Finally broke down and bought a Legacy setup

Deputy posted:

Been using the MTH system and it has been working well for me. Throwing the dice and have a new Legacy Control system being delivered today. If you guys could help, I have some questions to ask about it:

#1 I remember a lot of problems with the Legacy losing contact with the base. Was that fixed?

#2 Also remember a problem with the charger in the base getting extremely hot. Lots of guys were just using akaline batteries instead of the charger. Was that ever fixed? Is the in-base charger working okay now?

#3 Is the speed displayed in MPH or is it still in bars?

#4 Is there a date where Lionel updated the system. Enclosed is a pic of the factory shipping box. Any way of telling if this unit is a new/upgraded unit or should I assume it is not?

#5 How picky is Lionel about where you bought the unit? I bought it off e-Bay. It is factory sealed in the original box. Will they still service it and update it for free if it needs updating or will I have to pay?

Thanks in advance,
Dep

 

I'm relatively new, but have been running both DCS and Legacy since last year.

#1 never ever lost signal with the base. Even at our club track walking around roughly 50 feet. Heck it even works in the back room area behind the club main room through a wall.

#2 Yes, the charging still gets hot. I turned my charging off and now use an external charger since I need batteries for all the remotes (DCS, Legacy, Lionchief, and my Z4000 remote now) so I used a Duracell brand set of charger and AA and AAA batteries. The in base charger can work and I was using it, but yes, charging does get warm.

#3 Only MTH shows scale MPH. Lionel is just a series of bars.

#4 You'll have to fire it up to check software versions.

I cannot speak on Lionel servicing it or sending in for updates, but as long as it's not an early, early unit, you can self software update. It's not that hard. What made it even easier for me is I got the LCS Wifi module, and that made writing the memory modules over wireless just one of the easiest things to do. Otherwise, you need a serial cable- maybe to USB for your computer. Or- a friend who can write the 2 modules for you and loan them for you to just plug in and let it update. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I_NYel1D6Q

Thanks Jetguy! Appreciate getting back to me so quickly. Guess I won't know how early a unit it is until I get it unpacked. I had zero problems with the MTH unit. Hope I have that same kind of luck with Legacy. 

Answers embedded.

Deputy posted:

Been using the MTH system and it has been working well for me. Throwing the dice and have a new Legacy Control system being delivered today. If you guys could help, I have some questions to ask about it:

#1 I remember a lot of problems with the Legacy losing contact with the base. Was that fixed?

I know of no massive issue with the CAB2 losing contact with the base, however it can happen as you are sharing the 2.4ghz frequency spectrum with a host of other consumer devices, including WiFi.  The usual cure is to change the Legacy channel, you have nine channels available.  FWIW, it's no worse than the MTH TIU in that regard, at least in my experience.

#2 Also remember a problem with the charger in the base getting extremely hot. Lots of guys were just using akaline batteries instead of the charger. Was that ever fixed? Is the in-base charger working okay now?

It still gets warmer than I like, so I charge mine in a #993 charging base, no problem at all there.  There were issues with the charger, that's one of the major issues I had with all of mine.

#3 Is the speed displayed in MPH or is it still in bars?

Pretty sure the MTH has cornered the market in using scale MPH with some sort of patent, so it's still in relative terms.  I've never had any issue with how the speed is displayed, but YMMV.

#4 Is there a date where Lionel updated the system. Enclosed is a pic of the factory shipping box. Any way of telling if this unit is a new/upgraded unit or should I assume it is not?

You can pretty well assume that it's not upgraded, but the upgrade is pretty easy.  Once you fire it up, you can check what the versions in the CAB2 and command base are.  Current are 1.61 for the CAB2 and 1.60 for the command base.

#5 How picky is Lionel about where you bought the unit? I bought it off e-Bay. It is factory sealed in the original box. Will they still service it and update it for free if it needs updating or will I have to pay?

An answer only Lionel can give.  They won't update it if it's 1.20 or later, that's up to the user.  The original 1.00 command base had to go back for a factory update to allow future updates to be done in the field.

