future Lionchief offerings

I think you are thinking exactly what Lionel is probably thinking because the LionChief and LionChief Plus sets and locos seems to have generated a lot of interest and sales.  The pricing is particularly attractive in the current market as far as I can see.

I certainly hope Lionel is thinking like I am! If they aren't, I only live about 45 minutes from their new headquarters. I would be happy to go down and give them my sales pitch! Anyways, there is A LOT to like about a locomotive that you can take anywhere, to anyones layout and run it without issue. I don't personally need the added detail of the lionmaster or imperial locomotives, if it means that the price is $100-150 cheaper.

 

Also, can you imagine how well a lionchief plus challenger set would sell if Lionel included 3-4 of the new USA made boxcars and maybe a caboose? Not only could they market the great Lionchief features, but they could also leverage the fact that the cars are made in USA. Sounds like a no brainer to me!

Wow I would think they would stay away from articulated engines.  The idea of the system was less expensive easy to operate engines.

 

I can see them using the tooling from the PWC series but I would be surprised if they make an articulated engine.

I'm not saying that an articulated would be top of the list, however doesn't Lionel still own the tooling for those K-line semi scale articulateds from 8-10 years ago? It seems like they were a little smaller than Railking, more of an S-gauge size anyway, so that might fit the Lionchief price point a bit better.

I would think the small sized Pennsy K4 would be in their future plans.

If one listens to the numerous statements made by the Lionel executives, the intentions of the LionChief and LionChief plus lines are clearly stated. By mixing affordable (and simple) technology with trains, they are hoping to grow market base of the hobby. And also trying to entice the many conventional operators who do not wish to buy a command system, of which I am one of this group.

 

While putting this simplified operating technology into larger locomotives like a 4-8-4 or a UP Challenger might seem to be a logical next step (?), will larger (and more expensive) locomotives like these REALLY grow the market, or just compete against already established products in the market? Lionel must realize the current market is soft and prices on used trains are for the most part down.

 

If one looks at the current catalogs and sees the types of trains with the LionChief technology, these are items with the intent of expanding the hobby base. Hopefully these products do as they are intended to do and are successful for Lionel. I for one an very curious as to how well the Industrial Switcher and little Dockside set engines perform with the LionChief system.

 

The current LionChief plus steamers are doing well from all appearances. But would larger steam engines needing larger radius curves do as well? Most serious modelers who have layouts large enough to run larger locomotives probably have one of the two digital control systems and probably already own models of some of these steamers like a 4-8-4. Would putting them out again with a more simplified technology really help grow the market? And at what price point do you start to lose newcomers to the hobby?

 

I for one am content to see how well these already cataloged items do for Lionel. The success of these items will certainly help determine future offerings. The expanded line up of the LionChief starter sets this year is no doubt due to the success of the initial introduction of these sets last year.

 

 

I believe that Lionel should try and market the Lionchief plus locos, as their version of MTH Railking. I for one do not have the room to run Scale sized locos on my layout. I currently have some Railking Imperial stuff, however I can't run those locos on my buddy's large layout because he uses the Legacy system. If Lionel offered anything to compete with the Railking line, I would rather purchase the Lionel. It seems as though they just abandoned the middle of the market and gave it MTH. There are going to be a lot of new railfans in the coming years as Norfolk Southern gets 4501 and 611 up to speed, and UP brings 4014 on line. Perhaps those folks have already bought into the Lionchief system with starter sets, and they want models of the 611 or 4014. Lionel will have nothing for them except the large and EXPENSIVE Legacy stuff. There are a lot of people that not only don't have the room for scale stuff, but they don't have the finances either.

Correct me if I am wrong but the LC+ RS-3 and GP7 at 14 1/2" and 14" respectively in length are pretty close to scale. I would like to see more road names and more diesels added to their LC+ line-up. Having almost scale GP9's, E6,7 8 or9's and F3 F7's would be a great addition to the LC+.

The crux of the problem was described quite well by Scott Mann in another thread (as noted by Brianel, above):

 

"The bigger problem I see going forward is the reduced demand for model trains in general. The younger generation is not coming up in the ranks. Due to the long slump in our economy, our customers don't have the discretionary income they once had."

 

Very true!  And I have yet to see--here or anywhere else--a truly viable solution to the problem.  Truth is, I don't believe there is a solution, simple or otherwise.  All we can really do is attempt to adjust to the realities we live with.

