I know nothing about RR history, and I have a fair amount of knowledge and interest about history in general. Thinking about it further, I don't have much of an interest in real trains either, but regardless, I still enjoy playing with trains.
Go figure.
Posted by palallin:
You cannot help but know that certain cars carry certain types of things just from looking at them. You have to know that the kind we play with run on tracks (other kinds of train toys do not) or they don't run at all.
Sorry but this is not railroad history. There is nothing historical in knowing which end is the front and what a boxcar is for.
It is self-evident from the majority of posts across the entire forum that knowledge is not a prerequisite for participation in the hobby.
Do you need to know RR history? No. Does it enhance / enrich the hobby for those who desire to learn about it? Yes, it surely has the potential for doing that.
Posted by palallin:
You cannot help but know that certain cars carry certain types of things just from looking at them. You have to know that the kind we play with run on tracks (other kinds of train toys do not) or they don't run at all.
Sorry but this is not railroad history. There is nothing historical in knowing which end is the front and what a boxcar is for.
It is self-evident from the majority of posts across the entire forum that knowledge is not a prerequisite for participation in the hobby.
Absolutely the BEST post that I have seen on the entire OGR forum network in many months!
Posted by palallin:
As you say: sorry, but it IS history, as the shape of every kind of car has been determined by the history of its use. There is more to history than dates and events.
You are entitled to your opinion and I respect your point of view. However, I don't see how dealing with the result of history is the same as knowledge of history. When I run my doodlebug, the doodlebug is the result of history. I don't necessarily have knowledge of the history of the doodlebug. We will just have to agree to disagree.
I think that teaching railroad history in school would be a waste of time. It is more important for students to learn basic American history and how our government works. I am dismayed by the lack of knowledge about the Constitution, our 3 branches of government and how our laws work.
I have a library of over a hundred books about railroads. Books and magazines are probably my single biggest yearly "model railroading" expense. I enjoy reading all kinds of history and getting an understanding of how and why things happened.
I am currently studying the Battle of Gettysburg. I hope to tour the park if I ever get York.
Joe
Knowledge definitely isn't a pre-requisite but, depending on your tastes, it can be a 2-way street. As you build your collection you will find out the history behind it, whether you soak up the prototype history or the history of the models themselves.
While you enjoy running trains, you'll gain knowledge whether you want to or not.
I think the answer to the original question is "no."
However, for me (someone pretty uniformed about railroad history) the O gauge hobby actually made me curious to learn and I've really enjoyed the "real trains" aspect. Have bought several books on some of the major roads (especially B&O) and on other more general topics. The real find for me -- because I'd never seen an issue -- was Classic Trains Magazine which I think is fantastic. Have subscribed now for close to 10 years.
No.
I got my first train in 1953 as a boy. I enoyed it as a toy. In 1972 in bought a train set for my sons, again enjoying it as a toy. In 1992 I started buying trains for myself and started collecting. In 1995 I joined the TCA and started digging into the history of toy trains and real trains and railroads.
For me itwas a progression.
Ken
No...BUT, my opinion is that you may actually enjoy the hobby better if you gave history a chance. Back 35 years or so ago when I was in college, I had a history teacher who literally yelled his history lessons out at the class. At the time, I thought it was annoying, but looking back I think he helped to make me enjoy history by making it stand out from my other classes.
There are a lot of books on probably every railroad out there.
Tom
It is self-evident from the majority of posts across the entire forum that knowledge is not a prerequisite for participation in the hobby.
Amen, brother.
After seeing so many "NO's" to railroad history, I just have to say, it would be really nice to have community colleges offer courses on railroad history. I even believe that a high school elective on railroad history wouldn't hurt anything.
Of course, this begs the question: Would there be enough interest to make the course worthwhile?
When travelling back south on US 441 from the Smokey Mountains, I picked up a book by Brian Boyd - "Tallulah Falls Rairoad". The relatively short 64 pages of words and photos told a great story of how the railroad allowed commerce and passenger service in its surrounding area. A very enjoyable read.
Before paved roads and dependable automobiles, rail service was very beneficial for the expansion of towns across the USA.
TM Terry,
Is there enough interest? Realistically and sadly, probably not. There are always a few who give me hope though.
There were two evening news shows recently on a few nights ago (CBS Evening News, I think), that covered the anniversary of the WWll Battle of Iwo Jima and another on the The Tuskegee Airmen. Hope I am not misremembering them like someone else in the news...but if I recall correctly, the Tuskegee story had these veterans visiting a school that had allocated only an hour for their talk...meanwhile the students were so interested the school turned it into an all day event. The other story showed a 14 or so year old girl fascinated by the history that the veteran was sharing and admitted realizing that this was an opportunity that may not be around much longer.
Tom
I know nothing about RR history, and I have a fair amount of knowledge and interest about history in general. Thinking about it further, I don't have much of an interest in real trains either, but regardless, I still enjoy playing with trains.
