ERR orders

Actually,

I think OGR has been pretty good about letting us vent! I mean they are train guys after all.....I think they understand the situation....

Hello ERR my old friend

We will miss you in the end

my vision line it is creeping

an old f3 was left weeping

And a cruise that was planted in my brain

But, none remain

Just the sound of silence.

I just hope that Lionel is reading these threads and taking notice. We are not going away anytime soon and we will be watching for an annocement from them soon

shawn posted:

Actually,

I think OGR has been pretty good about letting us vent! I mean they are train guys after all.....I think they understand the situation....

 

Hello ERR my old friend

We will miss you in the end

my vision line it is creeping

an old f3 was left weeping

And a cruise that was planted in my brain

But, none remain

Just the sound of silence.

Well, the Luddite in me has to respond:

(Sung to Gordon Lightfoot's Canadian Railway Trilogy...)

There was a time in this great land when model trains were fun

A train, some track, a power pack, on the floor to run

Long before command control or sounds to turn a wheel

And yet somehow back in the day it managed to seem real...

Rusty

nvocc5 posted:

I just hope that Lionel is reading these threads and taking notice. We are not going away anytime soon and we will be watching for an annocement from them soon

 

I'm sure they are watching and taking it in.  I just don't think we are doing ourselves any favors by negatively harping on it constantly.  It does nothing but stir everyone up and create hard feelings between folks that if were otherwise standing in a train room around a layout would be sharing a beer.  I say we give them some time.  After that we can ask again and see what we get.

Oh MartE, you’re such a Lionel FANBOY!!!!!

Rusty Traque posted:

shawn posted:

Actually,

I think OGR has been pretty good about letting us vent! I mean they are train guys after all.....I think they understand the situation....

 

Hello ERR my old friend

We will miss you in the end

my vision line it is creeping

an old f3 was left weeping

And a cruise that was planted in my brain

But, none remain

Just the sound of silence.

Well, the Luddite in me has to respond:

(Sung to Gordon Lightfoot's Canadian Railway Trilogy...)

There was a time in this great land when model trains were fun

A train, some track, a power pack, on the floor to run

Long before command control or sounds to turn a wheel

And yet somehow back in the day it managed to seem real...

Rusty

lol!

MartyE posted:

nvocc5 posted:

I just hope that Lionel is reading these threads and taking notice. We are not going away anytime soon and we will be watching for an annocement from them soon

 

I'm sure they are watching and taking it in.  I just don't think we are doing ourselves any favors by negatively harping on it constantly.  It does nothing but stir everyone up and create hard feelings between folks that if were otherwise standing in a train room around a layout would be sharing a beer.  I say we give them some time.  After that we can ask again and see whatMart!

MartyE posted:

I say we give them some time.  After that we can ask again and see what we get.

OK...OK... I'll wait.  I can't say I'll wait patiently, but I'll wait.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

MartyE posted:

I say we give them some time.  After that we can ask again and see what we get.

OK...OK... I'll wait.  I can't say I'll wait patiently, but I'll wait.

Well, If it doesn't work out. I will have to dig up the competitions system!

It's always nice when someone makes your point for you. 

Better than popcorn, time to relax and forget about ERR.

Matt Makens posted:

Better than popcorn, time to relax and forget about ERR.

You Bet!

shawn posted:

Actually,

I think OGR has been pretty good about letting us vent! I mean they are train guys after all.....I think they understand the situation....

 

Hello ERR my old friend

We will miss you in the end

my vision line it is creeping

an old f3 was left weeping

And a cruise that was planted in my brain

But, none remain

Just the sound of silence.

Too funny!  Shawn you certainly have the best post I have seen about ERR so far!  

My words of wisdom: Good news will come soon to those who wait patiently.

shawn posted:

Matt Makens posted:

Better than popcorn, time to relax and forget about ERR.

You Bet!

Now you guys are getting it... Sit back, relax, and pop a brew.  I'll take a diet Pepsi myself.  Jon gave some good advice.  Wait patiently.  Let's stay positive!

My thoughts on this situation. I ordered once I heard 3 kits to upgrade engines to TMCC. They were cancelled and paypal refunded.

Were am I now, well I need to switch 1 MTH with a PS-32 board which I understand these are only available to dealers. I am considering using PS3 kits from MTH, but wish need a PS32 also. The other engines that need ERR kits and I have 6, I rather just add TMCC to.

I'll wait till next May, if ERR is dead to us the individual consumer, I will tear the layot down, sell everything O and consider moving into HO with a new themed layout of the late 1800 era. I've been checking out already and getting ready for this possibilty and amazed at whats available, price, DCC and control, and also the standards which the  manufacturers follow and the amazing details of all the rolling stock and engines. I've got a lot invested in O scale, but naught if I can't repair or replace dead engines. Until that time, I won't be investing in any further O scale items.

