FleaBay strikes again!

I agree with ROO - when one buys something as substantial as a locomotive from Ebay it pays to 'know' the seller. I basically divide Ebay into two categories - stores and 'private' sellers. There are a lot of brick and mortar hobby shops that sell trains on Ebay as well as in their stores. I tend to shy away from private sellers unless the item - say an unopened kit - is hard to screw up. I have also 'bought it now' a lot of stuff like accessories, lights, toggle switches etc from established sellers with no issues. My last purchase was dispensing tips from CML Hobbies.

Joe

Just a few weeks ago I offered two locomotives on eBay in different road names. One sold, the other didn't.  Shipped it all the way to UT and the buyer writes back "You sent the wrong one!"

Offered him an easy return and I would eat two-way shipping sending the correct one but fortunately, he decided to take the 2nd one as well at a slightly reduced price.

The culprit here was ME!

You also had a reasonable buyer, he recognized a good thing when he saw it and didn't try to screw you to the ground.

When it comes to Locos - the rule is "time in transit"

I'm less likely to order from a guy in Portland or Montana just because the package has to bump around more in transit. More handling = more chance of damage.

I'm in south central PA -  so I tend to order locos from northeast vendors - lots of locations are only 2 days with USPS Priority.

I have been on eBay since the beginning and I can say I have had zero problems buying or selling. 

I have bought things from Australia, Japan and of course America. If an item is not what you thought it was contact the seller. Sellers, take care of your buyers like what Sam did. It really pays off  in the end. 

I buy only from sellers with 99.0 to 100% approval ratings and have had no problems.

Only time I was disappointed was I ordered an item from a seller who took three weeks to let me know he they did not have the item and give me a refund.

p51 posted:

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

I  will buy from an O gauge forum member and not worry.   

Seriously?  You think no member of this forum can cheat you, play you for a sucker, or simply think you're playing them when you let him know the thing you bought isn't working?

I've never put a great deal of money into an internet forum deal, but I have gotten hosed a couple of times, once here (for something less than ten bucks, though).

Me too. More than once. Some folks really cannot tell if a loco is running poorly or not.

Anyone who thinks that fleabay will do anything to help you must believe in the Easter Bunny.  They do nothing but give you a report on why they do not get involved.

Eliot was this the first run with the 5 volt board?    I get a few  of those pointed my way and it is a must to get to the white battery so you can properly dispose of it.  I tell people not to count on the charging jack.  On the other end of that is an old white battery made in the last decade.  BTW, the battery is located under the front set of trucks.  Put in a new green battery and see if your board will come alive.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

tackindy posted:

In order to get good feedback I refunded a good portion of the money.  So yeah, Flea Bay has shady sellers AND buyers!   

When I encounter this kind of issue, I just insist on the buyer sending the item back and I'll refund his money.  I've never gotten anything back, when they realize that I'm not going to be scammed into refunding for a BS issue, they move on.

I think plenty of buyers do this every time they win something.

Happened to me once, but at least the buyer sent photos that clearly showed the very loco and box I'd sent to him and there was some damage, and he wasn't asking for much as a refund, so I gave it to him.

Otherwise, my response would be, "prove it" and to send the item back.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

tackindy posted:

In order to get good feedback I refunded a good portion of the money.  So yeah, Flea Bay has shady sellers AND buyers!   

When I encounter this kind of issue, I just insist on the buyer sending the item back and I'll refund his money.  I've never gotten anything back, when they realize that I'm not going to be scammed into refunding for a BS issue, they move on.

I have had a variety of experiences.. early years when l was lucky to hear about the Bay at a train show, l got good, reliable deals in quantity (and was sorry l was late to the party). I sold an Erector set picked up in a yard sale (l know little about them, but did find and sell a rare one that built ships), but to me this one was just a box of perforated parts. The guy howled and demanded, and got, his money back because parts were not neatly arrayed as set came from factory. (not a question he asked)  l resold it. As for those who "know nothing about trains", l got in an old, rare structure kit, that had instructions, but just a jumble of obviously scrap parts from several kits. I yelled, and guy said he was selling off an estate, refunded my money and said to keep it. I scratch built a rustic pickle packing house from the plans.   I had buyers send me $100 bills through the mail out of NYC (don't hold your breath for me to do that) for a car off the Bay, but when somebody on the forum advertised for one, and l offered it, l really got grilled by the prospective buyer.  I think that contrast is funny.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

What was the Lionel product number you thought you purchased?   That is a strange one.   Not a week goes by that I do not hear those fleabay stories.  Dennis, the best one is  "it ran great when I sent it"   I get to hear some good ones.   People get very mad at me when I tell them I will not work on anything that comes from Fleabay.  

