Just because the drive wheels have been finished doesn't mean that there isn't a ton of tedious running gear work to do yet. Spring rigging, brake rigging, crown brass, wedges, on and on, on and on.
NKP779 posted:Just because the drive wheels have been finished doesn't mean that there isn't a ton of tedious running gear work to do yet. Spring rigging, brake rigging, crown brass, wedges, on and on, on and on.
Correct, and those item are part of the "Running Gear Machinery", i.e. the "wheel work" is already done.
There really hasn't been a lot of comings and goings. The person who took over is dedicated to keep 1309 running once she's in service again. 1309 could have been put on the tracks sooner, with "over the winter" repairs to keep it running. But now, it is being done right. You just don't know the amount of wear, along with a quickie asbestos removal did to that engine not to mention "quickie" repairs by the C&O I think what Mr Garner meant by "wheel" services is the setting up of the engines, that is the tram and so forth. Because as H W says, the wheels have been done a long time ago. And don't forget, that's two sets of engines that have to be done.
The big delay last spring was the grant money being held up. The deal is that the shop folks are doing what they can, but experienced contract workers are doing what the shop workers cannot. As Hot Water has mentioned, and since I've seen what was and has yet to be done, setting time limits on completion of such a daunting project is a mistake.
Having said that, however, I do expect she will be running by spring. And running well. And for all the service life. Also, from what I hear, they expect to run all year long, no winter layover as was the case when 734 had the duty.
I do hope once she is running that she'll make a lot of money for the WMSR, and 734 can once again ride the rails.
Just one more comment. It seems to me that the only comings and goings during a project like this is...MONEY!
Ed
PS. What NKP779 said..wheel work..talk about wear, the spring hanger bushings were worn completely out, and the parts that held the bushings were worn also, this means that what held the bushing has an obround hole and this has to be rebored and a larger bushing installed. This type of wear is all over this engine, the C&O spend as little as it could keeping her running. That's only one example...I never realized, until I saw this engine five or six months ago, the amount of work and material needed to restore a steam engine.
She will run, and she will be beautiful.
Well, "there you go" (Marshal Sam McCloud) reality has finally dawned in Ridgeley.
Last week during his radio interview, Garner was still "optimistic" that steam would run this fall. However, he mentioned that he was scheduling a meeting with his contractor (Diversified Rail Services, Gary Bensman) to get the most accurate estimate. Guess that meeting didn't go well.
2 things I also learned during that interview:
1309's restoration is up to $1.8 million, twice what was originally budgeted.
100% of WMSR'S marketing goes outside the Cumberland area, as the "local people don't ride". This is no surprise to me, as the "railroads" in the Cumberland area only means a better-paying job than many others to the locals.
A couple of observations/predictions:
WMSR will be hitting up the state gov't again for more funds.
Garner's predecessor, Gresham, got out of Dodge at the beginning of this saga, did he smell a rat?
Is the B&O museum complicit in selling a veritable bucket of bolts?
Garner may see this project through, but I wouldn't doubt that he will be doing his carnival barker routine elsewhere once the 1309 is actually operating.
If they go to year-round operation, hope they keep that contract crew on speed-dial.
After all the money/time on this engine, perhaps it would have been better to liberate the real WM Pacific from Hagerstown, or get any other suitably-sized steamer?
I hate when bad things happen to the area I grew up in, but there are also reasons why I don't live there now.
WOW! Double the original budget. Too much money spent now to go back. Might as well see it through
$1.8M for a full restoration of a Mallet is not bad. I think the K4 guys burned through almost $4m, and still don't have an engine together.
When 1309 runs, she'll make a lot more money than any WM Pacific. You always had to go outside the Cumberland market, this ain't a prosperous area anyhow. How do ya do that? Outshop an articulated locomotive.734 pulled 'em in, as will 1309..in spades. I think once she's put together right, no contract crew will be needed. I think the shop boys will be quite capable of maintaining that locomotive.
Her size is perfect, no problem. During the busy season, no diesel helper will be needed to pull long trains. Only thing they will need is a longer passing siding at Frostburg. Being a compound, 1309 may even use less fuel than 734 with the same tonnage.
