Joe and Bill
Thanks for the comments. It was an interesting project and I learned a lot about Sawdust Burners. I have added a few more pictures 7-9-2023.
Charlie
Post 86 9-9-2023, revised 10-22-2023
Steam Powered Switch Engines Operating on the Layout
There are four Steam Powered Engines available for Operation on my operating and switching layout. They provide lots of fun switching cars around the layout and keep it interesting.
Marx 400 0-4-0 Switcher
The Marx 400 was 50 cent purchased from my go to guy Dave, in Pittsburgh in 1978 and it has the same great running two gear motor as in a Marx 666, 2-4-2, with two position e-Unit reverse. This is a superior motor to the more common motor in Marx 999 2-4-2 engines. Its main short comings is the lack of front coupler and its light weight both which can be cured when I get around to it! The Marx 400 is a smooth running engine.
Lionel 8516 0-4-0 Switcher
This Lionel 8516 is my best 0-4-0 switcher with front and tender operating couplers and operating tender back up light. It has an electronic reversing unit. It was made in 1986-86. I have had switcher since 3-2005. This engine is an upgraded Lionel 8310 from 1973-75.
Lionel 8310 0-4-0 Switcher
Here is a MPC Lionel 8510, 0-4-0 switcher, made for Sears between 1973 to 1975, and I have had since fall of 1991. The tender has an operating coupler. I added backup light on the tender that works all the time and I added front coupling as shown below.
The Lionel 8310 has an ugly front end and no coupler on the front, making it a poor looking and operating switcher to me. See how long the support is for the cow catcher.
In 2020, I decided to make a new front end and add a working coupling like my better 0-4-0 switcher, the Lionel 8516 described earlier and the 8516 front coupler is showed below.
A sketch was made for the new front end and I used a spare operating coupling I had. Some sheet metal and balsa wood scraps were used to assemble the coupler base .
I soldered in the bottom brace.
J B Weld metal filled epoxy setting up with rubber bands holding in position
The hand rail was made from a piece of wire. Whole unit was painted with semi gloss back paint.
Now this is much more handsome and useful 0-4-0 switcher with operating front coupler
Now I have two great 0-4-0 switchers with operating front couplers. The old 8516, 0-4-0, on the left, needs a paint job now as seen below.
Lionel 561 0-8-0 Switcher
In 2020, I picked up a Lionel 561, 0-8-0 engine and coal tender made in 2009. It has operating coupler on the tender, dummy coupler on engine front and a operating tender backup light. It came from eBay with a detached head light and a loose step from the coal tender and the buyer generously compensated me to keep it. The parts were both JB Welded back on. The whistle does not work in the Coal Tender but it may be the diodes in my LW transformers. I do not use coal tender whistles as my layout has two Lionel whistles hidden in open window layout buildings as most of my coal tenders do not have whistles.
Initially the Lionel 561, 0-8-0 has been derailing on a 5 or so of my 31 Marx 1590 switches. The derailments seem to occur when going into the curve on the switch. I believe the issue of derailing on real trains lead to putting a pair or more wheels in front of the driving wheels or make this a 2-8-0 engine. I have fixed most of my Marx switches by bending the frog flange to be closer to the rail. My 2-8-4 Lionel Berkshire 756 runs through the Marx 1590s switches without issues.
I bent the curved rail end to the left shown below. The rotating section bent rail part is on the bottom of picture and touches the straight outside rail on the bottom.
The 561 came with a dummy front coupling. I had a Lionel truck with an operating coupler that had a cracked frame. I cut the operating coupling off the frame and installed it in place of the dummy coupling. It was an easy job. I like my switchers to have operating couplers in front and the tender in the rear. The 561 is a good switcher and runs very slow with its DC motor and good electronic reversing e-unit.
Its Coal Tender is boxy, and is my only one that has a raised part of the coal tender.
The picture above is another shot of Lionel 561, 0-8-0 and tender.
Page 6 on Post 56 3/18/2019 shows two Small Engines Used on the Layout. It shows two 0-4-0 dockside and tank switchers and is copied below to be complete for this post.