 I feel bad for the poster as that must have floored him when he realized what someone had done to him.   I hope he makes out.  

I here ya!  Most of the stuff i buy is old and beat up anyway so its not that big a deal. I expect to have to work on it.  That said i agree that you should have to deal with it on new stuff

I live in another world, apparently. Since the 90's, 200+ eBay transactions, mostly RR, not all for locomotives, of course (everything from 2-8-8-2's to brass detail parts to a T-Reproductions 116 station), and I can honestly say that I was openly ripped off only one time (never sent it; a boat, BTW), sent faulty items maybe a dozen times, sent damaged items at about the same total, all of the sellers sent me a partial refund if I requested it (a few glitches I just fixed and moved on; life is too short).

eBay has been a generally positive experience for me (and my friends), and 2 or 3 of us are frequent users even today (I have tapered off on all purchases.

So - these statements about "you can never get anything good on eBay", or "nothing but rip-offs" are simply false. That things do happen is undeniable, and I am sure that the subject of this thread is true, BUT: if one looks at the photos - and are they good photos? -, checks the sellers rating (under 98% and I wonder about them, unless it's a dealer who's reputation I know from other sources), check the Bad feedback and his responses to them; check what the seller usually sells (200 Beanie Babies and one Cab-Forward - that packing might be an issue...), how the guy sounds in the listing - does he have a long list of gripes and thinly-veiled (or not so thinly-veiled) political huffings and puffings (this can be a clue to a citizen of  Looneyville, as can absurd shipping charges); does he seem to have an agenda?...and so forth.

I got an MTH Premier steam loco yesterday off eBay. Good price. It's fine. Again. Pay attention. There will be failures, even with due diligence. In fact, I'm due for one...

I have picked up two Atlas locos from Ebay, one was a throw away bid that surprised me when I won.  One was something I wanted that came so well packed I sent a personal email to the seller complementing him on the pristine condition of the loco and the packaging.  Would have awarded 6 stars if it was available.   Also picked up a Kline tank loco that is my pride and joy, again, great condition, great price.   Probably 1/3 of my locomotive fleet has come from ebay without one lemon in the bunch.  Based on the comments here regarding Ebay maybe I should switch to buying lottery tickets because I have had no complaints

D500 posted:

eBay has been a generally positive experience for me (and my friends), and 2 or 3 of us are frequent users even today (I have tapered off on all purchases.

So - these statements about "you can never get anything good on eBay", or "nothing but rip-offs" are simply false.

Good points. I've had some bad eBay deals, but rarely enough that I recall each one. Maybe a dozen in the hundreds of transactions I've had over the years.

The most common was when I'd won an item for less than the seller wanted, they declared the item was lost in postage, then list another exactly like the previous one...

But generally, eBay has been very good to me. You just bid on stuff where you don't have to worry about something you can't tell, like something that has to run on its own.

Marty,

Thanks, but I shipped it back.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

I  will buy from an O gauge forum member and not worry.   

I don't buy this either. I've been burned three times by forum members. Once the  forum seller shipped a Lionel scale NKP Berkshire in the original box, loco and tender wrapped in news paper, and that was it. Both pieces bounced around inside the box and broke all kinds of things. Twice I had the seller not ship anything at all. No reply to many emails, no tracking number, no item ever arrived. 

It's funny when these posts come up that the OP doesn't follow up with what happened after he contacted the seller. Sometimes honest accidents do happen. I just sold some cars to a form member, but sent one wrong car and didn't send at all the correct car. I shipped him the missing car and he can keep the wrong car. Making things right somehow goes a long way in my book.

I buy on eBay all the time. At least there they have buyer protection and will force a return of your money if you ship the item back.

Anyone who thinks that fleabay will do anything to help you must believe in the Easter Bunny.  They do nothing but give you a report on why they do not get involved.

My direct, personal experience says otherwise.
I had to file a not as described report on an EBay purchase (not a train).
EBay sided with me. I got a refund, and the seller had to pick up the cost of shipping both ways.
It was a heavy item, expensive to ship relative to the item's value, so the seller really did himself in by misrepresenting his merchandise.

It does happen.  I get to hear the other side of fleabay.    I had a bad situation where a guy won an engine and never paid for it.   Fleabay was no help to me.  They sent me an email with many words and no content.  I am glad someone has some luck.   I know people who only buy on fleabay to get trains on the cheap.  When they start crying about the beating  they got, they look for help to fix the trains.   Old saying     "you only get what you pay for"  

Fortunately, my good experiences buying from the forum outweigh my bad ones. I tried to buy a postwar steamer, and couldn't even get a response to my e-mails. Then bought a postwar steamer, missing side rods, and out of time. When I contacted the seller, he told me you never see the rods when it's running. ???????