All this will pass when she runs.
I can remember when a hue and cry went up when it was said that 734 and the trail thru Brush Run Tunnel just should not be allowed. Not safe. Some folks wanted to get rid of the WMSR then. All history now. 734 was a success, in spite of NEVER EVER in the shape 1309 will be in when it takes to the rails.
Ed
"Garner's predecessor, Gresham, got out of Dodge at the beginning of this saga, did he smell a rat?"
It was well into the saga but yes, yes I did smell a rat! A NUMBER of them! But none of the rats were called "1309".
A lot of speculation and discussion has gone into the fact that I and Mr. Garner released a completion date. I don't know about Garner, but I was ORDERED (and threatened with termination) if I didn't release a projected ready date by the President of the WMSRDC Board of Directors. If you look back, I did. However, I refused to put tickets on sale. Why? Because I had low confidence in the date...
For example, when I projected #1309's return to service in summer of 2015, it was based on work and funding that included the $400K from the State of MD. We knew it would take time, but we knew the funding would come through. The plan was to get a bridge loan to keep working on #1309 over the winter of 2015/2016 until the State funding arrived in July or soon after. The bridge loan was to be repaid by the State grant. The $400K was $100K over what Kevin Rice (who was and still is over the #1309 rebuild) needed to finish the rebuild (remember that we weren't paying people $100/hr plus lodging and per diem, but paying shop rate in Cumberland which was $12-$15 hour). The President of WMSRDC Board (Mike Brant) was also on the Board at 1st People's Federal Credit Union (where WMSR had all of it's credit accounts). Mr. Brant was going to obtain the loan for WMSR to keep work going over the winter. The second big rat I smelled was when I was prevented from going to Chessie Federal Credit Union (who called me to ask if they could assist with the #1309 project) when 1st People's failed to produce the loan. Needless to say, when the bridge loan never materialized from 1st People's and when I was prevented from going to another financial institution, we ran low on funding and work stopped over the winter.
The next rat was when Mr. Brant started demanding that I sell tickets to generate revenue on #1309's debut after the bridge loan didn't materialize. I wouldn't do it. I told him that without a dedicated source of funding to continue the work on #1309, there were too many unknowns to be able to accurately predict a release date and I refused to sell tickets. To do so in my mind would constitute fraud (knowingly selling something I knew I couldn't deliver on time) . Mr. Brant stated "our customers will understand if we have to change the date, and besides, we always reserve the right to substitute power". In my mind, it wasn't right and I refused to go along with it. Look at what has been happening...
People will say "but you didn't know the condition of the locomotive". The boiler UT was completed by Scott Lindsay and his team in, I believe, November of 2015. The report was complete by January of 2016 as I recall. The boiler condition was known. The only way the boiler condition WASN'T known is if the report wasn't read. We knew we had five areas on the outer shell to repair, and Kevin worked solutions. By late January, fixes were already underway, with pieces cut out and fabrication underway where required. Dated photographs document this. The major issue was (as previously mentioned) staybolts. Without the bridge loan, we had no way to order the staybolts, but otherwise, many of the other large pieces were accounted for and being rebuilt or acquired (air pumps, stoker, safety valves, drivers, tubes, etc.). Kjell Benner (as I recall his name) was going to town on removing stays that required replacement. However, without the bridge loan, work had to stop.
"But the rebuild cost has over doubled!". OK--as stated before, Kevin Rice was and is still the project lead. So, either he didn't estimate well (not likely given his knowledge) or other factors had to change. Now, I can't say WHAT changed, but I can say this. Kevin was extremely good and diligent at ensuring we had competing bids from people. For example, for the UT work, I think we got three or four bids. On that bid, Scott Lindsay and his team was low bid, and exceptional with whom to work. On two another bids, Robert Franzen was low bidder (and another great person with whom to work). Not everyone liked the fact that we bid out both large and small pieces of the project, but it certainly helped Kevin and I to keep costs in line. Other people who won work from that point in time were Heber Valley and Strasburg, maybe one other that escapes me at the moment. I learned long ago in Dept of Defense acquisitions that single source suppliers almost always result in dramatic increases in cost.