Thanks in advance,
Dep

I think I see a date of December 2007 on your carton? If it's factory sealed, it's going to need updates. 

And, Lionel does want their items purchased from their authorized dealers, for warranty work. If that was a locomotive, it would be out of warranty just because of the actual build date. Don't know about a Legacy system

Regardless , have fun with it.

WOW, 2007, that may have to go back to Lionel for the first upgrade!

I am in need of finally getting the Legacy system so I can learn how to properly use it consistently in confidence in CAB1 mode for my 3rd Rail Engines.  The club doesn't have the old TMCC controllers anymore and I don't operate enough there to learn it well.  I have an E8 that needs a reprogramming at some point also. 

Don't own a Legacy locomotive, but still need to know how to operate it!

Jonathan (GG1 4877),

I read your entry and thought I should share my experience with switching to Legacy from the old TMCC concerning ERR equipped engines including 3rd Rail products. I found that on some models the horn will not blow with the Legacy system.  I have three or four engines including my new E8s that have this strange problem.  They work just fine with the old antenna equipped hand held system, but not with Legacy.  Anyone else experience this?  Earl    

Well horsefeathers. No little silver dot on the base OR the remote. So it needs to go in to Lionel. I sent them an e-mail asking for an RMA number. I have read in a few places that Lionel will upgrade the base no matter what as long is it is 1.00. I sure hope so. Forgetabout a receipt. I didn't buy it from a Lionel dealer and the person I bought it from bought it a LONG time ago (2007 as EBT JIM spotted) and the receipt is probably dust now. I know for sure the seller doesn't have it. I guess I will be a test case for this kind of situation. Just my luck. 

Deputy,

Please keep us posted. I'm in the same boat that you are, except I purchased mine more recently. But right now, it is packed away.

Chris

LVHR

Will do Chris. If I don't have an e-mail by 10AM tomorrow, I'm gonna call them.

I think they'll update it, they've been pretty good about keeping the Legacy systems running.  Tends to make it possible to run new Legacy locomotives.

can a person pay lionel to update it?

John: I sure hope you are right. 

WB: I have no doubt Lionel would take money to update it. I'd prefer NOT to have to pay them. 

Pretty sure they'll do that update for free.  I had one that was years old, and I sent it in a few years ago to get updated.

Just got off the phone with Lionel. VERY nice folks there. They asked me nothing about when I bought it. Just my phone number and address. They will be e-mailing the RMA number and all the other info on how to return it. And when it comes back, it will be upgraded to the NEWEST version. No need to fiddle around with the 1.3 modules. John...you were 100% right. No problem at all. 

...nice... 

Mark in Oregon

I thought it would be smooth.  Lionel is doing a smart thing, making sure that the Legacy system is fully functional, that removes one roadblock to buying new Legacy equipment.

Well it's on it's way to Lionel. One thing I might mention. This was in the e-mail they sent me:

Dear ******* ******,
This confirmation letter is to confirm your specific return Authorization Number for the above referenced item(s). Return
Authorization Numbers are issued for warrantable product repair or replacement. Lionel is committed to providing you with the best
service in the industry. We will make every attempt to repair and return your item in a prompt manner. Typically the current lead
time on repairs is approximately 3 weeks. This is an estimation based on information available to us at this time.
When returning a product to the Customer Service Department for repair you must write the RA number boldly on the outside of
the package near the shipping label. If the RA Number is not placed on the package it may delay the repair and return of your
product. You must also enclose a copy of the original sales receipt from an AUTHORIZED LIONEL DEALER. Please enclose an
envelope with a detailed note explaining the problem you are having, a copy of the dated original sales receipt AND your daytime
contact number (in the event a technician needs to speak to you). FAILURE TO ENCLOSE THIS INFORMATION MAY RESULT IN
YOUR PRODUCT BEING RETURNED WITHOUT REPAIR or worse, not returned at all!

