Work continues on 1309.
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Next is the "difficult" job of rolling, beading, and welding, which requires some REAL expertise.
Very cool, Western Maryland! Wishing you guys continued success in your work.
How about an east coast - west coast Mallet meetup someday, somewhere .... when UP 4014 is running? 
EBT Jim posted:Very cool, Western Maryland! Wishing you guys continued success in your work.
How about an east coast - west coast Mallet meetup someday, somewhere .... when UP 4014 is running?
UP 4014 is NOT a Mallet!
Um, 1309 will probably never leave WMSR rails now. CSX is VERY unfriendly to steam, especially with Hunter Harrison now in charge. They probably won't allow any UP steam, either. Is the target date for operation of 1309 still September?
You'll be lucky to see 1309 before Halloween, and it will probably just be test runs...
I'd be shocked to see it operate any sooner...far too many variables at play.
SP guys continued to call the articulated consolidations "Back-up Malleys" long after the low pressure cylinders went to the scrap heap.
But I agree - Big Boy is not a Mallet.
Hot Water posted:EBT Jim posted:Very cool, Western Maryland! Wishing you guys continued success in your work.
How about an east coast - west coast Mallet meetup someday, somewhere .... when UP 4014 is running?
UP 4014 is NOT a Mallet!
Whoa! Bold font in red!
My mistake .... it is not a Mallet.
How about a meetup of eastern - western articulated's some day?
EBT Jim posted:Hot Water posted:EBT Jim posted:Very cool, Western Maryland! Wishing you guys continued success in your work.
How about an east coast - west coast Mallet meetup someday, somewhere .... when UP 4014 is running?
UP 4014 is NOT a Mallet!
Whoa! Bold font in red!
My mistake .... it is not a Mallet.
How about a meetup of east coast - west coast articulated's some day?
Don't count on THAT either, as the UP 4000 class locomotives were/are WAY TOO big to venture eastward. When the UP Challenger 3985 visited the Clinchfield RR, the clearances were even a bit tight for her, as she nicked a hopper car on a siding in a sharp curve.
Hot Water posted:EBT Jim posted:Hot Water posted:EBT Jim posted:Very cool, Western Maryland! Wishing you guys continued success in your work.
How about an east coast - west coast Mallet meetup someday, somewhere .... when UP 4014 is running?
UP 4014 is NOT a Mallet!
Whoa! Bold font in red!
My mistake .... it is not a Mallet.
How about a meetup of east coast - west coast articulated's some day?
Don't count on THAT either, as the UP 4000 class locomotives were/are WAY TOO big to venture eastward. When the UP Challenger 3985 visited the Clinchfield RR, the clearances were even a bit tight for her, as she nicked a hopper car on a siding in a sharp curve.
...which is a perfect example of knowledge being lost over 40 years. In the steam era, Clinchfield management knew exactly what the tolerances of the Challengers were. Twenty years after the fact when they needed to extend a siding around a "sharp" curve to accommodate longer trains, the clearance concerns of a Challenger never entered into the equation. Bring one back, the knowledge is lost, and you end up with a sideswipe.
Kevin
J 611 posted:Work continues on 1309.
Thank you for the update. This second photo clearly shows the swedging of the tube end.
Nick Chillianis posted:J 611 posted:Work continues on 1309.
Thank you for the update. This second photo clearly shows the swedging of the tube end.
Then they must be installing that tube backwards.
Just looks like that end has been cleaned/ground. That end has not been swedged.
N&W Class J posted:Just looks like that end has been cleaned/ground. That end has not been swedged.
Exactly. The swedged, i.e. smaller, end is on the firebox end of the tubes, and thus is inserted into the rear tube sheet, which has the smaller diameter holes..
A lot of experts chiming in. I like to see these photos of work actually being done. As to clearances -it is my understanding that the track alignments on Horseshoe Curve in Pa. are different in the diesel age than they were during steam. How many other track alignments are changed plus even ROWs being moved over the years without being recorded.
How does WMSR know that the 1309 will be able to handle the line to Frostburg? The curves, etc.? It never ran or was tested on that line before. Hope they fixed that landslide before Frostburg so that the weight of the 1309 doesn't cause another one and tumbles down the hill.
Robert K posted:How does WMSR know that the 1309 will be able to handle the line to Frostburg? The curves, etc.? It never ran or was tested on that line before.
The C&O operated many of the H-4, H-5, and H-6 class compound 2-6-6-2 locomotives on far worse curves & grades (even double-headed) than what the WMSR has. Again, you might want to do some research into the C&O coal branch lines and how they used their 2-6-6-2 steam locomotives.
Robert K posted:How does WMSR know that the 1309 will be able to handle the line to Frostburg? The curves, etc.? It never ran or was tested on that line before. Hope they fixed that landslide before Frostburg so that the weight of the 1309 doesn't cause another one and tumbles down the hill.