There are two are Dockside or tank switchers, 0-4-0 types.
The one below is a 0-4-0 MTH 840 Jersey Central dockside tank switcher. This is a well made, heavy metal body and great running little engine, has couplings on front and back, by far my best small engine.
The second is a 0-4-0 Lionel 8905 dc dockside tank switcher. It is light weight, plastic and dc which I converted to ac by use of bridge rectifier. Only runs in forward as I did not install a reversing switch while adding the rectifier. I like that little smoke stack.
Charlie
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I had fun fixing up the steam power switchers with front couplers and a new front end in the case of the Lionel 8310. These jobs make the switchers better operationally, rewarding the effort.
Charlie
nice job Charlie, and well documented post.
I only have one steam switcher, Lionel 6-18000 B6 switcher. first with railsounds and made in Michigan back in 1989 I believe. nice unit, runs great on my 027 track.
Post 87 11-8-2023
TCA 11-2023 Train Show Finds
My meager TCA, Ponchatoula, LA 11-2023 purchases were six cars for $3 per car. They were a Lionel 2423 silver Lionel Lines Observation car, Lionel 2422 silver Lionel Lines Pullman car, Lionel 6465 two dome Sunoco silver tank car, Lionel 6462 long 9.5 “black NYC gondola, Lionel 3469 Automatic Dump Car, black Lionel Lines, and a Lionel Lines medal flat car, without a number, with stakes and 8” long. The passenger cars lights even worked as well as the dump car. I needed a couple more 2400 passenger cars, long gondola, tank car and another auto dump car.
So it was not that bad of train show.
Charlie
You can see my clip on ammeter in yellow that is moved as needed between LWs
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As usual Charlie you are an astute buyer.
mid be happy with 10 for the pass cars.
York did not have anything at the price I would pay.
Another view of the six $3 cars from the 11-4-2023 TCA Train Show in Ponchatoula, LA
Charlie
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Post 88 1-7-2024
Postwar (1945-1955) Steam Locomotive Weights
Postwar (1945-1955) Steam locomotives pulling power is greatly affected by the weight of the locomotive. Later, some larger postwar locomotives had Magna-Traction which improved pulling power by maybe 20%. In the postwar era traction tires were not available. Steam locomotives can not have dual motors like some diesel engines either. Steam Locomotives with plastic bodies are lighter than metal bodied locomotives and weight can often be added to plastic or metal bodied engines to improve pulling power.
The postwar train guide books like Greenberg's Guides, Doyle's Catalog of Lionel Trains, and McComes & Tuohy's Collector's Guide and History do not report the weights of steam locomotives. My 44 year journey of acquiring steam locomotives turned out to be slowly up grading them with each group being of a higher weight.
For my 027, 50s style layout, started with light Marx 999 2-4-2 and Lionel 249, 2-4-2 engines. I had a small number of cars and needed at least four locomotives to operate my two loops of 2 trains on 1 track system and populate my roundhouse whisker tracks.
A few years later I found the Lionel 2018 2-6-2, to be more powerful and heavier thus I could pull trains with a couple of heavier operating cars and passenger cars. I also acquired at least four of these.
Later I located the Lionel 2026 2-6-4 that I felt was heavier and more powerful than the Lionel 2028 and got four of these.
Next move to the Lionel 2025 and the 2035 with Magna-Traction which became my go to locomotives for pulling my operating car train with several heavy operating cars.
I had acquired an early Lionel 671 6-8-6 turbine locomotive with light bulb smoke but never have run it much as does not have Magna-Traction and growls a lot. Recently I have purchased a Lionel 246, 4-6-4 Baby Hudson and a Lionel 2065, 4-6-4. both with Magna-Traction. These engines are about as large as I can run on my O27 layout with 32 Marx 1590 switches.
I do have newer, not postwar, a Lionel 756, 4-8-4 w/ 2 traction tires and a Lionel 561, 0-8-0 switcher engine w/1 traction tire.