 

These are all valid points guys. I like the idea of doing some F3's or F7's, as well as perhaps an E unit. They could get a lot of mileage out of those molds!

 

There is definitely a "growth" problem in the hobby. I am 34 years old, and I don't know anyone else my age in this area that is into O-Gauge. It's going to take some creative thinking on the part of the manufacturers in order to overcome the problem.

 

I think that the upper end of the market is going to shrink, as the older guys with the large established layouts start to die off. I know that sounds rather crude and harsh, but the truth is the truth. If MTH and Lionel want to grow the market, I think smaller and cheaper is where it's at. I also think it's a mistake to assume that you can start someone out with a Lionchief locomotive, and work them up to Legacy locos. I've spent a fair amount of time working/ hanging out at the local o-gauge store, and I can tell you that A LOT of people simply don't have the room or budget for the big stuff. You can demonstrate it and point out the awesome little details all you want, but they aren't going to buy it because they simply can't. The average joe has enough trouble making ends meet, much less paying for a $1,000.00 o-gauge train. Everybody is impressed with the MTH Premier and Lionel Legacy, but they just can't justify the expense.

 

Now, I think Lionel is on the right track with Lionchief Plus. The locos are reasonably detailed, they sound good and kids (or adults) can run the darn things anywhere. They are priced right as well. I think the sweet spot for most people is below $400 for a single locomotive. Perhaps $600 if you were talking a large Lionchief loco like an articulated.

 

Like I said previously, some of these folks have bought the Lionchief starter sets, and they are going to see the 4501 and 611 and 765, and they are going to want to have a model to run around their track. However, chances are, they are not going to have the space or the money for the scale stuff. Heck, why doesn't Lionel approach the Ft. Wayne Historical Society about selling an exclusive set via their on-line store and their commisary car? Perhaps they could do the same with the TVRM and 4501, as the Lionchief Mikado would be perfect for 4501.

 

Perhaps Lionel also needs to consider putting up a display in the big box stores that would include a video screen showcasing the Lionchief features. The folks that are buying these sets at a big box store, have probably never been to an o-gauge shop, and they have no idea what a fan driven smoke unit is, or what the sounds are.

 

I don't know what the ultimate answer is, but they are going to have to think outside the box to make any real headway,

My bet might be the 0-8-0's.... nice engine already and they seem to

be in every catalog....so they must be selling....

 

How about a LC+ upgrade kit ? Maybe minus the electro-coupler to keep

things simple....

 

 

How about a LC transformer.  The clicker would tell the transformer how much power to place on the track, with F-N-R, bell and horn.  LC for people who already have a conv. engine.

Grampstrains, I couldn't agree more! The average American this day and age wants something simple and easy to use. I think a lot of folks are intimidated by the whole DCS/ Legacy thing. They might like trains, they might even build a modest layout, but they don't want to have to deal with programming locomotives and having to use an instruction manual just to access features on their loco. Quite honestly, I think Lionel and MTH are putting more features into their top of the line locos than people really want/ need.

 

I would love to eventually be able to have a smallish layout, but I have no interest in doing lots of wiring and complicated things. I think a lot of people may be in the same boat. They like to run trains, they want to have a nice variety of locos to choose from, but they have no desire to build big, grand layouts.....and probably don't have the means to do so even if they wanted to. I think it's wrong to assume that everyone that comes into the hobby and buys the starter sets and Lionchief stuff wants to eventually build a huge layout and buy $1,000 locos.

 

Lionel is getting back to the basics, and I think that's where the future is. A 4x8 sheet of plywood, a few accessories and some nice trains to run around the track.

A GE 44 ton or similar switcher in multiple road names would be a big seller.  I agree with those who say there is a middle of the economic road sweet spot that Lionel hasn't previously addressed that LionChief and LionChief Plus could address at affordable prices compared with Legacy equipment.  There's no reason that operating accessories with LionChief radio control couldn't be produced as well, if the market demand is there.

This could be the start of something big .

Yup, the RS3 and Geeps are the normal traditional, and therefore scale, versions. I'm a bit fired up about these, having some traditional RSs and Geeps I run. The LC+ RS3s have the diecast fuel tanks instead of the previous high-riding plastic versions, and with those low-hanging fuel tanks they look a LOT better and more prototypical (I have added this diecast fuel tank to an older RS3 I have, and it looks MUCH better). Not to mention that these are can-motored engines with diecast pilot and fuel tank for additional weight so will be better pullers.

