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First Permanent Layout - Update 10/9/15

Apples55Apples55OGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Tried editing my last post and it seems to have not worked, so here goes take 2...

 

Progress on the layout has been moving along pretty well. I’ve finished the benchwork and run and all the drop wires from various points around the layout to a series of terminal blocks near the eventual location of the control panel (currently have three terminal blocks, one for each of the main lines, will eventually have a fourth when I add the center yard area). The attached photo will give some idea of my progress.

 

 

Layout 10-08-15

 

As I am about to start connecting the wires to the tracks, I have a few questions which I hope know you all can help me with!!!

  • I have always run my trains on a single loop on the floor and that made hooking up the Legacy Command Base to the track fairly simple (I am using FastTrack). I will be running the hot and ground wires from each track’s terminal block to separate terminals on several ZW transformers. I know you only need one Command Base for the entire layout, but I don’t know the best way to connect each of the main line tracks to the command base. Any guidance you can give me would be appreciated.
  • I have several Command Control switches on the layout. The box states that no wires are needed in Command Control. I assume that this means that I can just disconnect the throw switch controllers before I screw down the track, but the instructions which came with the switch seem to be silent on this matter. Am I correct in assuming that I can just disconnect the controllers?
  • Finally, I also have a few non-Command Control wyes. Due to their location, I may need to extend the controller wires back to my control panel. The wires look REALLY thin. Can anyone suggest what type of wire I should use to extend the wires (I may opt to use an ASC controller – haven’t decided yet)

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

 

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Pine Creek RailroadPine Creek RailroadOGR Forum Member

Paul,

   In order to use the low voltage FasTrack Command Control switches, you will need either Legacy or TMCC, you can also run them from the standard switch controls track side.  The FT CC switches are controlled from the hand held remote control, after you program the switches into the hand held, the instructions on how to due this come with your FT CC Switches, use either the Cab2 on the Legacy hand held remote control or the Cab 1 remote control on TMCC remote.  You can disconnect the manual controllers if you like, however I use both, using the lighted numbers for quick reference ident, along side each CC switch.  I have more than a few on 4 different levels.  Further If you are running DCS and Legacy, I suggest you use the opposite outside track on your FasTrack to connect your Legacy and also Connect it thru your DCS, setting up a seriously strong Legacy signal, I got this info from Marty some time back, it works very very well.

Have fun with your FT layout, the FT CC Switches are great stuff!   You can program & run as many as 99 of them on your FT layout, no wires necessary.

PCRR/Dave

Last edited by Pine Creek Railroad
cjackcjackOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

A multi conductor wire like this can be used...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eagle-...?hash=item3f41012833

 

I would run a short length from each switch to a  euro style terminal strip under the table . That way you could run a controller, ASC, separate power, or LCS from the switches easily in the future. Some times it's nice to have switches powered up without track voltage on.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Euro-S...?hash=item419dd92753

 

With LCS, you can run your layout from an iPad, iPhone, and the various modules for LCS will enable you to see the status of the switches.

 

http://legacy.lionel.com/lcs/LCSproducts/index.html 

 

M MoonmanOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Apples55:

 

As I am about to start connecting the wires to the tracks, I have a few questions which I hope know you all can help me with!!!

  • I have always run my trains on a single loop on the floor and that made hooking up the Legacy Command Base to the track fairly simple (I am using FastTrack). I will be running the hot and ground wires from each track’s terminal block to separate terminals on several ZW transformers. I know you only need one Command Base for the entire layout, but I don’t know the best way to connect each of the main line tracks to the command base. Any guidance you can give me would be appreciated.
  • All of the commons should be connected together with the transformers in phase. The legacy base wire is connected to the A channel U post on one transformer. That puts the signal everywhere
  • I have several Command Control switches on the layout. The box states that no wires are needed in Command Control. I assume that this means that I can just disconnect the throw switch controllers before I screw down the track, but the instructions which came with the switch seem to be silent on this matter. Am I correct in assuming that I can just disconnect the controllers?
  • Yes, that is correct. Leave the controllers out. Track power jumpers remain. When you power the layout, the switches are assigned an ID # following the procedure in the instructions.
  • Finally, I also have a few non-Command Control wyes. Due to their location, I may need to extend the controller wires back to my control panel. The wires look REALLY thin. Can anyone suggest what type of wire I should use to extend the wires (I may opt to use an ASC controller – haven’t decided yet)
  • 20-24AWG is fine. I use Cat 5 cable which is 24AWG solid. Use the new ASC version or an SC-2 to keep all of the switches command controlled.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

 

 

Last edited by Moonman
M MoonmanOGR Forum Member

Paul,

A couple of quick questions. Did you pull the jumper wires from the no-roadbed 1 3/8" between the switches to separate the loops? If you do not, you will not be able to run conventional trains that are individually controlled.