Me again. I wrote that dang RMA number ALL OVER the box I sent it in . I was a bit disturbed about that part "You must also enclose a copy of the original sales receipt from an AUTHORIZED LIONEL DEALER." 

Deputy posted:

Well it's on it's way to Lionel. One thing I might mention. This was in the e-mail they sent me:

Dear ******* ******,
This confirmation letter is to confirm your specific return Authorization Number for the above referenced item(s). Return
Authorization Numbers are issued for warrantable product repair or replacement. Lionel is committed to providing you with the best
service in the industry. We will make every attempt to repair and return your item in a prompt manner. Typically the current lead
time on repairs is approximately 3 weeks. This is an estimation based on information available to us at this time.
When returning a product to the Customer Service Department for repair you must write the RA number boldly on the outside of
the package near the shipping label. If the RA Number is not placed on the package it may delay the repair and return of your
product. You must also enclose a copy of the original sales receipt from an AUTHORIZED LIONEL DEALER. Please enclose an
envelope with a detailed note explaining the problem you are having, a copy of the dated original sales receipt AND your daytime
contact number (in the event a technician needs to speak to you). FAILURE TO ENCLOSE THIS INFORMATION MAY RESULT IN
YOUR PRODUCT BEING RETURNED WITHOUT REPAIR or worse, not returned at all!

Me again. I wrote that dang RMA number ALL OVER the box I sent it in . I was a bit disturbed about that part "You must also enclose a copy of the original sales receipt from an AUTHORIZED LIONEL DEALER." 

DON'T Worry about the Original Sales Receipt !!  This is what I call a "FORM" Letter that they send out to all the repairs with a RA#.  In this last few Months I have sent in 990's from a Friend that had his in storage for 5 Years, Mine Which I have had for 8 Years and the "Clubs" that we have had for over two years!  They always come thru!!!!  In fact the last one I sent in they had it back to me in less than TWO Weeks!!  Don't fret!!!

AND, they have never charged me to Repair them!!! KUDOS to "LIONEL TRAINS"!!

FREDSTRAINS

I don't think I have receipts for any of my Legacy stuff now.  I used to have one for my original #990 set, but when I searched for the scan, it was nowhere to be found.  It must have gotten lost in one of my data purges.   The locomotives run out of warranty real quick, so once they're working properly, I figure by the time I break them, I'll have to fix them anyway.

Deputy posted:

Been using the MTH system and it has been working well for me. Throwing the dice and have a new Legacy Control system being delivered today. If you guys could help, I have some questions to ask about it:

#1 I remember a lot of problems with the Legacy losing contact with the base. Was that fixed?

#2 Also remember a problem with the charger in the base getting extremely hot. Lots of guys were just using akaline batteries instead of the charger. Was that ever fixed? Is the in-base charger working okay now?

#3 Is the speed displayed in MPH or is it still in bars?

#4 Is there a date where Lionel updated the system. Enclosed is a pic of the factory shipping box. Any way of telling if this unit is a new/upgraded unit or should I assume it is not?

#5 How picky is Lionel about where you bought the unit? I bought it off e-Bay. It is factory sealed in the original box. Will they still service it and update it for free if it needs updating or will I have to pay?

Thanks in advance,
Dep

 

Well guys

My first foray into the Legacy system was back in 2012? I think, but Yes I had issues, but mostly due to the 50hz we have in the Uk I now have version 1.6 on the base and controller, yes the base does get warm when its charging the batteries, so every so often I turn the charger off until the battery indicator shows two bars.

the speed display is in Bars, but with a reference to the manual you can roughly get the the speed?

I buy all my lionel trains and bits and pieces through Train world good service so far. Lionel Service is undergoing through some changes, so not as good as it was when I first caught the O scale bug. ( From Ericstrains on youtube)

The System works fine as far as I can tell, even though I have had it a fair while now, occasionally it does "Glitch" but a quick power off and all is well. the windows system Utility for legacy is great but remember to purchase the recommended usb to serial port converter. Another addition you may need is the Sensor track, as this will update the controller if a legacy locomotive passes over it. (1.6 for fuel display) I love the system, better than my friends DCC. All I can say is Enjoy

happy modelling 

Ernie UK

I'll keep everyone informed of the progress of the update. Sure nice to hear Lionel isn't picky about the receipt for the Legacy. 

