assumes the ED did not have to forfeit any $ to the fairgrounds. If they did, I'll rip the tag up now.
@Joe Hohmann posted:Hot debate going on here.
Very true Joe. But I heard last night on TV that people can have differences and vigorous debate and still be friends at the end of the day.
And after all, some have said above TCA for them is about friendship.😉
Have fun.
Ron
@Joe Hohmann posted:Hot debate going on here. Let me say that I'm expecting my Spring 2029 name tag to be valid at the next meet, whenever that takes place. This assumes the ED did not have to forfeit any $ to the fairgrounds. If they did, I'll rip the tag up now.
Spring 2029?
I got an email from the TCA recently that said if I registered for either 2020 York Meet (April or October-which I did for April) my registration would be good for the April 2021 York Meet. I don't have to do anything but show up with the registration card.
@Ron045 posted:
Yes... I have my tickets and have to assume they will be valid in April even though my membership expires in March. At least I certainly hope so.
Hey guys I tried looking for that email I thought the TCA sent me and then I remembered that it wasn't in an email. It was from Clem's primer. Here is a screen shot.
@Joe Hohmann posted:Hot debate going on here. Let me say that I'm expecting my Spring 2029 name tag to be valid at the next meet, whenever that takes place. This assumes the ED did not have to forfeit any $ to the fairgrounds. If they did, I'll rip the tag up now.
Agreed. If ED loses money due to the cancellations, I'll gladly pony up the additional $20.
I'm guessing that one will be able to enter the next York meet using a name tag from the April 2020 meet even if their membership has lapsed; however, doing so would be neither moral nor ethical. Attendance with a membership badge implies that one is subject to the TCA bylaws with regard to trading - IANAL, but IMO a non-member attending using a member badge is committing fraud. Don't be "that guy".
+1 on not worrying about the money from April 2020 at this point. As a table holder, I never did receive my badge (they send them out later than members without tables, so they might have just not sent out some table holder badges, I never inquired since everything got cancelled).
I'll call to find out sometime between now and April. I'm more interested in getting my same table location(assuming any potential new organization for distancing does not reduce tables/aisles to where that is impossible) than worried about the money. I'll pay for April 2021. Hopefully the order of events in April 2020 (York Fairgrounds effectively cancelling for the TCA by halting events) got the TCA out of any monetary penalties that could have arisen had they cancelled on their own before the Fairgrounds and State of PA made announcements that forced the issue.
-Dave
Mallard4468, I totally agree. My membership runs out on Dec. 31. If I didn’t renew I would not attend York next year but I do plan to renew later on this month.
I am not a TCA member up until this point, not much of a joiner in general, but from my outsider's perspective I see a couple of things here that if I was one of those running the TCA I would be concerned about. The first is that many have said outside York, there wasn't much to the membership that interested them, that they aren't into pre war and post war and the like. That makes sense that the TCA first and foremost was a collectors group, but maybe kind of like OGRR changed from being 2 rail scale to primarily 3 rail, they need to change focus and embrace other things (yes, I realize there is LOTS and other operation focused groups....). The museum is great, the library is great, but maybe the real problem is York overshadows everything else because that is all most people see of value...not criticizing the leadership, running something like the TCA is about the most thankless task I can think of, outside of doing a church newsletter.
For those who see York as the only benefit (which I can understand), given how many people have said York is what it is pretty much about, what happens if people leave TCA, disgruntled that York didn't happen? I don't know all the ins and outs of how the TCA or York is set up, but I suspect it is likely if the national TCA starts hemorrhaging members, York may not happen, not enough volunteers to man it, financial support they give, etc. I don't know how TCA national is vis a vis york, but in most of the groups I have belonged to (the few that I do), usually the local group hosting events, especially big ones like a national convention which York sort of is, get money that comes from dues across the organization (I know this from a car club I belonged to)....so in a sense, as a York attendee you get that benefit out of it, whereas the person who can't/doesn't want to go to York , doesn't use that benefit, is helping subsidize those who do.
The point is that York is one of many benefits of belonging to TCA, it isn't TCA, and by withdrawing membership because York isn't there could end up meaning it doesn't happen in the future, either, because National may not be able to do their share with York, whatever that is (if York on the other hand is totally independent of national, the people running it don't get anything from national dues, just their share of local dues, then this wouldn't be true, though if national membership declines fewer people would go to York, and it would be a death spiral, others seeing less people there, would pull out of TCA saying York wasn't worth it......or the show would *gasp* become a totally open show, with nothing special for members.
Again, I don't have an iron in the fire with this, I don't belong to TCA because with where I am right now, I likely wouldn't get any benefit out of it, I don't go to York (never seem to be able to get the time to go), not really a collector and not much for belonging to a local TCA group...but even if TCA to you means York, then realize staying a member can mean future shows happening because it keeps TCA itself afloat. I have had tickets to performances at a local performing arts center (a non profit) cancelled because of Covid, and rather than get a refund I turned my tickets into a donation so they could keep the place limping along until better times returned.
