Don't make the same mistake I did!!

Interesting. I don’t think this has been covered before. So let me get this right; it affected only one handheld and not the other?

@Rod Stewart posted:

Interesting. I don’t think this has been covered before. So let me get this right; it affected only one handheld and not the other?

Isn't that an interesting thing!!??  One reason I posted the two different version numbers. Greg

It would be even more interesting to know if updating both remotes to the same newer software version corrected the problem!

Several years ago I upgraded my TIU’s and handhelds to V5.0. It seemed to me that ever since then I see a lot less of those kinds of error messages and now I wonder if the update may have “fixed” some errant electro-magnetic TIU interference. My main TIU sits right underneath a Z-4000 and close to a PC power supply as well as a Base1 and a Base 2. Who knows what magetic fields are in close enough proximity to be an issue?

Rod

@cngw posted:

Neither of those are older Lionel trans.

A transformer magnetic field is still a magnetic field. Same for all transformers new or old.

@Rod Stewart posted:

Several years ago I upgraded my TIU’s and handhelds to V5.0. It seemed to me that ever since then I see a lot less of those kinds of error messages and now I wonder if the update may have “fixed” some errant electro-magnetic TIU interference. My main TIU sits right underneath a Z-4000 and close to a PC power supply as well as a Base1 and a Base 2. Who knows what magetic fields are in close enough proximity to be an issue?

I'd be very surprised if magnetic fields are causing any anomalies in operation with of either the TIU or the Lionel command bases.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd be very surprised if magnetic fields are causing any anomalies in operation with of either the TIU or the Lionel command bases.

I, too, am curious about this.    On my old layout, my TIU sat right in between an old Lionel Type V, and an old Lionel RW transformer.   I was using those to power lights and accessories.

At the time I was using my original post war ZW-275 for track.  This was before I finalized my layout plans, and got my PH180 bricks.  I still use the old power for ancillary things around the layout.

I was running TMCC and DCS.

I never had any signal problems or remote communication problems with those old transformers that all sat together with my TIU and Command Base.  Of course, this does not discount what cngw has experienced, and if moving the transformer solved the issue, cool.

I have dealt with this type of thing with old, high power stage amps causing issues with the old 900mhz wireless systems for guitar and vocals.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd be very surprised if magnetic fields are causing any anomalies in operation with of either the TIU or the Lionel command bases.

John, the only other thing I can think of is that the two wires (red and black shown) that feed accessories might have been acting s antennas  to interfere with the RF reception. They moved with the transformer. Greg

My post was meant to show that sometimes we all get tunnel vision. We "know" the solution to the problem, based on prior knowledge, so we act accordingly. In reality, the solution might be completely unrelated to the real cause of the problem. It was not a condemnation  of the DCS (or any) operating system.

And it is possible we will never know if the upgrade to the system would have not allowed the problem to have happened at all.

Also, before I posted, after the problem was solved, I moved the old Lionel transformer back to the upper shelf to test if it caused the problem....I got the same result. It was either the transformer, or the wires feeding it causing the original problem - in my opinion.

Greg

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd be very surprised if magnetic fields are causing any anomalies in operation with of either the TIU or the Lionel command bases.

Me too John, but I don’t think you can rule it out. And CNGW just repeated the exact same interference observation again in the above post.

i am reminded of when I was helping a friend in Arizona hookup a Legacy set to his layout about 2 years ago. The Base 2 was initially mounted right beside the Base 1. Interference resulted, evidenced by the Base 1 red led showing continuous activity; and TMCC engines would not run. The fix was simple; we just moved the Base 1 a couple of feet away. Presto, problem solved. Who would have thought there would be an interference problem in the first place?

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

Me too John, but I don’t think you can rule it out. And CNGW just repeated the exact same interference observation again in the above post.

i am reminded of when I was helping a friend in Arizona hookup a Legacy set to his layout about 2 years ago. The Base 2 was initially mounted right beside the Base 1. Interference resulted, evidenced by the Base 1 red led showing continuous activity; and TMCC engines would not run. The fix was simple; we just moved the Base 1 a couple of feet away. Presto, problem solved. Who would have thought there would be an interference problem in the first place?

Rod

You're right, without actually seeing it and looking at the exact situation, it's impossible to say.  I base this on my experience with avionics design, one of the many tests were strong magnetic fields around the equipment.  Any upset was obviously a cause to fail that qualification.  That was one test that we never spent any significant time on as I never saw it fail.  There were some products that did incorporate mu metal shielding for sensitive circuits.

The two command bases are more understandable, they're both outputting the 455khz track signal.  That's an RF frequency that is carried over the air to the locomotives, so those clashing really isn't a surprise.