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Hi All

I beg your indulgence while I tell you a story. Once upon a time ... well, it is not that hard ... there was a Max Grey Pennsy M1. Nice engine by the way. I dont know when it was imported but my guess was in the mid fiftys. It seems to have been passed around from owner to owner in the Northern NJ area, and much-modified along the way. I cannot begin to tell you how many times it has changed hands. I acquired it recently from a friend who was downsizing. I guess we all have to go through that misery sooner or later, but I did give him a fair price for it. The modifications seem to be centered on the drive-train, which was scratch built.

I spotted the unit about a year ago. It had sat inside a wooden carrying case on the concrete floor of the owners basement. The basement was notionally dry, but as you all know, the basement is the lowest point in the house and it does tend to collect moisture. Over many years, moisture wicked up from the concrete through the wood and began to rust the drivers. Last year I took the engine home and I was able to remove the rust using a dremel tool. The results were fair, and possibly acceptabile with some paint. BUT it would be nice to find new drivers because a few of the old ones are pitted from the rust.

The drivers are made of steel and across the tyres measure 1.5 inches. The axles are 0.25 inches in diameter.

Any bright ideas??

John McEnerney
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quote:
Originally posted by John McEnerney:

The drivers are made of steel and across the tyres measure 1.5 inches. The axles are 0.25 inches in diameter.


John,
You don't need new drivers. You need new tires. Joe Foehrkolb (Baldwin Forge & Machine) or Matt Forsyth (Forsyth Rail Services) can make new tires for you. That way you don't need to worry about re-quartering, re-gearing, re-bushing new drivers to fit an old mechanism.
Joe
Alternatives to purchasing new drivers include refacing the existing tires (if the pitting isn't too deep), or turning and mounting new tires. Joe Foehrkolb of Baldwin Forge & Machine has done very nice tire replacement work on several of my locomotives.
If replacing the Max Gray/KTM drivers with those from the USH M1a or Westside/KTM M1 check that the journal width on the replacement ones match the originals. The axel diameters on my MG locomotives are larger than on my USH/Westside KTM locomotives. That won't be an issue if the journal width's match - but something to check before you buy.

Ed Rappe
Joe's offer is as good as you are going to do. These drivers are fairly rare, and a matched set on eBay will probably bring $200, if recent sales are any indication. The entire locomotive can be found for less than a grand.

They are 72" drivers, with straight counterweights. I have only seen one set. The more common sets were for the SP Mountain - lots of them were dumped in the mid-1970s by Mrs. Kemalyan. Twelve bucks got you a complete set.
quote:
Originally posted by bob2:
Joe's offer is as good as you are going to do. These drivers are fairly rare, and a matched set on eBay will probably bring $200, if recent sales are any indication. The entire locomotive can be found for less than a grand.

They are 72" drivers, with straight counterweights. I have only seen one set. The more common sets were for the SP Mountain - lots of them were dumped in the mid-1970s by Mrs. Kemalyan. Twelve bucks got you a complete set.


I suspect you are right about this. I contacted Joe off line and the price he quoted seemed fair. Right now I dont know what I am going to do. I need to experiment with the unit to determine a course of action.

Thanks

John
John, how badly are the tires pitted? Have youi tried running the loco? A bit of roughness on the treads might improve traction. And enough running might smooth the treads if your Dremel work left some marks on them.

Were the drivers painted, or was the loco "as imported" (unpainted) when you bought it? Real loco driver wheel centers were castings & not as smooth as the coinings used on O Scale models, so a bit of roughness would be more prototypical. After all, to quote Burt Lancaster's character in "The Train": "It's a locomotive--not a pocket watch."
Hi Woody

quote:
Originally posted by jwmathews:
John, how badly are the tires pitted? Have youi tried running the loco? A bit of roughness on the treads might improve traction. And enough running might smooth the treads if your Dremel work left some marks on them.



Most of the pitting is on the face of the drivers. There is some on the tyres but not too much. I might be able to turn them on my Unimat and get the worst of it off. The real problem is not getting the mechanism apart, but rather putting it together again in a way where you dont lose screws all over the layout when you run it again.

John
Those older locos from USH and MG and many others seem to have sand cast drivers with machined spots for crank mounting and bearing surfaces. They look rough naturally. They will not be smooth and shiny no matter what you do or how new.

On the other hand, for decent operation, the tires have to be smooth with no or very little pitting. The pitting will reduce electrical pickup as it collects dirt and cause stalls.

Remember if you remove the drivers and turn them down in your unimat you will potentially have two new problems. First you will change the driver size probably significanly to get the pits out. So the loco may no longer look right. And you would probably have to get each one to same diameter. Second, when you reassemble, you have requarter all the drivers, which I have found to be very difficult and the difficulty seems to increase by the square of the number of axles!

If the pitting is not too bad, another approach is to put the loco upside down in a foam cradle (or somesuch) and run the mechanism. Then use very fine emery paper to polish the driver tires.

Without photos it is hard to get a feel for how bad it is. I would lean toward cleaning and painting if it does affect operation. Since it is an MG, I might be tempted to upgrade the details on the superstructure.
If the main problem is getting the screws back in the right holes sufficiently tight, then the solution is to sell this puppy and get an MTH version. I agree that driver work will involve quartering, and few of us have the jigs for that.

I have a jig that gets them to within .001", but my rates are four times those that Joe charges. Just disassembling and re-assembling is a $200 job in my shop. I believe a 2-rail Weaver M1 can be had for twice that.
I am not familiar with the MTH M1 or M1A.

However, the Weaver one does not look right. The pilot truck is made too long to accomodate 3 rail curves (it can move around the cylinders. This makes the pilot deck too long and the whole front kind of elongated. If you compare it to an MG, USH, Westside or the newer brass ones, it will not look proper to many eyes.
Post

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