I won't buy off an auction site, but am real cautious buying off the forum.

EBT Jim posted:

NSDTrains .... did you get a response from the seller, yet? 

Yes, I did. Apparently they had both the MTH and Lionel engines, and they simply sent the wrong one. It has already been returned and, they are going to send the correct Lionel version.

It does happen.  I get to hear the other side of fleabay.    I had a bad situation where a guy won an engine and never paid for it.   Fleabay was no help to me.  They sent me an email with many words and no content.  I am glad someone has some luck.

That sounds like an issue encountered as a seller. Didn't EBay refund your sellers fees?
If so, then you really weren't out anything, except some time. 
 

Reading posts on forums is a good way to sort out "shonky" sellers some buyers post their experiences and mention the name of the seller or their internet name that can be handy. Because of where I live I depend on a number of ways of buying and how I go about it I can't say all in public everything I do as I don't want to burn my bridges. On another matter, overseas buyers on American eBay always have a different shipping charge that you local blokes don't see which amuses me when I look at someone locally complaining "he wants $20 shipping charge" when the overseas charge that I see is $70!  I avoid that type of charge that is another thing that I have to watch for, some sellers shipping and charges are right over the top others are reasonable others are really low I'm careful on the real low charge unless it's a brand new freight car in it's original box which usually is padded up well from the factory and the seller can just throw it into a cheap secondhand carton all my items have a tracking number on them as well don't know if that is normal for shipping locally in America.

It's game an adventure, I enjoy it. Now I am about to snipe someone on the bay to get what I want this is not a train item something entirely different but I want it.

Have fun. Roo.

Nothing like a "fleabay" post to get the forum stirred up !!  Everyone has a different experience except me-I don't use it.

Read my feedback on Ebay, ID derekedwin

I never purchase motive power off of eBay.  Only rolling stock and some buildings.  

I've had pretty good luck on both Bay and Forum. I've had some great transactions here, even if an item arrived broken.  99% of members are super stand-up folks who will do their best to make it right.  I find it odd that anyone on OGR buy/sell would ever intentionally try to be dishonest with another forum member.  Surely they aren't naive enough to think we don't chat with one another via PM as to bad sellers?  Surely not.  

Jim said:

"Nothing like a "fleabay" post to get the forum stirred up !!  Everyone has a different experience except me-I don't use it".

Roo said:

Where you live you don't need it, I don't have television or a radio or listen to music doesn't mean I insult those things  or other people using them just don't need them, I have other things in life to enjoy and I pursue them to the fullest.

Volphin posted:

I find it odd that anyone on OGR buy/sell would ever intentionally try to be dishonest with another forum member.  Surely they aren't naive enough to think we don't chat with one another via PM as to bad sellers?  Surely not.  

Anyone can join, rip some folks off, then move on. There are probably thousands of forums and other places to get suckers to bite.

I like this forum and post here more often than anywhere else, but not everyone spends as much time or values what others think of their integrity as some folks here do.

CW, I sold a Lima Demo Berk to a man named Jerry from Pennsylvania  who dragged his feet paying.  Long story short, he never paid and contacted me with all sorts of BS excuses.  The last one was his sick wife.  He was also an OGR Forum member and I cut him all the slack I could.  I finally passed the time frame to report a non paying bidder.  He contacted me and promised to pay.  Due to the fact he had a sick wife I gave him all the time he needed.  He never paid.   Being an old Detective, I found out it was a lie and he was involved with little kids playing baseball.    Ebay did nothing for me but send me a copy of policy regarding non paying bidders.  Were they right, yes they were legaly.   I extended myself to help out this liar and lost money.  I know he goes to York as he lives in Pennsylvania and hope we can meet and chat.  Being a good guy, I lost my window to get my fees back.

CW, I sold a Lima Demo Berk to a man named Jerry from Pennsylvania  who dragged his feet paying.  Long story short, he never paid and contacted me with all sorts of BS excuses.

Before I was involved in any internet chat boards, I had a bad mail transaction where a guy took my money and then came up with all kinds of excuses for why my merchandise wasn't shipped yet. In the end, I managed to get a refund, but for a while I had my doubts.
I didn't stop trading through the mail because of this issue.

There are bad apples out there.

Did I miss something?  Just file a claim with he host site, for not receiving the item that was proffered. They insure that your money will be refunded by the host site or the seller.  No big deal.  No real reason to grouse.  Sure, it's frustrating, but there is recourse for the buyer, in every case.  