I decided to weigh most of my steam locomotives and made a list of the locomotive and is weight that may be interesting to others as the weight information is not readily available.
Weights of Mostly Postwar Steam Locomotives 1-6-2024
Lionel 8905 0-4-0 docker plastic body, can motor .91 lbs
MTH 840 0-4-0 docker metal body, 2.81 lbs
Lionel 8310 0-4-0 switcher engine metal body 2.78 lbs
Lionel 8516 0-4-0 switcher engine metal body 2.62 lbs
Lionel 1862 4-4-0 General heavy plastic body, 1.68 lbs
Lionel 8004 4-4-0 General, light plastic body, type VII motor 1.50 lbs
Lionel 8005 4-4-0 General, light plastic body, DC can motor 1.22 lbs
Lionel 217 2-4-2 plastic body, 1.83 lbs
Lionel 248, 2-4-2 plastic body, lead weight added 2.38 lbs
Lionel 249, 2-4-2 plastic body, lead weight added 2.26 lbs
Lionel 1110, 2-4-2 metal body 2.98 lbs
Lionel 1130, 2-4-2 metal body, repaint & renumber 111 2.98 lbs
Lionel 2018, 2-6-2 metal body , smoke 3.54 lbs
Lionel 1666 2-6-2 metal body 3.61 lbs
Lionel 2026 2-6-2 metal body, smoke 3.61 lbs
Lionel 2026 2-6-4 metal body, smoke 3.64 lbs
Lionel 2025, 2-6-2 metal body 4.45 lbs
Lionel 2025 2-6-4 metal body, smoke 4.56 lbs
Lionel 2035, 2-6-4 metal body, smoke, w/ Mag Traction 4.43 lbs
Lionel 2046, 4-6-4 metal body, smoke, w/ Mag Traction 4.36 lbs
Lionel 2065, 4-6-4 metal body, smoke, w/ Mag Traction 3.67 lbs
Lionel 671, 6-8-6 metal body, bulb smoke 4.68 lbs
Newer Lionel
Lionel 756, 4-8-4 metal body w/ 2 traction tires 4.82 lbs,
Lionel 561, 0-8-0 metal switcher engine w/ 1 traction tire 2.31 lbs
Other Brand Steam Locomotives
Marx 400, 0-4-0 switcher, plastic body, lead weight added 1.80 lbs
Marx 999, 2-4-2, metal body 1.75 lbs
Marx 666, 2-4-2, metal body 1.19 lbs
Marx 333, 4-6-2, metal body 2.91 lbs plain regular 333?
Marx 333, renumbered 3004, 4-6-2, metal body, weight added 2.93 lbs
Marx 333. Renumbered 3083, 4-6-2, metal body, weight added 3.03 lbs
K Line/Marx 3438, 4-6-2, metal body w/2 traction tire 3.29 lbs
Roundhouse full of Lionel 2035 2-6-4 Locomotives
Charlie
Post 89 3-15-2024
Passenger Cars Added and Run
I added a Marx 3152 Santa Fe tin passenger and a Lionel 2432 Santa Fe passenger car from the junk car box.
I located a Marx 3152 Santa Fe tin passenger car body without trucks or couplings. I found some Marx trucks with wheels and Marx coupling in the spare wheel box and added them. This car is more gold colored than my other three Marx Santa Fe passenger cars. This new car allows a four car train of Marx tin passenger cars.
I also found a Lionel 2432 passenger car body without trucks, roof and frame assembly. I located a Lionel set of long necked coupler passenger car trucks (one with a pickup) in spare wheel box, a frame assembly, a spare Vista dome roof and window strips. I added mini 12 volt Christmas tree sockets and bulbs by installing them on the floor in short pieces of ball point pen shaft as holders. The Lionel later 16000 series passenger cars have light bulbs standing on the floor versus on brackets near the roofs and installing them on the floor let be use lower wattage mini Christmas tree light bulbs.
