Edit: MTH 241.A dies . . . is fixed

...And if the same thing happened if it were brand L, then what?  Do you always give up after one bad episode?

If you car acts up, and it doesn't get fixed right by repair shop A, do you take it to repair shop B, or just immediately delegate it to the garage?

Sorry to sound cynical, but if you get a new locomotive that's under warranty and you elect not to leverage that, I somehow don't feel overly sympathetic after that.

Notify your dealer, and open a case w/ your credit card company; attempt to get it fixed; if unable to be repaired to your satisfaction, then ask your dealer for a replacement or refund; if he's unwilling, then ask your credit card company for a refund.

I agree with John, Lee.

Don't just give up on a company because of one bad experience and then give up again on a brand new locomotive from the same company. Both companies have sort of a luck to them. Some people get good locomotives w/o problems from both companies while others do not. 

You paid for that MTH European locomotive to run not to sit on a shelf. Don't waste your money. Get it fixed like it or not and you won't regret it when it runs right. 

I had a similar issue with my Legacy Lindbergh Special. The thing was a major pain and like you I wanted to never buy anything again from Lionel. I had to send the engine back 4 times!!! Without free shipping three of the times!!! Yes I know it sounds crazy but I figured "Well I got myself into this mess by buying it in the first place and now I need to get out of it myself." I figured like I already said Lee that I paid for this locomotive to run and getting a refund wouldn't work for me because I could get myself back in the same situation with another brand new locomotive. My hard earned cash is in the machine and I wasn't going to give up on it. "Duds" happen and I expect it to not always happen again. Its part of the hobby. Turns out after multiple trips Lionel techs got her running right and she is the center of my floor layout. I absolutely love it!

Hope this helped. 

Thanks guys, but my mind is made up.  No more MTH Locos.  I have six MTH steamers: two PS2 models are okay - not the greatest locos I have, but they work entirely, two (one PS1, one  PS2) have minor problems in that every feature does not work but the y run okay, and two are the disasters I reported-mechanical problems: that should not happen.  Not one MTH loco I have has really great sound, which is important to me.  

But I will admit, the 241.A is just the most beautiful toy loco ever!

By contrast I have 21 L steamers and only one (the recent conventional Mogul) went bad when new - I ended up transferring that body to the running gear of a WBB Baldwin ten wheeler to create a wonderful little loco.  One (a recent shay) will not run on O-36 as advertised but is otherwise good. Meanwhile the other 19 run every time, perfectly, with everything working, and particularly in the recent Legacy locos, the sound is spectacular.  And I have six WBB steamers now -  no sound, of course, but they only cost about $200 each and they run great, and apparently, forever.  

If Lionel and WBB did not do such a good job of making locos I might feel different, but I think I can get by with them only . . . MTH has just caused too much heartburn. Once burned, twice shy . . . .

So you have a new locomotive that is defective and you don't want to repair it under warranty. Very strange indeed.

 yes i think so.Ii took mine back just to lights fixed

Lee please take the engine to get fixed!!! Even if you won't buy anymore MTH get the engine fixed! You paid to much to let it sit! I mean you can get a refund too if you like!

Lets see, been away for a while, lets see how OGR is doing.

Yup, still fighting over Lionel vs. MTH.

And by the way, Ford is BETTER! (Snicker, snicker).

Had a 49 Ford once,was a good car.

Dale H

It seems from all the threads lately about Mth and Lionel, it seems the Q.C. Dept. needs to be looked at by the main people manufacturing the products, sounds like the two companies have the same Q.C. Dept. it is sad to see that products that cost a heavy dollar have been either made a little cheaper to save the extra dime, or something is not being brought up to the C.E.O. Of the company to correct it to insure the customer comes back, if it isn't the O gauge market it's the tinplate market too , electronics, paint, or mechanical issues, Sounds like these companies need to get there ducks in a row before they loose a lot more sales or more sevre complaints.It just seem products today are only getting worse in some areas. Hopefully these threads are being monitored by the companies to resolve these issues. KG

They dont care because people keep buying anyway

Dale H

Lee;

I'm sorry but it sounds to me like you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.   Get the bloody thing repaired.  Don't turn it into a shelf queen.  You paid too much for that.