I hope Lionel follows through, as well as being able to find and acquire PS 32 boards for repairs. One or the other will keep me in O scale. there are alternatives, and HO is starting to lok good. Also amazed that many manufacturers include diagrams of their engines in the packaging, compared to O scale, which is nil.

MartyE posted:

shawn posted:

Matt Makens posted:

Better than popcorn, time to relax and forget about ERR.

You Bet!

Now you guys are getting it... Sit back, relax, and pop a brew.  I'll take a diet Pepsi myself.  Jon gave some good advice.  Wait patiently.  Let's stay positive!

Yes, just like we have with the Mogul Fiasco going on eight months now!

Sorry but actions speak louder than words, and over the past few years lionel actions speak for themselves.  I know Dave is trying to fix the Mogul but it should of never come to him needing to fix it in the first place.  This ERR fiasco should never have happen, goes to show the higher ups don't understand us or the hobby.

Ok, I feel better, i've vented.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled programing

Drinking Belvedere tonics and watching sci-fi reruns at 9:30 am isn’t gonna fly 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I agree Pete, you can build a TMCC engine with the Lionel parts, and lots of them are floating around on the used market as well.  My problem is the lack of cruise, a very desirable feature that I don't want to live without.

nvocc5 posted:

Dear John

Are the "back-EMF board" from Lionel model specific or this there a general "back-EMF board"?

This is the board I'm talking about, it's wired up exactly like the ERR CC-M, and it works in most engines.  I hesitate to say "all" as we've had discussions about having to buffer the serial data in certain scenarios.  I just received a couple of these and promptly put them on my test stand and exercised them to make sure they worked, I got a bad one a couple years ago and didn't test it until I needed it, big mistake!

John,

While I wait,which never accomplished anything, can you direct me to the discussion on these boards? Thanks.

Bruce 

This is interesting!  3rd Rail to distribute ERR Products.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

This is interesting!  3rd Rail to distribute ERR Products.

Where have you been?  LOL!   Just kidding John!

Lionel Announcement / 3rd Rail Announcement

This is no surprise. But I do need my ERR refund

Sort of makes you wonder why this wasn't in place first, you know that cart and horse thing.  

necrails posted:

Sort of makes you wonder why this wasn't in place first, you know that cart and horse thing.  

Agreed!

I guess what we can learn from this is how not to close/shutdown a popular division of your business. If they would have worked out this deal before shutting down ERR Lionel could have avoided this entire PR nightmare.

I am happy that Lionel was able to salvage this in hurry, but can you image how much better 3rd Rail could have hit the ground running with TMCC upgrades if this deal would have been planned and transitioned over the last year or so.

necrails posted:

Sort of makes you wonder why this wasn't in place first, you know that cart and horse thing.  

Because that doesn't sell ERR boards...

J Daddy posted:

necrails posted:

Sort of makes you wonder why this wasn't in place first, you know that cart and horse thing.  

Because that doesn't sell ERR boards...

True! Look at the mad rush made on ERR's remaining inventory. What a great way to sellout the remaining product.

Kind of reminds me of the scare everyone had when they thought the DCS remote would no longer be made. MTH probable sold hundreds (maybe thousands?) of DCS remotes before an official word came down that it was safe (for now).

Reading the statements by Lionel after they made the decision, and even the statement by Scott Mann:

While ERR stuff is very popular, perhaps by volume sales numbers, it did not show on paper that as many individuals would be out off by the initial decision, and laying out the cash for product to not move (other than the ongoing sales to Atlas, 3RD Rail, etc..) did not make fiscal sense.

Scott even mentioned that not all of the previous products would be produced, based on sales volume history, but that might change if enough interest and solid orders were desired.

Reading thru all the related threads again, I lost track of how many people said they've been wanting to upgrade for years, yet hadn't pulled the trigger yet.

 I wonder if the decision would have been different, if those who were sitting on locos for a long time and wanted to upgrade had actually been consistent purchasers.

Lionel/ERR is under no obligation to show us the numbers. However, despite the fact that this is a hobby and emotions get attached, stripped down to the basic realities, these companies sell widgets, and they need to make money selling the widgets.

If their analysis shows that certain product isn't moving at certain levels, and the levels they do move do not create enough revenue, then they have to make the hard decisions.

In my previous life of owning a business that made various products for the medical field, I always had to asses these things.  I have been in a very similar situation.  I made a decision to discontinue a line because it just wasn't selling.    Then I heard from customers that weren't happy with my decision.   I asked them why they hadn't purchased if they really liked and wanted that particular product.   It wasn't price, or quality issues.

It was basically complacency of them thinking this specialized product would always be around.  Sure, I could have gone BTO, but that would have driven the price way up (economy of scale).   I either lose money in labor and unsold inventory to keep a line open, or I lose business by having to raise prices beyond what the client is willing to pay.  I eventually sold off that line, and used the new capital to add another product line to my business.  During that process, there was no way any of the parties involved would publically say who was in negotiations to acquire the rights.  Business 101.