I can now have a Vista dome car to run with the Lionel 2400 passenger and observation cars I got at the 11-2023 train show and described in post 88 above.
Charlie
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Nice work Charlie. I didn't think that Marx could pull 4 pass cars. I know my 1666 could not.
Post 90 4-23-2024
Addition of Ice Cream Cone to Roof of Frosty Bar
An addition was made to the Plasticville Frosty Bar. A Dairy Queen Ice Cream Toy Whistle was added to the roof of the Frosty Bar. After removing some of the whistles insides, a 12 volt mini light was installed and Frosty Bar with Ice Cream on the roof became the focus of that corner of the layout.
Charlie
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Looks great and its from Dairy Queen that makes it even better.
TrainCzar
Thanks for your prior comment on Marx passenger cars.
Referring to your comment on the Marx 999 or 1666 steam locos pulling four cars, the cars were the Marx 3100s and 2400s light weight tin cars. Plastic Lionel cars are heavier and more of a challenge to pull four of them with small Marx locos.
Charlie
Post 91 6-21-2024
Layout Corner Treatments Currently in Use
With the layout using O27 track and most tracks are close to the layout edges therefore the corner areas are small. Most of my corners are really small allowing only a small building or item. The layout is an L shape giving 5 out side corners and 1 inside corner at the Wye.
One small corner has a Hobo camp site.
Another small corner has a scratch build Lionel 6-12711 Water Tower
This small corner has a Plasticville Frosty Bar with added lighted Ice Cream Cone on top
The major corner has a mountain with two track tunnels in and four track tunnels out. First picture shows two track tunnels IN
Four track tunnels out ( one hidden track Out)
The last corner has a small train station, built by my Dad in 1950 and on our Christmas layout.
The inside corner of the layout has a Wye leaving a triangle shaped area with another Hobo camp.
Charlie
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Post 92 8-8-2024
Remote or Powered Operation of Homemade Turntable
Refer to this topic, Page 1, Post 8d on building "Turntable with pit, Construction & Operation - Homemade and Scratch Built and Inexpensive ($10 !) How to Build Turntable with Pit for $10, any Size and any Where"
If you do not want to place the TT close to the edge of your layout and be restricted by location due to the length of the clothes dryer belt, one can power the turntable with a used junk DC screw driver motor. Junked DC screwdrivers show up often at garage sales and thrifts for a couple of dollars, as it costs a lot to buy new batteries and is often cheaper to buy a new tool.
Picture of a junk, heavy duty, DC powered screwdriver I have. It is a Black & Decker 8.4 volt dc motor, with chuck, and a very strong, heavy battery powered screwdriver. The number ring must be for tension adjustment. The B&D screwdriver was tested and ran from 2 to 8 volts DC on a HO transformer.
The screwdriver motor can be powered with a small cheap HO DC transformer in both directions or AC transformer with diodes. This would be easy to power the TT with a shorter belt and pulley on the screwdriver and the the TT could be located anywhere on your layout.
The diagram below shows how to wire a DC powered screwdriver with AC accessory transformer (or other AC variable speed transformer) by using two 3A, 50 volt diodes to convert the AC to DC. A HO, DC transformer could also be used without the diodes. This circuit is derived from David Smith's article on building a Homemade Transfer Table in CTT, issue Oct 2009.
Notice above, the Right Angle Socket adapter that allows the screwdriver to be in the horizontal position, was required for the six inch depth of my control panel when on the floor. The Right Angle Socket adapter can be eliminated if more room exists to allow the screwdriver to be mounted vertically. A means must be provided to firmly anchor the screwdriver and right angle socket adapter to a position that allows them to align with the TT belt. The 1 inch diameter pulley attaches to the cloths dryer belt that turns the TT. A 1 inch diameter belt may be too large as the homemade VEE pulley (number 5 picture above) on my hand crank is about 1/2 inch diameter and was made from two brass grommets.
Picture of Hand Crank Vee pulley made from radio tuner shaft coupling (seen with the set screws showing) and brass grommets. Dryer belt is shown in red, around the Vee pulley.