Bob Severin posted:

Did I miss something?  Just file a claim with he host site, for not receiving the item that was proffered. They insure that your money will be refunded by the host site or the seller.  No big deal.  No real reason to grouse.  Sure, it's frustrating, but there is recourse for the buyer, in every case.  

Try that with a forum purchase, see how far it gets you.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bob Severin posted:

Did I miss something?  Just file a claim with he host site, for not receiving the item that was proffered. They insure that your money will be refunded by the host site or the seller.  No big deal.  No real reason to grouse.  Sure, it's frustrating, but there is recourse for the buyer, in every case.  

Try that with a forum purchase, see how far it gets you.

The OP was specifically posting about Ebay.   The Buy / Sell rules here are very clear so that's irrelevant.  OGR provides the place to post items and that's all.  They make that very clear.  This is why I am extremely picky on who I purchase from here and even on Ebay. 

That being said I have had 100% positive experiences here and on ebay.  Do your homework and your odds are much better.  Sometimes honest mistakes happen and those are the folks will typically go the extra mile to make it right as long as a good communication path is established.

I've had good experiences on eBay and some not-so-good that were rectified quickly.  I've been taken advantage of here on the forum, but not ripped off.  I continue to make purchases here and on the Bay.  The big advantage on eBay is the purchase protection.  That makes pulling the trigger on some purchases pretty easy.

p51 posted:

Volphin posted:

I find it odd that anyone on OGR buy/sell would ever intentionally try to be dishonest with another forum member.  Surely they aren't naive enough to think we don't chat with one another via PM as to bad sellers?  Surely not.  

Anyone can join, rip some folks off, then move on. There are probably thousands of forums and other places to get suckers to bite.

I like this forum and post here more often than anywhere else, but not everyone spends as much time or values what others think of their integrity as some folks here do.

Yeah, but if you want to buy something from a person who just joined, or hasn't been here for years, then you haven't done your due diligence.  .

May the odds be ever in your favor.  LOL

OK,  NSDTrains, what's been said has been said...But I object to the title "FleaBay strikes Again!   It seems to me you're misplacing the blame.

FleaBay didn't do it.  The seller did.  FleaBay gives you rights as a buyer.  Use them.  I sympathize with your disappointment...but the forum can't help you.  FleaBay can.  

                                                                                                                             Logan

RLaHaie posted:

It sounds ridiculous but I have actually had the "tape fell off and item jumped out of the box" issue.  A trip to the post office and some investigation by the postmaster for my area revealed a less than honest employee was at fault.  The purchase was not trains but it can happen. 

I won't say not to use auction sites to make purchases because I have used them extensively.  Mostly I buy stuff advertised as broken/not working since I love to fix things.

Rolland

If you print your own pre paid shipping labels at home on your printer like I do, always have the shipper scan in your parcel when you drop it off at the PO, UPS, Fed Ex etc. It is not insured until they scan it into the system. And always ask for a receipt when you drop parcels off. You may sometimes get a dirty look but it's your money.

Logan Matthews posted:

OK,  NSDTrains, what's been said has been said...But I object to the title "FleaBay strikes Again!   It seems to me you're misplacing the blame.

FleaBay didn't do it.  The seller did.  FleaBay gives you rights as a buyer.  Use them.  I sympathize with your disappointment...but the forum can't help you.  FleaBay can.  

                                                                                                                             Logan

I concur with the above.  I sell and buy on eBay all the time.  eBay does it best to protect both parties if they follow the rules.  There are millions of eBay transactions every day.  Most happen without a problem.

NH Joe

Nearly 18 years on eBay, and only two bad experiences. One cost me $6 and wasn't train related. The other, concerning a Lionel MDC GP9, was resolved.

I prefer to, and do, buy new locomotives from hobby dealers in store or online. But for old stock not available from those sources, I use eBay. Its automated search function and notification features make it an incredibly easy way to find what I'm looking for.

I look at every seller's rating before bidding, and if the percentage drops below 99, I filter for negative reviews. Then I decide to bid or buy, and I do so wisely, never bidding more than I am willing to pay.

When people use the word Fleabay, I take it as a derogatory term. It certainly suggests a less-than-objective attitude toward eBay.

eBay has an effective protection policy. I know people other than myself who have used it. It exists. To suggest otherwise again shows a less-than-objective attitude on the topic.

If you don't want to use eBay, fine. But for those posting slanted replies to the OP's original issue, please don't try to convince others that eBay is a dangerous market inferior to other forms of train transactions. None of them are perfect, from brick-and-mortar sales to York dealers. But eBay builds and maintains protections better than any of them.