Go figure.
After seeing so many "NO's" to railroad history, I just have to say, it would be really nice to have community colleges offer courses on railroad history. I even believe that a high school elective on railroad history wouldn't hurt anything.
Considering how little time schools give to history overall as it is, I think a class in just RR history would harmful in the extreme, in that most history classes rarely ever get to the end of the book (even in my era, I graduated in 87 and don't recall ever getting to the end of any history book in class). So little emphasis is put on history as it is, the last thing this country needs is having normal history dilluted one bit.
As much as we love trains and agree on their importance to everyone over the years, a class in RR history should rate really low on the priority list of any high school...
I do. To me, trains ARE American history and are synonymous with periods of progress in our country's history.
Absoluely not....and not just trains. Over the years I've known a number of people with different hobby interests - model planes, cars, ships... collecting stamps, coins, paper money, vinyl albums, etc. and many of them had zero interest about any aspect of the things they were building or collecting other that the item/object itself and they were having a lot of fun doing whatever it was they were doing.
As for me, I enjoy history, any kind of history and I think it makes not only this hobby of trains more interesting but just about everything else I do as well (never forget the time I almost drove off the road looking at the construction of the high tension transmission line towers running parallel to the highway all because I had just finishing reading Infrastructure - the Field Guide to the Industrial Landscape and was looking for the differences in the construction of the regular towers verses the diverging towers...but that's another story)
...and as for teaching it in school - like others said - there are bigger fish to fry in that venue - I'd leave it alone.
As the saying goes, "C's get degrees." The fact is, there is more information presented in, for example, my 8th grade american history book, that I never turned in, than the average adult can even remember having "learned" Do we remember the erie canal, and what it did? Do we remember the old cord roads before that, and the origins of the term turn pike? When it comes to basic information that helps give an understanding why things turned out the way they did in american history, the information is there, and provided, we just don't care if you don't remember it a day after the quiz.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
No, not for me.
Yes.
You literally cannot enjoy the toys without rudimentary knowledge of the nature--and therefore inevitably the history--of the real thing. You have to know which piece is the locomotive. You cannot help but know that certain cars carry certain types of things just from looking at them. You have to know that the kind we play with run on tracks (other kinds of train toys do not) or they don't run at all. Those folks who say they know nothing about the real thing are mistaken--they know that much, at least. They know a flatcar from a passenger car, a tank car from a boxcar. They know a crane car from a hopper. They may choose not to advance beyond that rudimentary knowledge, but they have to know that much, at least.
A look at eBay will show that you do not need a knowledge of railroads or even toy/model trains to sell them. Pictures of steam engines with the tender backwards, tenders referred to as coal cars, locomotives referred to as trains or train cars, selling as is 'cause I don't know how to test it... you get the idea. lol
Wow, so many opinions, thoughts, and philosophy's regarding, Toy Trains, Scale Toy Trains, and The Real Trains....Very interesting, and with this OGR FORUM Reaching Worldwide, Other Countries, it's Obvious, Model Trains are for Fun, History Lessons are Choices, For or Against, it's our individual Choice....Personally, when I was a Child, (Lionel GG1 Set) ) 1950's, I loved the toy trains, sectional track going around couches, behind sofa's, under TV's, was Lots of Fun....Then came Girls, College, Marriage, Kids, and back to Lionel Trains, in the 70's 80's 90's, Through Today....Now, in building my layout, it's nice to see a little history and how The Real Railroads set up Yards, Main Lines, Tunnels, Bridges,
And Train Routes.....It's just a Growing Sensation, that Started with a Toy....WOW.
Enjoy Model Trains YOUR Way, it's Up to Your Imagitation...Happy Railroading
Good question, my response is both yes and no, yes knowledge of railroading and railroad infrastructure would be beneficial in building a model railroad system and no one can get so bogged down with replicating a real prototypical railroad, current or fallen flags, that the fun of building and operating the model railroad is diminished.
I feel not knowing a little about the history of the railroads and what runs on them you are a little poorer for it. All my life I've known and been fascinated by trains and railways. The toy/ model train is a pretend of the real thing. Now older i want to know and learn what and where these engines, railways are/were. I like to know what the history of this facsimile I've just purchased, not just put it on the track and watch it run about. It's always going to be about fun and enjoyment but a little knowledge never hurt anyone. if you want to label me then I'd be a railway enthusiast.......and proud of it! Railways have a solid and interesting history the world over.....
Wow! Quite a load of views........I guess i should come clean.......as a kid, I just played with toy trains.....loved the real ones, but other than enjoying them go by....not much else.
After 10+ years with low train activity (HS, college, med school), when I got back into the hobby in 1980, I became a complete nut job and began to enjoy the entire package....the toy trains and the railroads they represent....and, it has been that way ever since.
Do do you need to know about RR history to to enjoy toy trains.....no. But do I? Absolutely.....I have difficulty separating the two!
Peter
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