Charlie
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Post 93
Re-titling this Topic "Building and Evolution of a Railroading Focused 50’s Post War 027 Lionel Train Layout"
The title of this topic has been revised to better convey the Objectives of this Railroading Lionel Train Layout. The new title is "Building and Evolution of a Railroading Focused 50’s Post War 027 Electric Train Layout". This title emphasis this is not a looping and scenic layout like most model train layouts seen in magazines, model train forums, train shows, display layout, etc.
This layout is attempting to show the purposes of real railroads like train switching, engine changing, for maintenance and storage, engine and coal tender servicing, transporting and loading and unloading commodities and passengers, making up and dispersing train cars into and from trains, dispatching and operating up to five trains simultaneously,
Adapting the operations of real railroads gives the one to three operating engineers of this model railroad layout tasks and items to do to keep up interest and challenges for the engineers for the present and long term coming days. This model railroad is over 46 years old. Knowing of all the operating options available on this railroading layout, the engineers work will be his to chose.
The below summary from the Page 1, Post 1 of this topic shows the objectives and some of the operating capabilities of this railroading focused 50's era, 027 Lionel train layout.
"A major objective of this layout was to make the track plan and layout active and challenging and operate more like a real railroad. It will not be a simple looping, monotonous and boring layout where interest is quickly lost. Most display type layouts have great scenery and craftsmanship but have several single loops running several trains and no track switches or even a way to reverse the direction of the trains on the loops. They hold ones interest for 30 minutes max but do not require much if any attention of the engineers. This type of layout will not hold the interest of the viewers and operators long at all and is not the layout I want to build.
This layout was designed as a model railroad doing railroad operations to keep the engineers busy with operation, switching, reversing, coupling and uncoupling, operating multiple trains and includes many operating accessories, all to keep up interest in running and watching trains and improving the layout. 2 of the 3 loops have double revering loops and the outside loop has a Wye to allow lots of options to reverse trains. Five trains can be operated with four having 2 trains on 1 track system. The layout has three Lionel LW transformers, two active track diagram control panels and can be operated by 1 to 3 engineers. The layout has 31 Marx switches and 18 uncoupling/operating track sections for lots of train operating options. An operating homemade turntable and round house's associated TT whisker tracks will allow reversal of engines and storage and selection of locos, and was desired and planned into the layout from conception. The layout has over a dozen operating accessories, including a Lionel Railroad Gantry Crane, that provide action and a purposes and jobs for the trains to serve. Another objective was to have fun building, operating and sharing the layout with others specially young children."
Photo below illustrating the compactness of the layout: an area of my layout, where the two train board join creating an L shaped Layout, shows 11 Marx 1590 Switches, including my new Wye at the bottom
Charlie
Thanks for the nice work and the thorough indexing in the first post. IMO, this is one of the most operationally interesting postwar layouts I've seen.
Hey @Allan Miller, what do you think about putting this into the magazine so that it's documented for posterity? It would also be very useful if a version of the track plan could be published that uses Lionel O-gauge track components.
Charlie, the name change does reflect the real nature of your layout! I agree with Mallard that this layout is not like the traditional postwar layouts. It is a Railroad in miniature in every sense.
I will second the idea of an article!
Fellows, thanks for the kind comments. Operational choices of the layout are many requiring lots of engineer attention.
Photo below shows part of TT, the oval and figure 8, to the left, on main train board and dog bone on new train board and many of the 31 track switches plus the Gantry Crane to the left and turntable to the bottom.
Charlie
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Post 6 below has been updated on page 1 and appears here below for your continence.
