Do You Need A Knowledge Of Railroad History To Enjoy The O-Gauge Hobby?

I don't know the first thing about real trains, and I grew up in the golden age of steel mills in McKeesport, which means growing up surrounded by trains.  But yet I never took an interest in them.

 

My interest in 'O' comes from my Dad starting the train/Christmas tradition in our family.  The sentiment maintains my interest.

 

Walt

I agree, I enjoy the hobby, but know very little about RR history.

 

Jeff Davis

I do not understand how the subjects can be separated. I do not get being fascinated with model (anythings) and not be interested in the real (anythings), even if the model

thing came first.

 

I also do not understand some of the rail "historians" and rabid railfans, that I know, who have absolutely no interest in the models, even if an accurate model (any scale) of their favorite real loco/car is available at a reasonable price. Not for a layout, mind you, but just a nice 3-D mantlepiece display. Like a photo - just a representation.

 

I don't get it; either of them. I liked my PW 2055 and rolling stock because it looked

REAL to my pre-pubescent eyes. It had no face, and was not painted bright colors.

It all looked like serious machinery.

 

Plus, I had a real layout. That helps.

 

 

 

This describes me.   I don't know, nor care much about real trains.  I mean, I like watching them on the rare occasion I encounter one, but that's about it.

I couldn't tell you a Berkshire from a Mikado; An F3 from an F7.  (I do know the FT's have "weird" noses since they don't look like my original 2383 F3 my dad got me in '67  )

 

 

 

I enjoy O gauge (and other scales) trains because they are fun to play with.

 

I've learned some about railroading from my involvement with O-Gauge, but other than that,  real life trains are not a part of my life.

 

I do know basic RR history as far as western expansion, mining, and so forth.   I just don't get into the minutiae of how many grab irons, or what trucks a company used on its diesels, etc., etc.   Yes, I own and run Legacy scale, and 027/O traditional as well.

 

 

For me that's an easy answer.   Model trains as always been about building something mechanical that runs when you're done.   Of course as a kid I liked real trains, built I did not grow up around them.

It's the same reason I liked Erector Sets, Heathkit sets, and so forth.  I learned a lot about tools, mechanics, and electricity from the various things in my youth that have served me well.

 

For me, the fun in the hobby is designing and building layouts.  I am not "modelling" any specific area or time frame.   I like mechanical and technical things, and trains just happen to fit the bill since we had that first 5x9 layout my dad setup Christmas morning in 1966.

 

This is also why you will see on my layout a Lionel Phantom pulling a coal freight, or a new Cab Forward in Daylight pulling a bunch of Looney Tune cars and a Giraffe Car around the loops.  I care not what the real railroads did.  This is my world and I'm in charge

 

Edit to add:

 

To be clear, I fully appreciate those who are immersed in railroads and railroad history, and create historically accurate layouts and trains reflecting such. The craftsmanship is simply outstanding.  

 

 

 

 

No, I do not believe you need to know railroad history to enjoy O gauge trains. Don't even need to know O gauge history either! One can run toy trains all day, every day without such knowledge.

 

That said, I do believe the knowledge of real train history and toy/model train history does enhance the O gauge experience. Knowledge of real trains and their history goes hand in hand with SCALE model railroading though. Can't have accurate models if you don't know the prototype.

Not necessary to enjoy the hooby, but you may enjoy the hobby more as you gain knowledge of the real railroads...or just your favorite railroad.  If you have a favorite road, join its historical society and you can have access to some great info and photographs.

No. I liked trains when I was four years old and new nothing about any history.

To enjoy O gauge, standard gauge, or even "model" railroading, you don't need any prior railroad knowledge. If you enjoy watching trains run around or building a miniature world to your liking it doesn't matter. If your tastes move toward making a more accurate miniature world of something that actually exists/existed, then the railroad history and research comes into play.

 

One thing I've found is that the more I learned, the more I wanted to learn more.

It may be the other way around. Does one need to know about toy train history to have an interest in real trains? My initial attraction to trains was as a child. It was a visual and audible experience in real time. Some history was learned over the years because of the toy trains, but it was always the first hand experience. Besides, there's no time for real train history when we have all the toy train history to learn... Is that a repro part? When did they start making that in China? Did Richard Kughn really save the hobby? etc etc etc

It certainly helps! 

 

"The more you know...."

No, but it helps.

To enjoy model trains? Nope, you only need to know how a train sits on the track, to make the model work.

To make a decent layout? Yeah, you really should at the very least have some kinds of understanding how trains and railroads operate if you're looking to make a decent layout.

I guess the question is rooted on how realistic you wanna go with the operation of your models. Anyone looking to make a good layout must have some knowledge about RRs in general.