 

Also, do the same with the 1 3/8" for the switches before the yard spurs to control power for those. An SC-2 or toggle can handle those.

 

 

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  • Apple55 track plan
Apples55Apples55OGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Dave;
 
Thanks for the info. I will not be using DCS... I am having enough issues with one control system!!!
 
The switches on the left side of the picture are the older non-CC switches and I will be using the controllers for them. I am somewhat old fashioned and do like the idea of actually throwing the switch, and I will do that with those four switches. All the other switches (including the yet to be installed yard) will be the newer CC switches and I'll be using the hand held remote - best of both worlds. In light of that decision, I will remove the controllers from the CC switches. And, based on just appearance, I have to agree that the FasTrack switches will be great.
 
Originally Posted by Pine Creek Railroad:

Paul,

   In order to use the low voltage FasTrack Command Control switches, you will need either Legacy or TMCC, you can also run them from the standard switch controls track side.  The FT CC switches are controlled from the hand held remote control, after you program the switches into the hand held, the instructions on how to due this come with your FT CC Switches, use either the Cab2 on the Legacy hand held remote control or the Cab 1 remote control on TMCC remote.  You can disconnect the manual controllers if you like, however I use both, using the lighted numbers for quick reference ident, along side each CC switch.  I have more than a few on 4 different levels.  Further If you are running DCS and Legacy, I suggest you use the opposite outside track on your FasTrack to connect your Legacy and also Connect it thru your DCS, setting up a seriously strong Legacy signal, I got this info from Marty some time back, it works very very well.

Have fun with your FT layout, the FT CC Switches are great stuff!   You can program & run as many as 99 of them on your FT layout, no wires necessary.

PCRR/Dave

 

Apples55Apples55OGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Chuck;
 
Thanks for that info - very helpful. One additional question... is the euro style terminal strip the same idea as these MTH terminal blocks I used for the main wiring?
 
DCS LAYOUT TERM BLOCK 12 PORT
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I've actually looked at the LCS system and I do have an iPad... That's something I think I'll look into AFTER I get some trains running!!!
 
Thanks.
 
Paul
 
 
Originally Posted by cjack:

A multi conductor wire like this can be used...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eagle-...?hash=item3f41012833

 

I would run a short length from each switch to a  euro style terminal strip under the table . That way you could run a controller, ASC, separate power, or LCS from the switches easily in the future. Some times it's nice to have switches powered up without track voltage on.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Euro-S...?hash=item419dd92753

 

With LCS, you can run your layout from an iPad, iPhone, and the various modules for LCS will enable you to see the status of the switches.

 

http://legacy.lionel.com/lcs/LCSproducts/index.html 

 

 

Apples55Apples55OGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Carl;
 
Thanks for the info in this and your following post. I follow most of it!!!
 
I have not yet removed the jumper wires. I was just placing the track on the benchwork to get the spacing correct (and, sure enough, it needed a bit of tweaking from my original plan - a few spots were tighter than expected based on the plan). I will be pulling the jumpers on the 1 3/8 pieces where tracks cross over to each of the three main lines. Haven't decided where I will pull the jumpers going into the yard - at the initial wyes or at the switches leading to the individual tracks. I have a bit of time before I need to make that decision.
 
Now to my confusion (and it may be due to my original post being a bit unclear). As I just stated, I plan to isolate each main line by pulling the jumpers where the tracks cross over. You stated "The legacy base wire is connected to the A channel U post on one transformer" - wouldn't the isolated lines require a connection form the Legacy base to each line? If so, how would I best accomplish that?
 
Thanks.
 
Paul
 
Originally Posted by Moonman:
Originally Posted by Apples55:

 

As I am about to start connecting the wires to the tracks, I have a few questions which I hope know you all can help me with!!!

  • I have always run my trains on a single loop on the floor and that made hooking up the Legacy Command Base to the track fairly simple (I am using FastTrack). I will be running the hot and ground wires from each track’s terminal block to separate terminals on several ZW transformers. I know you only need one Command Base for the entire layout, but I don’t know the best way to connect each of the main line tracks to the command base. Any guidance you can give me would be appreciated.
  • All of the commons should be connected together with the transformers in phase. The legacy base wire is connected to the A channel U post on one transformer. That puts the signal everywhere
  • I have several Command Control switches on the layout. The box states that no wires are needed in Command Control. I assume that this means that I can just disconnect the throw switch controllers before I screw down the track, but the instructions which came with the switch seem to be silent on this matter. Am I correct in assuming that I can just disconnect the controllers?
  • Yes, that is correct. Leave the controllers out. Track power jumpers remain. When you power the layout, the switches are assigned an ID # following the procedure in the instructions.
  • Finally, I also have a few non-Command Control wyes. Due to their location, I may need to extend the controller wires back to my control panel. The wires look REALLY thin. Can anyone suggest what type of wire I should use to extend the wires (I may opt to use an ASC controller – haven’t decided yet)
  • 20-24AWG is fine. I use Cat 5 cable which is 24AWG solid. Use the new ASC version or an SC-2 to keep all of the switches command controlled.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

