European tinplate question?

Chris,

Question 1: No, European gauge 1 is equivalent to our gauge 1. G gauge uses the same track gauge but a different scale. But you can rung European gauge 1 on G gauge track if it is Clockwork or live steam and the flanges are not so deep that they hit on the ties. European electric is three rail and can be anywhere from 4 to 12 volts DC or 12 to 55(approx) AC. The last is what is known as high voltage and was originally run through carbon filament light bulbs to knock the line voltage down to around 50 volts or so.

Question 2: European gauge 0 is similar to ours but again it can be Clockwork, steam or electric and the electric can be dc 4-8 volts,dc 12 to 24 volts or it can be ac 15 to 25 volt or high voltage ac around 50 volts. I have some of each and to get the high voltage ones to run I had to put two z transformers in series to get 50v. Each locomotive will have to be checked to see what its operating voltage is.

The good news is that some of the newer Ace trains were switchable for ac or dc, I believe all their production from here out will be 24 volt dc only. If you are looking at old trains most of the Bing electric trains made for this country will work fine on conventional lionel transformers. With Marklin especially from the 30s you must check which motor the train has if it is a 66 series then it is AC if it is a 70 series then it is DC.

Let me know if you need more details or if there is a particular locomotive in question.

Roland

Thanks Rolland. I think I would lean toward newer European tinplate if I decide to pull the trigger at some point. Mike Wolf talked about maybe doing some european tinplate at some point. I'll keep an eye out for that if it happens.

Gargraves make 1 Gauge in both 2 and 3 Rail and also OO.

Hi Chris,

Don't rule out the older European items. Some of them are gorgeous and are part of a long tradition. If you want, just change out transformers as needed or set up a switch to go from one transformer to another. If the track work is good, the power problem is pretty easy to solve. I have recently taken to French Hornby and this has opened up a whole new world for me. Nothing better than diving into something new. Again though, the new ACE and Darstead trains are pretty nice too.

All the best,

Miketg

Great answer, Roland. I never thought of putting two transformers in series to obtain 50V. My solution is to use an isolation variac and an old Lionel circuit breaker. Some of the old high voltage stuff is beautiful and fun to run.

Chris, look at Darstaed. We are going for a mix of tinplate and diecast detailed locos. The 2-6-2 is tinplate, but the Jinty is the start of many new diecast locos. The rolling stock is tinplate, but with diecast detailed trucks and chassis. For example, I pull my Darstaed Pullmans with my brown MTH Chapelon, they look great together.
We are experimenting with DCC too. I'm posting a video to show the Jinty with a simple and cheap Bachmann decoder fitted.

Add ETS to the equation. Some early ETS is still available from Don Thousand at very nice prices. A good place to start and see how you like it.

Steve

Steve, yes ETS is nice and I got some from Don last year. I don't think he has any left though.

Jim,

Just be careful with the Variac. If it is not an isolation type or if you are not running it through an isolation transformer, watch out for the phasing. Make sure that the 0 volt side is 0 volts in reference to ground. If your polarity is reversed there is potentially 120 volts on the outside rails.

I have designed a universal power supply for myself, but I am still trying to line up all the meters and a suitable cabinet. When done it should be able to provide 0-30 volts dc with a reversing switch, and 0-60 volts ac. I will let you know how it turns out.

Roland

quote:

Originally posted by rdigilio:
Jim,

Just be careful with the Variac. If it is not an isolation type or if you are not running it through an isolation transformer, watch out for the phasing.

It is an isolation type...and I tested it to be absolutely certain. It's a wonder that kids used to play with high voltages decades ago.

I always liked Lionel's early setup with the open top glass jars containing water and sulfuric acid connected by lead strips, and that tied to the house lighting circuit! But live steam was too dangerous for little johnny to play with.

Roland

Dave
Not sure what he has left, but I got 3 new cars from Don the other day.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Allen:
Steve, yes ETS is nice and I got some from Don last year. I don't think he has any left though.

Maybe there's some electrical subtlety I'm missing here but:
If one needed to get approximately 50 volts AC and had 25 volts available, why not just feed it into a 2:1 stepdown transformer, "backwards" ? 220 to 110 VAC ones are readily available and can be economically sourced, and of course work just as well at lower voltages, eg using 12 vac to make 24 vac.