All that said, I know plenty model RR types who have no interest in real trains at all. I find that odd to me as I think of model trains simply as an extension of my interest in 1:1 scale trains, but it's a big world out there.

Ottumwa Iowa was know as the town of bridges, since it sits on both sides of the Des Moines river. That's where I was born.

 

So, researching the rail history gives me a lot of good ideas about what to include on a layout. Also I get an idea of what trains I might see coming through the area.

 

Not a requirement for playing with trains, but research makes it interesting.

Nope

Once again, Walt, I see we have much in common. And I like that.

FrankM.

No. It enhances the hobby and mileage may vary depending on if you are focused on accuracy or allow some artistic freedom to seep in with toy trains.

In the beginning at the age of four, my Marx CV had no historical pedigree.as the whirling rods did not require some lengthy explanation. I was mesmerized.

At age 64, I can appreciate history and not require it is an absolute in whatever I run as a toy. If I did, I could probably drive myself to distraction. Have a nervous tick about it. 

 

Toy trains and Lionel in particular reminds me of family trips we took to New York, Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston in the late 50s when I was a boy. I have very good knowledge of street railways, both historical and technical, but my knowledge of railways is casual. Although my knowledge is casual I have read railroad magazines most of my life, so its not completely lacking.

In 1789, Englishman, William Jessup designed the first wagons with flanged wheels.

 

If it fits on your tracks and has flanged wheels you can run it and enjoy it.

 

Prototype railroads and historical research is lots of fun on nights when you can't work on your railroad. It will give you inspiration to make a more realistic railroad if that's what you want to do.

 

Sticking to one railroad is also fun. I live in New Jersey and expect to see Norfolk Southern and CSX.   Driving past Newark Airport I saw  Union Pacific engines two weeks ago.  

 

Don't go crazy. Enjoy the hobby. It's your railroad.

Pre-war, Sargent Shultz once owned the largest toy company in Germany, he knew nothing. While interesting, its not necessary for enjoyment....for most

 

 I do think its relevance in our history is overlooked in schools considering it was the beginning of faster mobility for us, and that helped "shape" us. The largest focus was in two other classes("blue&grey" & "20s & 30s") where it was an occasional factor in the social/political aspects of those periods. Any scientific aspects are almost totally ignored, except as examples of mechanical principle, not as a whole including developments overtime. That is almost solely reserved for the steerable internal combustion vehicle. 

 

I learned more as a kid, listening, and asking about Lionels vs prototypes on Gramps layout, then anywhere else. Except maybe here on OGRF.

 

 

 

 

Surprisingly, I see a lot of 'No" votes here, and I find that fascinating.   Without any sense of history or importance, model trains are just outdated toys rolling around on a track.  My kids have toys that are both far cheaper and far more sophisticated than anything the O-Gauge market can supply.  The only thing that draws them in is a sesne of reality and history - when they SEE a real train and UNDERSTAND how it works and what it is doing, or when they hear stories of their ancestors working on the railroads and manning/maintaining these beasts and beasts past.   Most kids don't see trains these days - not with any regularity.  They might catch a news story here or there but most of those are negative.  Even fewer actually ride them;  even light rail is rare save for major metropolitan areas.  So without history/education/exposure, exactly how are we supposed to attract the next generation.  

 

Most of us on this forum had some sort of exposure to trains.  Even if we didn't ride them or have relatives in the industry, we had some sort of connection.  They bright goods to market, they serviced the industry that we did have.  There was at least a fundamental understanding regarding the nature of trains and their importance.  The scary thing is that I might be the last of this generation - my uncles and grandfathers worked for the railroads, and others worked in rail-served industries (steel mills, coal mines, etc.).  I was born in the late 60's - I consider the 70's/80's the "lean years" of railroading.  Without my connection to the past, growing up in the suburbs, I'd probably have little to no interest in the hobby at all.  

 

Perhaps it is different in other countries where rail travel is more common (and modern).  In the U.S. I feel it is imperative to impart some degree of knowledge/history/education to the younger generation in order to foster continued interest.  Otherwise, it's just "dad's/grandpa's dumb old electric toys" running around in a circle.  

Gentlemen,

    I know many many people from my era, who had no interest in real trains and had real nice O gauge train layouts every Christmas. 

It does help however on a longevity basis.

PCRR/Dave

This is a very interesting thread, different strokes for different folks.

 

Brent

Originally posted by the stumper:

Without any sense of history or importance, model trains are just outdated toys rolling around on a track.

 

 

That seems a one sided opinion based only on your personal love for scale.

 Last I checked tin toys were an important part of the O gauge experience too.

Some have tin and/or scale on a shelf, never to be ran, but enjoy them.