#1309 will be a tremendous asset to whomever ends up running it.
Warmest regards;
Mike Gresham
(WMSR: been there, done that)
Nice of Mike to drop in.
Liked this last word "#1309 will be a tremendous asset to whomever ends up running it."
I believe that.
Ed
And one last word about the shop forces, WMSR's own men. Three of the non stainless steel passenger cars have been repainted in the Western Maryland paint scheme. And all rust in these cars is replaced, not with bondo, as may have been done in the past, but with steel! They did a fine job on the cars, they should be good to go for a few years. The caboose 1813 has been painted as well in older WM paint scheme, a bright red. Looks good.
Ed
Thanks Mike, well put
CUMBERLAND — The Western Maryland Scenic Railroad has canceled plans for an autumn return of its steam-powered locomotive.
"It is a disappointment," said John Garner, WMSR CEO. "However, we are all looking forward to having this magnificent locomotive back in service. We want to run it totally safe and we will take the extra time and do this the right way."
The cancellation will end plans for an autumn debut for steam-powered excursions to Frostburg to view fall foliage.
The railroad has been renovating its 1949 Baldwin steam locomotive No. 1309. In the meantime, the railroad has been using diesel engines to pull the excursion train.
The railroad has sold 80 tickets to date for excursions scheduled for the fall. The railroad had planned rides beginning in September, including a Trains Magazine Photo Freight Charter on Sept. 26. The railroad's website said the event was sold out.
As of Tuesday afternoon, autumn dates featuring steam were still for sale. The railroad has diesel locomotives available to pull the passenger cars.
Garner said more issues were found in the Chesapeake & Ohio 2-6-6-2 No. 1309 as the locomotive was being torn down for maintenance.
"We discovered more flaws in the metals that make up the locomotive," said Garner. "It's a domino effect. By the time you take apart the gears and disassemble it all the way down you see the full extent."
Garner said only one company in the eastern United States, located in Tennessee, is authorized to work on steam locomotives. Repairs must be completed to Federal Railroad Administration standards.
"We have arranged with the company that does this type of work to have our axles taken care of," said Garner. "We could get it running and take it up (on excursions in the fall) and then have to take it down again in a couple months and make the repairs. But if we are going to do it we may as well do it right."
Garner said the repairs should take two to three months. He plans to have the steam locomotive ready for excursion in early 2018.
"We will offer (steam powered excursion) ticket holders first chance at reservations for excursions in 2018." said Garner. "We want these repairs done right so we won't need them done for another 15 years."
Garners said the train will continue to be renovated while the axles and wheels are worked on.
"That way when we get the wheels back we can basically just put it together in four or five days," said Garner.
Tickets holders for 2017 may request a refund, according to the railroad. For additional information, contact the WMSR at 301-759-4400
Mike, I appreciate that you have posted here to give us a first-person account of what's happening wt WSMR and the 1309.
Working with Scott Lindsay, Robert Franzen, Gary Bensman and the others you mentioned, you are dealing with the absolute BEST people in steam locomotive restoration. I know them all and they are GOOD people.
As for the cost overrun, it comes with the territory in this business! I don't care how good an expert Kevin Rice might be, there is no way he could accurately estimate the cost of restoring the 1309 until it was taken completely apart. He didn't have that luxury, so he used his experience and expertise to come up with a number that he thought would be close. The fact that the number has only doubled tells me his original estimate was fairly accurate.
Now...having said all this...I don't want this thread to become a "Let's bash WSMR and the 1309" kind of thread. They have made some mistakes and endured some hardships, but it is not fair for ANY of us to beat up on them because we don't know the whole story of what they have had to deal with. Take comfort in the fact that the 1309 will roll on WSMR rails some time next year.
Thanks, Rich. No one knows the whole story of what they had to deal with, that's for sure.
I'm done here. Mr. Garner and Mr. Rice will have 1309 running. Period.
Ed
THanks. All the griping and complaining were getting on my nerves. Couldn't agree more.