 

 

 

cjackcjackOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by Apples55:
Chuck;
 
Thanks for that info - very helpful. One additional question... is the euro style terminal strip the same idea as these MTH terminal blocks I used for the main wiring?
 
DCS LAYOUT TERM BLOCK 12 PORT
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I've actually looked at the LCS system and I do have an iPad... That's something I think I'll look into AFTER I get some trains running!!!
 
Thanks.
 
Paul
 
 
Originally Posted by cjack:

A multi conductor wire like this can be used...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eagle-...?hash=item3f41012833

 

I would run a short length from each switch to a  euro style terminal strip under the table . That way you could run a controller, ASC, separate power, or LCS from the switches easily in the future. Some times it's nice to have switches powered up without track voltage on.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Euro-S...?hash=item419dd92753

 

With LCS, you can run your layout from an iPad, iPhone, and the various modules for LCS will enable you to see the status of the switches.

 

http://legacy.lionel.com/lcs/LCSproducts/index.html 

 

 

They accomplish the same thing, but the euro strips are small and inexpensive.

M MoonmanOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Apples55:
Carl;
 
Thanks for the info in this and your following post. I follow most of it!!!
 
I have not yet removed the jumper wires. I was just placing the track on the benchwork to get the spacing correct (and, sure enough, it needed a bit of tweaking from my original plan - a few spots were tighter than expected based on the plan). I will be pulling the jumpers on the 1 3/8 pieces where tracks cross over to each of the three main lines. Haven't decided where I will pull the jumpers going into the yard - at the initial wyes or at the switches leading to the individual tracks. I have a bit of time before I need to make that decision.
 
Now to my confusion (and it may be due to my original post being a bit unclear). As I just stated, I plan to isolate each main line by pulling the jumpers where the tracks cross over. You stated "The legacy base wire is connected to the A channel U post on one transformer" - wouldn't the isolated lines require a connection form the Legacy base to each line? If so, how would I best accomplish that?
 
There should only be one common bus wire for all of the track common feeders to connect.
 
Then, each of the transformer commons should connect to one point to connect with the track common. It should only be one wire each from the ZW. I believe most them have all of the U's connected internally.
 
Then the legacy base can sit next to a ZW and have a wire to the U terminal.
 
The ZW transformers must be phased for all to work well.
 
Thanks.
 
Paul
 
Originally Posted by Moonman:
Originally Posted by Apples55:

 

As I am about to start connecting the wires to the tracks, I have a few questions which I hope know you all can help me with!!!

  • I have always run my trains on a single loop on the floor and that made hooking up the Legacy Command Base to the track fairly simple (I am using FastTrack). I will be running the hot and ground wires from each track’s terminal block to separate terminals on several ZW transformers. I know you only need one Command Base for the entire layout, but I don’t know the best way to connect each of the main line tracks to the command base. Any guidance you can give me would be appreciated.
  • All of the commons should be connected together with the transformers in phase. The legacy base wire is connected to the A channel U post on one transformer. That puts the signal everywhere
  • I have several Command Control switches on the layout. The box states that no wires are needed in Command Control. I assume that this means that I can just disconnect the throw switch controllers before I screw down the track, but the instructions which came with the switch seem to be silent on this matter. Am I correct in assuming that I can just disconnect the controllers?
  • Yes, that is correct. Leave the controllers out. Track power jumpers remain. When you power the layout, the switches are assigned an ID # following the procedure in the instructions.
  • Finally, I also have a few non-Command Control wyes. Due to their location, I may need to extend the controller wires back to my control panel. The wires look REALLY thin. Can anyone suggest what type of wire I should use to extend the wires (I may opt to use an ASC controller – haven’t decided yet)
  • 20-24AWG is fine. I use Cat 5 cable which is 24AWG solid. Use the new ASC version or an SC-2 to keep all of the switches command controlled.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

 

 

 

 

Last edited by Moonman
cjackcjackOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by F&G RY:

The euro strips I know are the white plastic ones. The wires are all insulated from each other.

 

The strip above has 2 sets of wires with 12 posts each.

 

Not the same thing.

Ok, fine. I jumper the euro strips to where they have two wires connected to a number of connections each.

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