Post 6 9-27-2024
Basic Layout Track Plans and Real Railroad Layout Track Plan, Operating Capabilities and Features
There are “Four basic types of layout track plans – Type A, the point to point road, is the closest to a real railroad. Type B, is also point to point but has a reversing loop on each end. Type C, is a continuous loop. Type D, is home to back, often used when space is greatly restricted. Having decided on the type of layout that fits your needs and space- or a combination of two types--“ From” Model Railroading 5th ed.” by Lionel Corp Staff
“Virtually all Model railroad track plans fall into one of the four basic categories or some combination of the four. Despite the complexity of the track work on a completed layout, the overall scheme will incorporate one or more of these basic plans, which include the closed loop, the dogbone, the figure eight and the point-to-point.” From “Getting Started with Lionel Trains” by Allan W. Miller
Critique: A figure 8 is a folded loop. But when a figure eight is inside a loop with four switches, reversing trains in both directions can be done
After reviewing these two descriptions of basic layout track plans, I decided my competed L layout track plan is combination of multiple closed loops, the dogbone, the figure eight and the point to point. I also concluded my layout has many features of railroading and operating track plans and my layout includes the below features.
Real Railroad Layout Track Plan, Operating Capabilities and Features
A real railroading focused model railroad layout was designed for doing railroad operations to keep the engineers busy with operation, switching, reversing, coupling and uncoupling, operating multiple trains and includes many operating accessories, all to keep up interest in running and watching trains and improving the layout. This layout track plan incorporates all the expanded basic track plan categories used for model train layouts. Conventional control with 3 LW transformers and 1 to 3 engineers is used. The layout has three interconnected loops and can make an L shaped loop allowing looping of trains. The plan has an oval and figure 8 and a double dog bone giving four ways to reverse trains. Multiple trains can be operated by 1 to 3 engineers on three loops with three transformers. Five trains can be operated with two loops having 2 trains on 1 track systems. The layout can be operated in a point to point manner and has a PTP trolley track. It has several bypass tracks which can serves to park trains and serve as sidings. The layout has a turntable to reverse locomotives and spur and whisker tracks to store them. The outside loops have a Wye to allow reversing of trains. The outside loop has a bypass hidden track to allow trains disappear and reappear or store hidden trains. The layout has three bridges. The layout has 31 remote controlled track switches, 21 uncoupling/operating track sections and 16 operating accessories including Gantry Crane. This layout is portable. It does not have an elevated track yet. All in a Main Board 11ft – 2 in X 5ft - 9in, by New Figure 8 board 7ft – 6 in X 4ft – 7 in Layout.
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Main Figure 8 Board 11ft – 2 in X 5ft - 9in,
New Dogbone Board 7ft – 6 in X 4ft – 7 in
I concluded my completed L layout has many features of railroading and operating track plans. This a unique track plan and layout, build at an inexpensive cost using simple construction methods that can be duplicated by most anyone. Operation of this layout is challenging and will keep the 1 to 3 engineers joyfully busy doing real railroading tasks. This layout includes the below features.
Completed L Layout Operational Capabilities and Features
Conventional Track Control with 3 Lionel LW transformers
Multiple Interconnected loops w/ outside loops forming L shape loop
Dogbone - allows reversing in both directions
Figure Eight combined with a loop and four switches allowing reversing in both directions and allows figure 8 running without switching
Point to Point operation, including PTP trolley system
Wye to allow turning around trains on outer loops
Spurs and sidings
Bypass siding tracks which can serves to park trains and serve as sidings
Bypass hidden track to allow trains disappear and reappear or store hidden trains and hidden storage
Remote operated isolated track sections to store trains or cars on all rails except track switches
Remote operated track switches, 31
Remote operated uncoupling/operating track sections, 21
Track Diagram Control Panels to find and operate track switches, uncoupling and isolated track sections
Multiple train operation w/ 3 LW transformers, 1 to 3 engineer’s, 1 to 5 train operation
Two loops have 2 trains on 1 track systems allowing five trains to be operated
Operating Turntable to turn engines around
TT Whisker or spur tracks to store engines and cars
Bridges - Three – 1 plate & 2 girder bridges
Tunnels in Mountain - two ports in and four ports out
16 Operating Accessories including Remote Control Portal Gantry Crane
Portable Layout construction to allow moving and/or storing layout
NO Elevated tracks
NO Transfer Table
NO Trestle
Charlie