All in all, Lionel said they were working on something, and they would let us know when and if something was in place, and that most likely we'd be happy with the outcome.  Just as with my company, Lionel, nor Scott, publicly discussed their negotiations.   Again, Business 101.

I, too, was saddened to learn of the possible fate of ERR.  However, I know it was a business decision.  Then when Lionel made the statement, I was cool with that, and did what they asked: be patient.

I did not come here every day to chastise the company which seems to be a full time hobby for some.

So how about we give it a rest now, and enjoy the fact that the product, now known to be popular with more people than numbers have shown, will be in capable hands.

I guess I guessed right huh Scott:-).  Glad this saga is over.  G

Mr David; very well said; excellent post on this issue; Falcon70

Matt Makens posted:

This is no surprise. But I do need my ERR refund

Matt,

Refunds were processed Last week, you should receive your funds shortly.  If not received by Monday, contact Ken with the Paypal Transaction ID and he will run it down for you.

Thanks for understanding and your patience.

J Daddy posted:

necrails posted:

Sort of makes you wonder why this wasn't in place first, you know that cart and horse thing.  

Because that doesn't sell ERR boards...

Not true, we did not maneuver the situation to push sales.  Inventory was on the lower side to be sure, and honestly not a single one of us expected to get 6 months of orders in 2 days.  We did expect to see an uptick in orders though, and though we had enough product to cover that case.    We clearly shipped a lot of items, and when we ran out of product - we refunded the orders. 

I am not going to comment on the timing of this transition to 3rd rail, other than we all worked very hard to see things transition for the good of the hobby.  Business arrangements take time.  We should all be happy that the products will continue for years into the future.

Howard is awesome - especially for allowing and making the ERR product continuity happen with 3rd rail, and Scott deserves a big thank you for what he is about to embark on to support the retail availability of the ERR products.  A good day indeed for the hobby. 

Now I am going back to running my trains!

SantaFeFan posted:

I am not going to comment on the timing of this transition to 3rd rail, other than we all worked very hard to see things transition for the good of the hobby.  Business arrangements take time. 

Jon, It doesn't take a crystal ball to figure out that this plan came together quickly and only after everyone expressed their feelings about the closure of ERR. Lionel had to scramble a plan fast and 3rd Rail was a viable option.

SantaFeFan posted:

 We should all be happy that the products will continue for years into the future.

Scott has a slightly different take on the years into the future.

https://ogrforum.com/...10#79142442860018010

sdmann posted:

But if you think we will be making these forever, we won't. Minimums may change, component availability changes and then your up s..t creek. 

But until then, it's full steam ahead.

Scott 

 Regardless, I am happy that Lionel & 3rd Rail worked something out and ERR products have found a good home.

Thanks Jon, I emailed Ken this morning. Was just publicly venting a bit of frustration. It’s not a huge deal but I do like to know where t money is at. 

Paypal says that they will take 5 days to process and refund to your credit card.  It is a matter of policy.  Today or tomorrow you should see the credit on your card.

Got to Paypal and check your account.  That is where I saw the 5 days.

Jan

I am very familiar with PayPal, I’m also well aware that when a refund is abt there is communication regarding the refund from Paypal

I appreciate Lionel and 3rd Rail making this situation work.

I'm not that much into conspiracy theories anyway.

Hi Guys,

I got a message from a fellow TMCC user and installer, I looked through this thread and did not see this posted so I thought why not bring this to light on the OGR forum. It looks like if enough of the ERR boards are ordered that with sufficient orders maybe all the ERR boards may be produced. I hope I am not going to step on anyone's toes but I will paste this to the thread. The link shown will take you to their website and show all that may become available.

Ray

Hi Ray,


Don't know if you had seen this but Scott from 3rd rail is taking reservations for Mini II's Cruise Lite and Switch Commanders. I am going to send this to as many guys I know that want to see these come back so maybe he will have enough orders he will manufacture them.

Hi Folks,

We are setting up now to supply kits to those that have reserved them. We are ordering for the future needs and test marketing to see if we can bring back Mini Commanders, Cruise Lite and Switch Commanders.

If we get sufficient orders we can bring these back. But if we get historically weak orders for these, then they will not be produced. So if you want to see them made, come and put in a reservation now.

http://www.3rdrail.com/err-3rdrail/index.html

We've also added the Railsounds set for Budd Cars and Turbine as these were being offered originally by ERR.

Thank you all for your support to get this off the ground, and happy railroading.

Scott Mann

Ed

MartyE posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

This is interesting!  3rd Rail to distribute ERR Products.

Where have you been?  LOL!   Just kidding John!

Lionel Announcement / 3rd Rail Announcement

Thanks goodness! This works out great, considering I'm going to be buying the MTH Protosound 1 General, and Texas, as well as the Lincoln Funeral Train to turn into the General, the Texas, and the Yonah in their Civil War era appearance during the Great Locomotive Chase! This is gonna be fun!