 Our dog Bruno (1of3) has no understanding of anything other than the fact the movement interests him. He whines for them to be ran when he is bored, so I think he enjoys them.(no joke).

 

 

I enjoyed operating my trains long before I really knew anything about railroad history so I would have to believe it isn't really necessary to enjoy model and toy trains.  That being said I will have to say that over the years I have learned a good deal about railroad history and the knowledge that I have gained has certainly enhanced my enjoyment of the world's greatest hobby.  In short, like others have said its not necessary but it can help. 

Not really,  I have never let my lack of knowledge get in the way of things

 

Perhaps there would more YES votes if the question were asked on one of the scale forums instead of the O-27 and traditional toy train forum. 

 

I've been a history nut as long as I have liked trains. I am just interested in old stuff. Old trains, cars, boats, electric trains, TV shows....  

 

 

It's my opinion based on raising 3 8 year old boys and interacting with dozens of their friends.   I have no love for scale - 80% of my collection is semi scale.  That doesn't matter much at all IMO.   It's the connection that counts - I don't care where it comes from or how you get it; there has to be a hook.   It's tough out there with young kids - between sports, video games, and an assortment of other sophisticated electronic toys, the trains themselves just don't make much of an impact on them anymore.  Sure, their "neat" and fun to watch and maybe even run for a half hour or so, but the quad-copter/drone that they can fly over the house and take pictures with is far more intriguing to the attention span of your average child.   There's no "genetic disposition" for liking trains, or for that matter, almost anything else.  At some point a connection is made, either consciously or subconsciously.  It happened for me a long time ago;  I've continued to fuel it on my own, but there was a spark, which lead to interest, and that's what started the wheels turning.  They've been turning ever since.  

 

My dog like to lick himself and kill groundhogs.  He'll also chase the occasional RC car, but I'm guessing that's not the new market Lionel and MTH are looking for 

The first time (1984) I had the opportunity to remove an ACTUAL smoke box front from Ex-SOU RY #722, a 2-8-0 concolidation at TVRM, reminded me of replacing the smoke box front on my 1950 Lionel #773, but without the crane!  

 

It certainly is NOT necessary to actually run 1:1 steam or first generation Alco RS-1's as I have done, but it does give you MORE appreciation of the models we cherish! 

I don't think you need to have a pre-existing knowledge of RR history or even develop an interest in it to enjoy model trains. How the bug bites you in the first place might be from digging out your Dad's trains from 30+ years ago, or just buying a starter set because you think it might be a fun hobby to take up. I happen to enjoy the history of the Milwaukee Road because it was my hometown RR, but I would still enjoy my trains regardless of where I lived or how much or how little I knew about various RRs. I didn't know much about the Santa Fe when I got my Warbonnet F-3 passenger set when I was a kid, I just thought it looked sharp.

No, especially for young children.  As for adults, forumites operate unit train consists of distilled spirits, beer, milk, giraffes, etc.  The Polar Express fans are everywhere.

 

 

 

 

I find it almost unbelievable how so many folks are so happy not knowing anything about railroads.

The era I grew up in and went to school we were taught all about the importance of railroads. We were taught how much the railroads helped the war effort and made our country what it is today. The teachers of this era were required to teach this subject. I own a teachers book of lesson plans that they were required to have. They were provided to the nations schools by, The US Department of Transportation.

Even though we do not admit it, our trans provide a history lesson to each of us. Maybe one that we do not understand, however, it's still there.

 

"Pappy" 

Do You need to learn about it to enjoy it? Of course not. It stands pretty well on its own right now. But building a layout should absolutely encapsulate a history in one form or another, and the hobby itself should stimulate the desire for learning about what it is, and where it came from. This goes for much more than model railroading.

 

I was in model aviation for 20+ years (and other hobbies), and researched most aspects of the histories. Fascinating stuff. Now that I'm into Model Railroading I'm beginning my learning curve of its history, also fascinating stuff.

 

You should ALWAYS be wanting to learn. Always. If you quit learning, its over.

 

Humans of every sort would do well to learn about the real histories of as much as they can, as they are likely to repeat it.

 

.

 

quote:

 But building a layout should absolutely encapsulate a history in one form or another, and the hobby itself should stimulate the desire for learning about what it is, and where it came from. This goes for much more than model railroading.

 

Why?

If you want to focus on learning, it doesn't have to be the history of railroads. How about the history of manufacturing techniques, and/or how manufacturing is done? How about learning the basics of construction, using tools. Understanding electricity? Understanding electronics?

 

Its great when people share how they enjoy their hobby. I don't think anybody should be telling others that they way they enjoy their hobby is wrong.  