I seem to recall that you also reported some operational problems of some sort with your Lionel Legacy Union Pacific U-boat, did you not?  Granted, it's not steam, but still, since you're writing off MTH for engines in general, it's worth noting.

So I'd say you're 2 for 2 when it comes to having encountered "problems" between the two brands as it stands if the U-Boat is included.

Sounds like one brand is given a free pass while the other is being demonized, especially since warranty repair is being blatantly portrayed as not an option.  Kinda indicative of some subliminal partisan posturing going on if you ask me...

Not getting it fixed especially under warranty is one of the stupidest decisions I have ever heard. No engine of mine will ever sit on a shelf because it has stopped running, it will be fixed.

It is a fascinating double-standard being displayed here. When a lionel product fails its "**** that Lionel for selling crap when will people wake up and stop buying it"and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. When an MTH product fails its "oh don't be so hard on MTH". Lee stated he was unhappy with the product and the service, its his money and his opinion.If Lee wants to shelve a defective loco thats his buisness, how many people shelve brand new locos out of the box for display and never place them on the track? MTH will survive there are many folks who are still very happy with their product.

I'm not an MTH guy, but I believe the least I would do in this situation would be to ask the dealer to just plain simply Replace the engine with a new one, even if you decide not to run it, you would have the satisfaction of at least knowing the engine is brand new. I recently had a similar problem with a brand new lionel engine and they replaced it immediately. No harm in asking. Good Luck Lee.

Back on June 28, 2011 MTH issued a service advisory for the 241's that stated that they needed to have a component replaced or added, and that this would be done by MTH service locations at no charge.  I believe owners were asked not to operate the loco until this mod was performed, as they would quickly fail -- it was your "30 minutes run time" that prompted this memory, as that was about the time frame some operators had experienced.  Was your 241 modified ??

I do not own a 241, but a friend does.

Best, SZ

Lee, I understand your frustration. However, don't give up on your new locomotive and MTH. Just return your locomotive to your dealer and let them return it to MTH for repair. Ask your dealer to call MTH and explan to them exactly what going on with your new engine. Tell your dealer to talk to Rich Foster. Rich, will make it right. Now, its a holiday weekend go and treat yourself to your favorite ice cream treat. 

I appreciate all the comments - and the lack of drama, guys.  I posted this with trepidation because I expected more flames, etc. 

I realize that folks think it strange that I am not going to get this loco fixed, but no - not in this case.  I have money to buy these things but not much time to fuss with them if they break.  (I bought a Blue Comet this morning in only five minutes, from the comfort on my study, where I am now).  Repair requires lots of time, to pack up and take to a UPS place, etc.  In this case my judgement, colored admittedly by a really bad experience, is that the repair would be chancy  . . . the last MTH steamer that broke . . . I did that six times and never got a running loco.  Not again. 

And, there is all of this . . . 

• First, I bought the 241.A knowing it was 1:43 and hoping it would fit well on a 1:48 layout anyway: it does not.  It's the first scale 1:43 loco I bought and it is just too big.
• Second, the sound (chuffing) on this loco was really disappointing.  The only feature other than its looks that I liked was the whistle (stunning).   
• Third, the loco is spectacular to look at and the scale does not matter when it is on a shelf, so it can do its thing there even if it is never repaired.  
• Fourth, I bought this for a project: I wanted a 1/48 model of the sole French 242.A that Chapelon made -- I had intended to modify this 241.A, but its scale means it won't work on my layout, and anyway, I could never touch this thing with tools - it is a work of art in the looks department!.  I will, in a future project, just scratch build a body for a 242 on some sort of 8-driver 1/48 scale loco body - 

So, I have half dozen or so locos I run a lot - and this 241.A will never be one, so why have it repaired?  I have about forty on shelves to look at, and this is one of the best there so its not only on a shelf its on the shelf because it is sooo beautiful. 