Just checked the Fed Ex tracking and it was delivered to Lionel today. Yay! 

Fredstrains posted:

Deputy posted:

Well it's on it's way to Lionel. One thing I might mention. This was in the e-mail they sent me:

Dear ******* ******,
This confirmation letter is to confirm your specific return Authorization Number for the above referenced item(s). Return
Authorization Numbers are issued for warrantable product repair or replacement. Lionel is committed to providing you with the best
service in the industry. We will make every attempt to repair and return your item in a prompt manner. Typically the current lead
time on repairs is approximately 3 weeks. This is an estimation based on information available to us at this time.
When returning a product to the Customer Service Department for repair you must write the RA number boldly on the outside of
the package near the shipping label. If the RA Number is not placed on the package it may delay the repair and return of your
product. You must also enclose a copy of the original sales receipt from an AUTHORIZED LIONEL DEALER. Please enclose an
envelope with a detailed note explaining the problem you are having, a copy of the dated original sales receipt AND your daytime
contact number (in the event a technician needs to speak to you). FAILURE TO ENCLOSE THIS INFORMATION MAY RESULT IN
YOUR PRODUCT BEING RETURNED WITHOUT REPAIR or worse, not returned at all!

Me again. I wrote that dang RMA number ALL OVER the box I sent it in . I was a bit disturbed about that part "You must also enclose a copy of the original sales receipt from an AUTHORIZED LIONEL DEALER." 

DON'T Worry about the Original Sales Receipt !!  This is what I call a "FORM" Letter that they send out to all the repairs with a RA#.  In this last few Months I have sent in 990's from a Friend that had his in storage for 5 Years, Mine Which I have had for 8 Years and the "Clubs" that we have had for over two years!  They always come thru!!!!  In fact the last one I sent in they had it back to me in less than TWO Weeks!!  Don't fret!!!

AND, they have never charged me to Repair them!!! KUDOS to "LIONEL TRAINS"!!

FREDSTRAINS

Fred,

Our new 990 doesn't work and they want the purchase receipt to go there with it and the RMA#.

Bobby: Are you saying that based on the person you talked to on the phone, or on the paperwork they sent you? Is your 990 a recent purchase and from a Lionel dealer? I bought my 990 a few years ago and no longer have the sales receipt and the place I bought it from is out of business. So it is impossible for me to supply a receipt.

BobbyD posted:

Our new 990 doesn't work and they want the purchase receipt to go there with it and the RMA#.

If it's a new one, what's the problem?  Send them a copy of the receipt.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

BobbyD posted:

Our new 990 doesn't work and they want the purchase receipt to go there with it and the RMA#.

If it's a new one, what's the problem?  Send them a copy of the receipt.

John, works for the new one.

Not so much the 5 year old one with the scrambled graphics on the screen, lost that receipt in a move.

So far I've just sent them in and they've fixed them.  Hopefully, they're still doing that.  I don't think I have a receipt for any of them anymore.

Well I had no recent and hopefully they will do mine. They have it in their hands now. I am encouraged by the fact they sent me an RMA number AND paid the postage. I don't think they would go through that effort just to say no and send it back.

Well today makes 7 days since they took delivery of my Legacy system. Not a peep from Lionel . Not sure if that is a good or bad sign. I didn't even get an e-mail confirmation from them saying they have it in their hands. To say I am "feeling uneasy" is an understatement. 

Update: Called Lionel today just to verify that they received the 990. I never got an e-mail confirmation that they received it. So the gentleman on the phone checked the RA number and verified it was checked in and being worked on. Whew! Thank goodness! Now I just wait. 

16 days and counting. Nothing in e-mail. 