A 9 degree curve on the Chesapeake & Ohio is the same as a 9 degree curve on the Western Maryland or anywhere else. The specs and tolerances (curvature, axle loadings, etc) on that railroad are known. The specs and tolerances of the 1309 are known.
Give the Western Maryland Scenic a little bit of credit--they aren't going to restore an engine that won't run on that railroad.
Kevin
Robert K posted:How does WMSR know that the 1309 will be able to handle the line to Frostburg? The curves, etc.? It never ran or was tested on that line before. Hope they fixed that landslide before Frostburg so that the weight of the 1309 doesn't cause another one and tumbles down the hill.
1) Same as the apparently popular "how will they turn it, it won't fit on the turntable" question. It fits, it will likely run just fine. Plus, don't you think they would've thought of that before even dragging it out of the B&O Museum?
2) The landslide was fixed a long time ago and they've been running to Frostburg all year, if not more.
I really don't get all of the hand-wringing about 1309 "making it" on the WMSR trackage.
It's still 14 miles of the old WM Connellsville Sub mainline that was completed in 1912, still has all the 132lb. rail that was there since the WWII era, and saw regular passage by huge 4-6-6-4s, 4-8-4s, 2-8-8-2s, and 2-10-0s in steam times. The last 2 miles into Frostburg is the old Cumberland & Pennsylvania main which did not see anything larger than Russian Decapods in steam, but the rail is 132lb. relaid from the old WM main west of Frostburg, has deep ballast, and is maintained better than the WM days.
Lastly a C&O 2-6-6-2 is an articulated, it bends in the middle, thus making sharp curves less of an issue.
Much expense and effort went into the repairs of both landslides, with funds made available from county, state, and federal sources, the county and state have made a significant investment in getting WMSR remade into a top tourist attraction.
It would be great to go back in time and save a WM 1200, given the opportunity, but I still will be happy to see the 1309.
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And so are most of the railfans on the east coast. We may have to wait a little longer, but when she's done it'll be right..and 1309 is going to attract a LOT of railfans.
Ed
Don't they have trips scheduled on November with 1309? A trip they are selling tickets for?
superwarp1 posted:Don't they have trips scheduled on November with 1309? A trip they are selling tickets for?
That, plus the Trains Magazine "photo charter" in September!
There are some really interesting youtube videos on rolling and beading flues to make a tight fit. In the past the task required great physical strength and endurance. Apparently there is new tooling available that makes the job much easier and is not physically punishing.
RUT ROH!!!
looks like a combo of a disgruntled x-employee and the release of minutes (from 2 months ago) from a local tourism committee meeting put WMSR's John Garner on the local radio hotseat.
wcbcradio.com
Dave Norman is the local loudmouth.
The interview is lengthy and rambling in spots, also interrupted by one of those stupid EBS tests.
There are some tidbits included in the interview, the mentions of the passenger car fleet and WMSR's marketing were quite interesting.
In other Cumberland news, CSX announced last week the Cumberland shop would remain open, and one in Tennessee would close.
This photo just got released from WMSR; boiler work.
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Borden Tunnel posted:This photo just got released from WMSR; boiler work.
Looking good!
Pessimism presumes people are not knowledgeable about what they do and plan to do. I am confident that the folks who will operate the 1309 know what they are doing.
I have restored two vehicles that were made long before I was born. I learned and gained skills as I went through the process. I am sure the folks building the 1309 will also learn as they go.
Bobby Ogage posted:Pessimism presumes people are not knowledgeable about what they do and plan to do. I am confident that the folks who will operate the 1309 know what they are doing.
Yep, as I understand it, a lot of people who know steam are involved in this in one way or another. One former steam guru at Mt Rainier Scenic has been working on this to some degree, but I can't recall how.
Bobby Ogage posted:I have restored two vehicles that were made long before I was born. I learned and gained skills as I went through the process.
I'm reminded of a comment a hot-rod guy made about 4449 once. He sneered and said, "I don't know why they make such a big deal about these things. I've rebuilt four antique cars, it's not as big a deal as they make it out to be." Before I could say something, one of the volunteers told him, "Yeah, but that's a thousand times the mass as anything you've ever worked on, you have to make all the parts, and if one of you cars blows an engine through neglect of fluid levels, it won't kill everyone standing in and around it."
Bobby Ogage posted:Pessimism presumes people are not knowledgeable about what they do and plan to do. I am confident that the folks who will operate the 1309 know what they are doing.
The "people who will operate the 1309" are NOT the issue. The boiler work and running gear work, have been, and are being accomplished by outside EXPERT contractors. Thus, you are trying to compare apples to oranges.