Yes....
BIGKID, You don't go to York, BIG MISTAKE if you are a train collector or operator. I don't know how you can judge YORK if you have never been there.
I joined for York, stayed for the friends
I joined the Mid-West Tool Collectors just to buy user grade wood working hand tools but discovered there was so much more. I suspect TCA will be the same. I've been to York as a guest of a member, my brother. Wow. It was like toy train heaven. Being at the meeting under the bleachers when Rich announced his retirement was something special. Almost all of my toy train experience has been in my own home, so the connection with other people made the hobby more "real" to me. I have not joined national yet but the local chapter welcomed me anyway. Only got to go to one meeting before Covid put it all on hold. Even though I'm not interested in collecting the old stuff, the presentations still held my interest and I'll be back as soon a Covid is over. (The second presentation at my first meeting was on the first train Lionel sold after WWII and its variations and theories about production. I'm not going to buy one but it was fun to learn about and the next time I see one I'll appreciate it.) A few other guys have said it. Came for the trains and stayed for the people.
-Nathan Muenks
Back in the early 80s, when I was a single medical resident in Baltimore getting back into trains after a hiatus for school, I heard people at shows talking about the TCA and York. Yes, I joined in 83 to go to York (less than an hour from where I lived in Baltimore County)....but I have gotten so much more. Let me explain (sorry if I ramble).
I moved to Philly in 83 and stayed till mid 85. Philly was the hub of the very active Atlantic Division. I joined and got involved in their portable layout, where I met like-minded train enthusiasts, including a Mr Nick Ladd, who used to fascinate me with his knowledge of the industry.
In 1985, I moved to Richmond and joined a nephrology practice. I had gotten married and had a young family. I was back in the Eastern Division. The TCA provided me the Quarterly and access to York twice a year.....I am fortunate to have only missed twice since April 83.....
Then comes the internet and this wonderful Forum. I had already met Myron and Fred many times at York in the Yellow Hall......I feel very fortunate to have joined the Forum in August 2020....I was a "lone wolf" hobbiest who found participation easy to fit into my schedule. Then it happened....many of us realized we knew each other when we spoke about our York experiences. We started meeting at York ........and the York Trip has become a social event as well as a buying event....My TCA membership coupled with this Forum has given me good friends all over the country......
Yes, I originally joined to go to York, but I have received SO MUCH MORE......
Peter
I joined the TCA a "non Profit" to further my interest and experience with Toy Trains with the NETCA and Northern New England Divisions. I've meet a few old timers that Sponsored me and have helped along in the hobby. I went to York a few years ago and took the whole family/kids we had a blast in the Lancaster area too. That said I might donate a larger sum of money to keep the TCA organization alive for future generations to enjoy which means - my donation wold be worth much more than a TCA ED York Show ticket. I'm not wealthy financially but wealthy through the TCA friends I've meet. I can't imagine putting a cash 💵 number on the time (time is money) they helped me, and the ensuing friendships I've developed.
@Seacoast posted:I joined the TCA a "non Profit" to further my interest and experience with Toy Trains with the NETCA and Northern New England Divisions. I've meet a few old timers that Sponsored me and have helped along in the hobby. I went to York a few years ago and took the whole family/kids we had a blast in the Lancaster area too. That said I might donate a larger sum of money to keep the TCA organization alive for future generations to enjoy which means - my donation wold be worth much more than a TCA ED York Show ticket. I'm not wealthy financially but wealthy through the TCA friends I've meet. I can't imagine putting a cash 💵 number on the time (time is money) they helped me, and the ensuing friendships I've developed.
Well put!
When there was a bunch of griping years ago when the annual dues went from $35 to $50 and some people moaned/groaned, etc and dropped out, I decided to try to help offest that "loss" a bit. When I renew each year, I also include an additional donation equivalent to a couple of memberships for those people who dropped out over the $15 a year. It's not a huge amount of money, but I figure it hopefully helps the organization I've gained so much from out a little bit.
-Dave
@eddie g posted:BIGKID, You don't go to York, BIG MISTAKE if you are a train collector or operator. I don't know how you can judge YORK if you have never been there.
I don't know where you got the idea I was knocking York, all I said about York personally is I have never gone because I didn't have the time. I also said I personally didn't belong to TCA because where I am with trains didn't see a reason to belong (to TCA), I am not a collector and not sure if I would go to local events if a member, that's all, not knocking it, far from it, just giving my mindset. I gave comments as an outsider that if most people see York as the reason for belonging to TCA then it may be wise for TCA leadership to figure out how to make it more than being about York to people and conversely for those who belong because of York that if they drop their membership to TCA it could mean York being pulled, if my assumptions are correct, that's all. I think both TCA and York are great things, just for where I have been and am for me personally they haven't been part of my train experience, that's all (and keep in mind I am not much of a joiner as a whole, it is mostly about me).
