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When you guys say use CA are you guys using plasti-zap? I build balsa airplanes so I have a lot of CA laying around but when I went to my hobby store they said if I'm glueing plastic you need plasti-zap. 

As for the Windows they aren't in the cab. Luckily you don't need to glue them into place. Looks like they just swivel on the mount.  Hopefully I will hear something from Lionel on Monday about the Windows.

 

The MU hose on the front of these ES44ACs have been problematic.  We all love these separately applied details and I am pretty certain they, for the most part, are attached properly while they are being made.  The difficulty is that they don't make it that way to our front porch in that same condition.  China is a long ways away and not just a simply ferry ride.  They go from box to case, case to pallet, pallet to container, container to truck, truck to ship and then the reverse.  Add in home delivery and our wonderful, expensive locomotives have gone for quite the rough ride. 

My thinking is that Lionel needs to put more engineering effort into the packaging.  Many of my diesels arrive with the ability to move slightly front to back inside the white styrofoam bedding.  Tuck them in a little tighter and I'll bet we see less of these problems.

Last edited by Steims

To be sure, the more practical solution for many is to try to fix it yourself. But that does not mean it's not right to be upset by this. These engines are quite expensive (with the MSRP having leapt $100 in one year for the exact same model), and with that sort of price comes corresponding responsibility. 

That these engines get shipped across the world is no excuse. The manufacturers/importers are well aware of the risks of this business model and need to pack and inspect accordingly. That so many people report similar problems seems to be a clear sign that Lionel is cutting corners at the customer's expense.  

Personally, I too would just fix it, given the risk and cost of sending it back. But I'd also be particularly cautious about future purchases. If you pay a top price, you deserve a top product. 

Last edited by Chris Dunn

I used a product from BSI (Bob Smith industries) called Maxi-Cure. It is extra thick, dries in 10-25 seconds and is for plastics and wood. Comes in a 1oz bottle. redish / pinkish label.  Might have on the label Cyanoacrylate.

I use this for everything. My local hobby shop carries it. Not to expensive. I put a drop on each end of the hose and held it in place with needle nose pliers. I could of made the job easier by simply twisting the truck, removing it, re glue then re install. The needle nose plier operation worked well.

I would get this BSI Mai-Cure, use a small pin to apply the glue then hold it in place.  

Count me as another ES44AC with a detached MU hose. Mine was laying in the box. I will glue it back myself. I try to avoid sending locomotives back to Lionel unless I can't fix it myself, for fear of more shipping damage. Seems like quality control and adequate packing need a lot more effort from Lionel. Another quality control example was when I opened my Vision Line Big Boy. In the bottom of the box loose was one of my collector assemblies. Apparently the person responsible for attaching this had the wrong size screw, it was too short. Instead of getting the proper size screw they chose to leave the assembly unattached and loose in the box. This made my Big Boy unable to run right out of the box because of a $.10 screw. I took a screw off my JLC Big Boy to get the Vision Line Big Boy running and will ask Lionel for another screw. Even the Vision Line Big Boy had quality control issues.

C W Burfle posted:

I think Palallin is on the right track. New items that are perfect, including model trains, are fairly rare. It's often easier to just fix the small stuff and go on. Who knows if the replacement will be any better?

To me this line of thinking is unbelievable. Today's trains are certainly premium priced, I could not imagine accepting defective / damaged merchandise as new.

If the part that's broken off is a small detail part, that seems to be fairly commonplace....at least, I see it all the time. If it's a matter of just gluing something back in place, it's certainly less hassle than returning the item and waiting for a replacement. I've experienced situations where the replacement had problems as well. Going back decades, I've seen many, many engines new in the box from all manufacturers with small parts problems. To me, cosmetic issues are unacceptable, but as to little parts the come off and can be fixed, while it's irritating, it's a common enough problem that it's better to just accept it and fix it.

Of course, if it's a major part that's broken, or an internal problem with operation, that's obviously different, and it needs to be resolved by the manufacturer or dealer. 

AlanRail posted:

The hose is part of the truck casting. CA glue may work but why not send it back for a perfect truck assembly.

These hoses should have been designed as pop in pieces with  coller castings.

I was thinking about sending it in but I don't want to pay for shipping and I feel that something else is going to break sending it to and from Lionel. The hose piece doesn't bother me as much as the missing windows. I feel that this engine should have never left the factory. 

That may be kind of harsh. People have a life beyond reading the OGR forum...maybe not me. And also it's kind of hard to get jumped on and feel comfortable to jump in. After all, I got answers like "loosen the screws" from the manufacturer.

I think what we are seeing is an evolution of the Lionel hobby, and other manufacturers for sure, where the product is complex, highly detailed, and expensive to be sending the stuff around the country to fix something minor. If someone is unable to fix it, then Lionel has never failed to help as far as my experience goes. If the dealer can suggest a fix and the buyer is able, it's the most efficient solution. I see something like a 10% margin for the dealers selling at street price, and Mr. Muffin I don't think has the top deal some of the bigger dealers have. It's nice to have a local shop...

My dad and I collected Lionel post war trains back in the early 1970s. I got back into the 3-rail hobby a few months ago. I love the fact there are now several manufacturers offering highly-detailed trains for us to empty our bank accounts on.  On the downside, 90% of what I have now has been purchased through mail order, and I can say that 40% of the merchandise I received has been damaged in some way from shipping. I've had a couple of engines that were obviously dropped. And there is almost always a loose plastic part or two that falls out of the packaging.

I now have an unpacking ritual. I open any item from their factory boxes over a white towel or sheet so that any parts that fall out are easier to see and won't get lost. I then have a tube of super glue handy to re-attach any wayward parts. I'll also take the shell off of a new engine to make sure everything is attached and sorted inside.  This is especially true if there's any exterior damage visible to the engine. After everything is reassembled and oiled, I take it to my test layout for a spin.  So far, I haven't had anything I couldn't repair myself.

I haven't had to deal with Lionel yet, but MTH doesn't seem to stock any parts beyond a few things common to their whole product line (e.g. trucks, light bulbs, etc.). It's frustrating, but I'd rather do the quick repairs I've had to make myself than spend weeks/months trying to get minor stuff fixed through the RMA process only to find the parts needed or an entire replacement is not available.

Forget the sample tube of smoke fluid. Include a tube of superglue instead--much more practical if you ask me.  

Expensive items like these do go through QA. I am positive Lionel will issue a RMA to fix, repair or replace. It is in the warranty. Yes, we as consumers we should not have to send it back. Dealers are part of the distribution channel. These are BTO so let's let Steve work with this. He may not have any of these left. Searching the Internet to day and I was not able to find a BNSF ES44's. Lionel will stand behind the product. 

Other than Atlas O _ who has parts, you will get it back in under a week. I had an engine in MTH for 9 months and the only reason it got repaired was because I hounded them for a date, which they missed. 10 month turn around - that doesn't happen at Lionel.

QA might need an upgrade given the prices but the more detailed hand applied parts sometimes things happen. Maybe better packing would work.

K

I'm not a tinkerer. It feels more like the price we pay for having highly-detailed trains manufactured overseas and shipped here.  I've built several custom, water-cooled computers that I've overclocked the daylights out of (frying expensive parts a few times), before I got back into trains. Because of that, I've already been acclimated to the we-don't-have-any-spare-parts-because-everything-is-made-in-asia-now problem with suppliers of high-end computer parts. If it ever does become too much of a hassle, then I'll have to re-evaluate things. So far, I've had a lot of fun running trains down on the San Diego 3-Railers layout and interacting with visitors to the model railroad museum. Makes it all worth it.

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