I have restored two vehicles that were made long before I was born. I learned and gained skills as I went through the process. I am sure the folks building the 1309 will also learn as they go.
Congratulations, except antique vehicles do NOT fall under Federal Railroad Administration regulations & specifications! Pretty much ANY mechanical savvy person could restore a motor vehicle, over time. That, however, is NOT the case with steam locomotive boilers and running gear.
Per Trains Mag, sounds like the plug was pulled on photo trips and (likely) for operation this year.
Hoping for "winter" to get it to run.
Why they keep setting dates, selling tickets for said dates, then pushing it back is beyond me. Finish it, boil water, and test it THEN sell the tickets when it has proven itself.
SJC posted:Per Trains Mag, sounds like the plug was pulled on photo trips and (likely) for operation this year.
Hoping for "winter" to get it to run
I have been wondering when reality would set-in with Mr. Garner (sp), General Manager at WMSR? There is no way that 1309 would/could be "ready" in 2017, what with all the running gear work required, plus still some 200 staybolts requiring replacement.
SJC posted:Why they keep setting dates, selling tickets for said dates, then pushing it back is beyond me. Finish it, boil water, and test it THEN sell the tickets when it has proven itself.
Typical marketing. I’ve seen it like that for airplane restorations, as well. The bottom line is this, the way many museums see it: Once it’s ready to run, then it’s too late to advertise for people to come out to where you are from hither and yon. You have to snag them (and their money) BEFORE that, to ensure that when you’re ready to go, the people with the money are, too. You can’t pull such an event out at the last minute, they think.
That’s totally untrue, of course. We’ve all seen last-minute events like that sell out, but museums and tourist operations don’t like to bet on that. They want the world beating their door down, along with all that free press, for the high-profile ‘first’ event. And if they have to push it back, then so be it.
I don’t agree with that, but that is how these kinds of things are conceived.
Hot Water posted:SJC posted:Per Trains Mag, sounds like the plug was pulled on photo trips and (likely) for operation this year.
Hoping for "winter" to get it to run
I have been wondering when reality would set-in with Mr. Garner (sp), General Manager at WMSR? There is no way that 1309 would/could be "ready" in 2017, what with all the running gear work required, plus still some 200 staybolts requiring replacement.
The excuse is they are adding wheel work to the project.. it is what it is.
superwarp1 posted:Hot Water posted:SJC posted:Per Trains Mag, sounds like the plug was pulled on photo trips and (likely) for operation this year.
Hoping for "winter" to get it to run
I have been wondering when reality would set-in with Mr. Garner (sp), General Manager at WMSR? There is no way that 1309 would/could be "ready" in 2017, what with all the running gear work required, plus still some 200 staybolts requiring replacement.
The excuse is they are adding wheel work to the project.. it is what it is.
Baloney! The wheels have already been completed, and they previously showed photos of the finished drivers, quite a long time ago. I just don't understand why those folks will NOT admit all the problems that 1309 had, and still has as a result of the C&O seriously wearing her out and keeping her running with "quick fixes" until new diesels arrived.
Another "item" that they don't want to discuss is the fact that not only is 1309 an articulated, but she is a COMPOUND articulated, and nobody at the WMSR had/has ANY experience with all those extra steam pipes as well as the intercepting valve (which was recently just removed within the last two weeks). A compound articulated will NOT operate properly with a workout intercepting valve!!!!
Hot Water posted:I just don't understand why those folks will NOT admit all the problems that 1309 had, and still has as a result of the C&O seriously wearing her out and keeping her running with "quick fixes" until new diesels arrived.
Funny you'd mention that. I once went to the B&O museum in the late 90s, and encountered a former C&O hogger walking around with his kids and grandkids, talking about running several of the types at the museum. I followed the family at a respectful distance but hung on his every word. He said several times while pointing to various locomotives, that he would bet most were totally worn out due to the 'bailing wire and bubble gum' (his words) nature of late steam operations. He talked about taking locomotives out with all kinds of problems, nursing them along his run so he could pass the problem on to someone else. I remember him saying that the list of items that'd deadline a locomotive back then was quite short.
I'll never forget the last thing I heard him tell one of the kids who asked if any of the steam engines could run again. He said, "You can restore anything if you put enough money and time into it. I wouldn't take any of these out if they shopped them and fired them up again, that's for sure."
Ironically, I was parked with a view of the end of spurs in the parking lot, with a view of 2101 and 1309. I thought to myself that I'd never see Freedom Train # 1 running, and I think I remember snickering at the thought anyone would try to get 1309 going. I didn't know, though, how little time she'd had on her when they dropped the fires.
Anyway, I'd thought of that day several times during the saga of 1309's comings and goings recently...
Most recent article here:
Onward and upward, WMSR .... on this great endeavor.