@rattler21 posted:Does TCA have standards or guidelines for vendors at York? If complaints are received about specific vendors are those vendors disciplined in any way? john
Vendors (including dealers) must be TCA members, so the regular TCA standards and trading rules apply. AFAIK, the complaint process is the same as for any other member. ED requires tableholders to have trains on their table until 2pm Saturday. By rule, the penalty is to be barred from having a table at the next meet; I don't know how rigorously that rule is enforced, since it's a ghost town by noon on Saturday anyway.
I joined TCA so I could go to York, as I had heard so much about it here in the forums. I had been to the museum several times before I joined, so it was nice to walk in as a member. At some point, I got a letter from the Atlantic Division, so I joined that as well. I try to attend all of the division shows, but never screwed up the courage to attend the social events.
I’ll admit I don’t get as much out of membership as I should, but that is my own danged fault. I’m pretty much a social cripple, so walking up and starting a conversation is beyond my skill set.
York
Joined in 1992 so I could go to York. My main focus the past few years there has been a social event. I have my April 2019 badge for April 2020 which may not happen but we will see...
Pretty much joined to attend York meets. My membership has since lapsed as the trips back east were too costly. Things might change after I retire -- you never know.
Mine was a hard decision at renewal time. I thought about past York Shows and our annual trip to Gettysburg. I was lucky to have $52 bucks burning a hole in my pocket to renew Theresa and I. This week with the great news about the vaccine and hopes for a breakaway spring, it makes me Chomping at the bit. I joined TCA to attend, but reading about legends in our hobby passing and the news about Mike closing business, makes me more eager for York 21 in the fall. I can say that I now renew to support the brother and sisterhood that reside here. Let’s say hi at the breakfast and dinner.
I joined to meet Ron Hollander in the Yellow Hall. Then I met a few thousand other guys. Many have become life-long friends. I used to put away $500 plus expenses (gas, tolls, hotel, chow) to spend at each York meet. The cost of membership in TCA is minuscule compared to the total cost of the best two weekends I enjoy every year.
Basically yes, however once I started to attend York I realized how important the association is for keeping our love for toy trains alive and well. Modern trains certainly have benefited as well. I will always remain a member.
For the first time since I joined I am examining the efficacy of remaining a TCA member. I originally joined for the privilege of attending YORK. Also, I paid my entry fee for YORK the first October it was closed due to Covid - never could reuse that pass, and never received compensation for it. A donation is one thing, but just taking my money is another.
I joined not so much for the opportunity to attend shows, but to connect with fellow collectors and expand my knowledge of vintage trains and accessories — something I look forward to in each new issue of The Quarterly. I’ve joined (and left) other clubs over the years, but plan to keep my TCA membership active indefinitely.
@Michael Hokkanen posted:For the first time since I joined I am examining the efficacy of remaining a TCA member. I originally joined for the privilege of attending YORK. Also, I paid my entry fee for YORK the first October it was closed due to Covid - never could reuse that pass, and never received compensation for it. A donation is one thing, but just taking my money is another.
I thought that they offered a refund last year and you had to contact them if you wanted it.
@Michael Hokkanen posted:For the first time since I joined I am examining the efficacy of remaining a TCA member. I originally joined for the privilege of attending YORK. Also, I paid my entry fee for YORK the first October it was closed due to Covid - never could reuse that pass, and never received compensation for it. A donation is one thing, but just taking my money is another.
As far as I know they honored the passes from cancelled prior shows, when I was there this fall (my first), there were people with 2020 passes getting in as well as April 2021. Did you try contacting the EDTCA people and ask about a refund, if you decided you wouldn't use it again?
@Michael Hokkanen posted:For the first time since I joined I am examining the efficacy of remaining a TCA member. I originally joined for the privilege of attending YORK. Also, I paid my entry fee for YORK the first October it was closed due to Covid - never could reuse that pass, and never received compensation for it. A donation is one thing, but just taking my money is another.
I used my 2020 Spring pass at the last York, no problem at all. You could have most certainly reused the pass for the next York show that didn't fall victim to COVID.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I used my 2020 Spring pass at the last York, no problem at all. You could have most certainly reused the pass for the next York show that didn't fall victim to COVID.
They honored my 2020 Spring pass too. No issues at all getting into any of the buildings.
I did finally join TCA to be able to go to York and other meets, and it was well worth it. Even if I don't go to meets, having the ability is nice and honestly the way I see it, if my membership helps keep the museum going and the library and keeps the organization going, even if I get no direct benefit from it (ie going to shows, buying stuff off the TCA website [which to me is still a mystery, plus I am not a collector]) I am all for it (and yes, I did donate more, I am fortunate I can be generous). If for some reason I couldn't go to York , had to bail, that 16 bucks to me meant that EDTCA could live to put on another York *shrug* (and please, this is not a criticism of anyone, this just is how I view things).
So do I still consider it worth it? Yep, because hopefully I am helping support a group I think has a really important purpose, like being a supporting member here. I enjoy reading the quarterly, and will occasionally browse the website, so I do get things out of it, I just don't see it as being entirely transactional.
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