The only possible exception to my "no MTH locos" rule in the future might be this: MTH has a set of dies for a scale ATSF 2900 series Northern - my favorite locomotive.  I have a PS1 version but would love to have a PS3 version.  I would buy one of those, even if the sound were uncompetitive, and if it had problems, go to the trouble to get it fixed.  Of course, if Lionel offers a Vision or Legacy version first . . . 

Thanks all . . . 

The MTH 241 is gorgeous; the 242 would be a magnificent thing, and has been referred

to as the only steamer that approached the NYC 6000's (Niagaras) in output and

efficiency. And speaking of Niagaras: my Lionel Niarara was a lemon, mechanically and 

electronically (I've mentioned it before), and I'm in the market for an MTH unit (but

I like my Williams brass ones, and I'm always in the market for a Niagara...).

Big MTH steam sound is not as good as RS, but it's OK, and my Premier PS2 USRA 0-6-0

has the very BEST small steam sound I've ever heard. Anyway, sound is not the deal-breaker/maker for me that it is for some.

Anyway, get your 241 fixed. My now shelf-queen Lionel Niagara just looks so good,

but I fear running it...fool me once...twice...too often

I fixed it myself.  And yes, I'm very proud of myself. :-)

I was not going to return it, period.   But I woke up early this morning, did not feel like working on my current project and decided, what the . . . I can't mess it up more than it is.  

Quite a job to take it apart.   Nearly 90 minutes.  several false starts, and a lot of care.  The owner's manual is not a lot of help.  I'd never chance it on a loco that wasn't already dead . . . a lot of stuff to move and poke and prod to find the problem . . . 

The motor was loose!!!  Screws (missing) had come out or were never there and the gears barely making contact.  I think when it tried to run the gears would momentarily make contact, then not, then again, then not, etc.  Hence the stutter and loud max RPM motor noise.  

I don't know if the screws were there when brand new but it ran perfectly out of the box, but I saw no marks where they would have scratched underneath their heads if tightened: it looked like they had never been there.    I searched the shelf where it was kept, the floor near that, the place where I put it on the rails to try to run it this weekend, and found no screws.  Even used a magnet to see if there was one somewhere I could not see.  No joy

Took a fe minutes going through my parts bins but I found some that both have the right threads and length and reattached to motor and loctited them.  Put everything back as well as I could and put it back together.  I was really worried - some of the attached stuff is delicate, but I broke nothing (that I have noticed, anyway).    

BTW - teeth on the gears were slightly mangled and chewed due to the lack of good alignment (all that noise it made when it would not run this weekend), but it runs okay now.  there is no noise, but I'd worry about them wearing out pre-maturely if it were going to be a daily runner, but, even fixed, its up on the shelf now, doing what it does best.

But at least its whole again . . . 

Hey Lee: Now I feel better your engine is running. By the way I know of some service departments looking for good help. (just kidding) Congratulations on your repair. Casey.

Good going. Now you can keep your logo. "I never met a model locomotive I didn't like."

Don

Well, actually, I liked it even when it was broken.  Gorgeous, gorgeous paint and detail.  Still, I am happy it runs again.

It's always nice to get things running.  Even if I'm not going to run them, it's like an itch that I can't scratch when I have a broken one!   Same with my gun collection, if it doesn't shoot, it's not a gun.

Nicely done, Lee.

I'm not sure that I have enough of what it takes to do a repair like that. Great job!

Bruce

Well, Lee chops up brand new Legacy locomotives, so taking this one apart was probably child's play.

But I chop them up with care, guys! :-)

Still, I did this project with a certain amount of nervousness, because I was very concerned about scratching the paint or damaging any of small and delicate add-on details.  The 241.A really is a tour de force from the looks and detail department - more like brass than a mass-production loco.  The worst case for me would have been not being able to fix it and damaging its looks in some way while trying.  Luckily in worked out well. 

But of course!