Update: Still nothing from Lionel. Almost a month now since I sent it in. No phone calls. No e-mails. Nothing. I will wait until 11/7 and give them a call for a progress report.

One thing that I find rather odd...you would think that, after more than a decade since it's release, Lionel would have a fairly large stock of Legacy systems in their warehouse. It's not like this is the first year of it's release and they are hard to find or purchase. Heck, E-bay and other sources are flooded with them. I wonder why Lionel doesn't just grab a new one and send it out to those that return obvious new ones for upgrade? Mine still had the protective covers over the clear plastic to prevent scratches. If they wanted, I could have sent it back in the ORIGINAL shipping box with all the plastic wrappings, UNOPENED. Just seems strange to me that that they make people with brand new units wait for them to be repaired. I dunno. 

Hi all. Today I called Lionel to find out what the status was of the upgrade to my #990 Legacy setup. I hadn't heard one peep from Lionel in e-mail or phone calls about anything. The gentleman I spoke to was very nice and told me everything is done with the upgrade and it was already shipped with FedEx. He said I should receive it on Monday. I thanked him and wished him a nice day. Have to say I am not overjoyed with communications from Lionel. If I hadn't called today, there's a good chance I would have missed the delivery on Monday. Not good, considering the scumbag people that drive around in my neighborhood.

Hope the upgrade was done well. I will report back after testing it. 

Dep

Well good news. Yesterday FedEx showed up with my 990 Legacy system. Here is what it says on the included message:

"Updated software to v 1.60; charging upgrade; tested range; serial, and charging circuit."

I haven't tested anything yet. That will probably happen soon, though. Overall i am happy with the length of time it took to get everything fixed. The only negative I have is with their communications during the upgrade. It was nil. I had to call twice to find out what was going on. I know Lionel doesn't like getting phone calls, but if that is the case, they should keep the customer in the loop for what is going on. I don't expect a daily update, but at least every two weeks. 

Anyway, I am glad it is back and that is all done. Thanks for the posts letting me know what to expect I appreciate them.

Dep

You call or have a tech update you and that takes 2-3 minutes multiple that by everyone else that wants an update and nothing gets done. Updates would be nice but I'd rather them being getting things done. 

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. 

MartyE posted:

You call or have a tech update you and that takes 2-3 minutes multiple that by everyone else that wants an update and nothing gets done. Updates would be nice but I'd rather them being getting things done. 

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. 

That's all fine and dandy. EXCEPT...Lionel has this on their Legacy Upgrade website:

"You will receive an email the day your Legacy System arrives, notifying you that it has been received in good order. Once your system has been upgraded and validated, you will receive a second email notifying you the upgrade is complete, and your system is being returned to you. This email will have a UPS tracking number included, so you can track your package on-line."

I did NOT receive any e-mail when it arrived at Lionel. I had to call to verify. I did NOT receive the second e-mail notifying me the upgrade is complete, nor did I receive the FEDEX tracking number. I had to call to find all that out after a month of waiting. If I didn't call, I wouldn't know squat about it arriving this weekend. And I still didn't get a tracking number. If Lionel wants to concentrate on getting things fixed, I am fine with that. But they shouldn't deceive the customer about all these e-mails we were SUPPOSED to get and didn't. It tends to put people in worry mode that maybe their part has been lost or set aside and forgotten about.

Well, I think Lionel has become a bit overloaded of late, and perhaps they've dispensed with some of the niceties in order to push more work out.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, I think Lionel has become a bit overloaded of late, and perhaps they've dispensed with some of the niceties in order to push more work out.

I think you are exactly right.  

I am curious how many people are currently buying the 990 Legacy unit? And what version of the 990 is Lionel now being sold from Lionel? I mean what are the dealers getting? 1.00? 1.03? I wonder how big the demand is for the 990? I wonder if the Lion Chief is the big seller nowadays? I guess we will never know. I suspect the 990 is/was mainly bought by folks that are buying the big $$$$ Lionel stuff. And probably by now most all of those folks already have it.