With best regards, SZ

Steitzeit,

you are absolutly correct, but when I wanted to test my HV locos, I already had 2 Lionel Z transformers laying around, I didn't have a 220- 110 stepdown. Also for most people wiring one in reverse (i.e. swaping primary for secondary) could be confusing.

Another choice would be to use the same 220 step down wired to the 120 mains to get approx. 60 volts, then all that is needed is a suitable speed control.

My long term plan consists of a 5a variac running a dual 30 volt secondary transformer and using the secondaries in parallel (30v 10a) or series (60v 5a) as needed via switches.

Roland

quote:

Originally posted by rdigilio:
Steitzeit,

you are absolutly correct, but when I wanted to test my HV locos, I already had 2 Lionel Z transformers laying around, I didn't have a 220- 110 stepdown. Also for most people wiring one in reverse (i.e. swaping primary for secondary) could be confusing.

Another choice would be to use the same 220 step down wired to the 120 mains to get approx. 60 volts, then all that is needed is a suitable speed control.

Roland

I. I think it would be preferable for the step-down [ as an -up ] xformer to be wired on the output side of a regular transformer for a couple of reasons:

1) I think it is unwise to recommend that anything on the 'higher voltage' AC mains side be tinkered with; I would always assume that plugging into a wall outlet is the safer case -- especially if "most people" would find wiring the step down > up confusing.

2) One already has the safety device(s) [ circuit breaker, etc ] built into the train transformer, eg, between the 120 and the step up. When testing your work you can also do it at controlled low voltage, eg crack the throttle to 5 v and see if you get 10 at the track.

II. I'm a little rusty on "why" but I believe it's important when using the "two train transformers in series" approach that both be electrically identical, so that just using 'any two transformers might not be a good idea. I think many, if not most, readers have difficulty with phasing, which would be important here.

You give the impression you know what you're doing, of course.

Best, SZ

[/QUOTE]

I. I think it would be preferable for the step-down [ as an -up ] xformer to be wired on the output side of a regular transformer for a couple of reasons:

1) I think it is unwise to recommend that anything on the 'higher voltage' AC mains side be tinkered with; I would always assume that plugging into a wall outlet is the safer case -- especially if "most people" would find wiring the step down > up confusing.

2) One already has the safety device(s) [ circuit breaker, etc ] built into the train transformer, eg, between the 120 and the step up. When testing your work you can also do it at controlled low voltage, eg crack the throttle to 5 v and see if you get 10 at the track.

II. I'm a little rusty on "why" but I believe it's important when using the "two train transformers in series" approach that both be electrically identical, so that just using 'any two transformers might not be a good idea. I think many, if not most, readers have difficulty with phasing, which would be important here.

You give the impression you know what you're doing, of course.

Best, SZ[/QUOTE]

I. You bring up some good points, but it should also be noted that the step down (step up in this case) should be of sufficient capacity to withstand the full output of the supply transformer (i.e. in the case of a Z or ZW 250 - 275 watts).

II. the reason for using identical transformers is because in the event of a heavy load or a short circuit the larger transformer would be able to provide more current than the smaller one might withstand. When I was testing my HV locos on the bench I was using a Z (250 watt) in series with an S (110 w). I would never cosider that setup to run even a temporary layout, I just did not feel like lugging 2 Zs up two flights of stairs. On a layout on a temporary basis I would not be uncomfortable with using the two Zs properly phased and plugged itno a power strip to maintain phasing. For a permanent layout your Idea would work fine, I am planning to build something that will give me the ability to run anything including some of my 4vdc English Marklin and Bing, at the flip of a couple of switches.

You also give the impression that you are no stranger to electricity.

All the best
Roland

quote:

Originally posted by Steve "Papa" Eastman:
Dave
Not sure what he has left, but I got 3 new cars from Don the other day.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Allen:
Steve, yes ETS is nice and I got some from Don last year. I don't think he has any left though.

Steve, I've been talking to Don, he does have a lot of ETS left.

The only thing I have tried to order that he was out of was the 455 CSD Schwarz w/ brakeman's platform. Luckily I picked on up elsewhere for only a few $$$$ more than what Don was selling them for. Next order needs to be a few tank cars.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Allen:
Steve, yes ETS is nice and I got some from Don last year. I don't think he has any left though.

[/QUOTE]Steve, I've been talking to Don, he does have a lot of ETS left.[/QUOTE]