 

I started writing a reply here that quickly was turning into something well beyond the scope of the question.  In the end, No, you don't need to know anything about most anything to be able to enjoy it, however, people are missing out.  Both when they are unaware of history, and when they focus on it too much.  

 

I will say that the lack of focus on any sort of hands on work, any understanding of mechanics, or machinery, and the over all lack of teaching in schools today is down right troubling to me.  One of the early posts in this thread mentioned kids having enough to learn already, and I'm sure there IS plenty for them to learn.  We just don't teach it any longer for fear that someone may not understand.  In a board meeting of my local school district, I was astonished to learn that an actual part of the 11th grade english curriculum was teaching students how to use a comma.  If we are only getting to commas in 11th grade, of course there is no time to teach of the industrial revolution, or to develop a sense of curiosity of how things work.  

 

 

 

---

 

“From the first catch-phrases flung at a child to the last, it is like a series of shocks to freeze his motor, to undercut the power of his consciousness. 'Don't ask so many questions, children should be seen and not heard!'–'Who are you to think? It's so, because I say so!'–'Don't argue, obey!'–'Don't try to understand, believe!'–'Don't rebel, adjust!–'Don't stand out, belong!'–'Don't struggle, compromise!'–'Your heart is more important than your mind!'–'Who are you to know? Your parents know best!'–'Who are you to know? Society knows best!'–'Who are you to know? The bureaucrats know best!'–'Who are you to object? All values are relative!'–'Who are you to want to escape a thug's bullet? That's only a personal prejudice!'”
— Hank Rearden,  Atlas Shrugged 

 

Schools have enough to teach without introducing a rail history class. Transportation doesn't need more than a chapter in the over all history of the nation.

Do you need rail history knowledge to enjoy our hobby: The O gauge railroading hobby is too big for the answer to be yes or no. Look at the number of forums here on OGR, the answer is going to skew differently depending on the crowd.

It would be difficult to fit in with the 2 rail scale crowd without a good understanding of rail history. While the tinplate crowd isn't going to really care. This traditional 3 rail forum is filled with people from both extremes and a lot of us in the middle.

I like history, but I really like O gauge trains. I don't care too learn the fine details of railroading because it interferes with my love of model railroading. I don't like getting bogged down with the differences between a GP40 and a GP40-2. I don't want to look at my NYC Pacemaker boxcars and be disappointed because the doors are painted red and grey. I certainly don't want to start worrying about my third-rail.

The O gauge branch of model railroading is the most splintered of all the scales. Sometimes this creates problems, but it provides a place for everyone. History nuts fit in, but so do those of us who just like toy trains.

quote:

I will say that the lack of focus on any sort of hands on work, any understanding of mechanics, or machinery, and the over all lack of teaching in schools today is down right troubling to me.

 

These things are not taught because these skills are not valued in todays society. I used to be surprised (not any longer) when I met people who didn't understand basic electricity, or how to perform simple home repairs. I have an adult friend who didn't know how to pull a nail until I showed him. But I guess its common these days.

I'll stop here, because I don't want to be the one to turn this thread to a political discussion.  

Absolutely not! The little kids with their eyes popping out of their sockets at my train club's open house don't know railroad history. When I got my first train at 5 years old I didn't know about railroad history. I think you got the chicken/egg thing backwards. Young people's fascination with trains starts with a toy that moves is colorful and makes sounds and has play value. Later in life, it is a representation of a large powerful machine that in real life is thousands or millions of pounds of moving parts resulting in unbelievable power. Model Trains inspired my interest in Railroad history not the other way around. The more I learned about the prototypical versions of my models, the more I wanted to know more about them, the railroads they represent and the history of railroading in general.

Well, I don't think there is a lack of interest in the history of railroads in the world of

model and toy trains.  All you have to do is walk through a train show (except

York, for some reason...) where, if there are not one or more book dealers, with

books on every obscure short line you never heard of, there is somebody there selling

railroad books on their table among the trains.  With the thought about York, maybe

tinplaters are not as interested in the history of real trains as are the scale modelers?

This one certainly is interested in the history, and has to ignore all the books, as not

wanting to spend money there, as I could very easily do, rather than on trains.

Yes.

 

You literally cannot enjoy the toys without rudimentary knowledge of the nature--and therefore inevitably the history--of the real thing.  You have to know which piece is the locomotive.  You cannot help but know that certain cars carry certain types of things just from looking at them.  You have to know that the kind we play with run on tracks (other kinds of train toys do not) or they don't run at all.  Those folks who say they know nothing about the real thing are mistaken--they know that much, at least.  They know a flatcar from a passenger car, a tank car from a boxcar.  They know a crane car from a hopper.  They may choose not to advance beyond that rudimentary knowledge, but they have to know that much, at least.