 

Also, it'll be possible to swap shells on both the RS3s and Geeps with older engines. I've got several RS3s and Geeps (including some equipped TMCC) that I plan swap the shells and put them on a LC+ chassis to get the can motor and cruise control.

Lionel needs to offer some modern era locomotives as Lionelchief offerings.  A semi scale P42DC, SD70ACe or ES44AC would be great locomotive to offer.  Another idea would be to make a small switcher locomotive like a MP15 or SW1500 with Lionchief. 

Some modern stuff.  I think that kids (myself) would like to have models of what we see working the rails currently.  Sorry, but steam means nothing to me!  Some real transit theme Lionchief subways would be awesome.   Not everyone likes Batman!   And current Amtrak engines.  A semi scale 18" Lionchief Acela Express please, please...  

 "Lionel would do very well to introduce a modern Dash-8 type of semi-scale locomotive for their starter set line up... even just tooling up a shell to go onto a modified standard GP sheet metal frame. Putting a smaller modern locomotive with proportions that are similar to traditional rolling stock I think would do very well in both starter set sales and even as a separate sale item."

 

The CP Rail Grain Train Set released recently is an example of Lionel needing a new General Electric shell for O Gauge operators. They used the old General Electric U36B diesel instead of making a new GE DASH 8 or DASH 9 or AC44CW shell to fit the frame used for the U36B.

 

 

 

 

 

They can produce the General Electric AC44CW diesel-electric locomotive in compressed proportions to operate on O-31 or O-27 radius curves. There are enough railroads that operated the AC44CW to make it worth producing for traditional O gauge operators.

 

The General Electric ES44AC diesel-electric locomotive could also be made at the same time.

 

They can make new truck side-frames that look like the GE trucks.

 

Andrew

I’d like to see Lionel revisit the Milwaukee Special, Broadway Limited, Southern Crescent, Blue Comet, Chicago & Alton, and all the other fantastic Mighty Sound of Steam engines from the MPC era. That would allow all us Cheap SOB’s to finally upgrade our rosters with an affordable remote system.

 

LionChief has brought the remote system to where it should have begun in the first place; Streamlining set up with the least amount of complicated electronics. Allowing for displays to be quickly assembled and disassembled.

 

Come out with a pairable multi-train remote and they’d have an entire new market of returning customers in people who are intimidated by complicated electronics or don’t have a lot of space in their apartments and condominiums.

 

LionChief seems to be pretty reliable so far. If this system was available back in 2005 when Lionel put out their largest RTR set advertising campaign since the MPC era, their returning customer base would be much greater than it is today. There were just too many DOA’s in the sets that came out back in 05.

 

 

I doubt very much if Lionel is going to divert from a single engine remote for their LionChief + items.  What was stated very simply above, Lionel is targeting the entry level market for these trains.  Something simple yet with quality and features of higher grade trains.  There is the Legacy system for multiple train operation, I don't believe we need anything more than this.

 

I do think that, with the overall success of this line of O gauge trains, Lionel will release more and varied  diesel and steam offerings in the future.  That's all I ask for.

 

Remember the term "KISS".  Don't make something that is becoming a great success too complicated.  This line of O gauge trains is not meant for that.

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

Most layouts I think are ping pong sized or less.  You might have at most 2-3 locomotives running at one time.  LC/+ seems to be the right thing for this.

I agree with the folks that say LEAVE IT ALONE! The simplicity is what I love about lionchief! If they were to try and add features it would simply complicate things and add to the price. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if lionel wanted to re-do all of their postwar locos in lionchief form....and maybe add a few modern ones for good measure.

And yes, I think if one were to do a survey about layout sizes, you would find that most are 4x8....maybe some smaller, maybe some slightly larger. I would venture a guess that the huge scale sized layouts are a small portion of the hobby. And furthermore, I don't see that portion getting any larger. If current trends continue, the average American is going to be living in smaller spaces, and have less discretionary income over the next decade. I think o-gauge manufacturers need to plan for that reality. Sure, milk the scale sized/ legacy cow while you can, but be mindful of future trends. There will always be a market for scale locos, with all the bells and whistles, but I don't see that market continuing to grow long term.

Furthermore, I suspect that the number of people willing to spend the time building and wiring complex layouts decreases every year. We are an instant gratification society and everybody wants something that is plug and play so to speak. I believe that o gauge manufacturers might even have some success with "Layouts in box". Something like an Ikea idea where you could have table, track and scenery all in one box. It might sound crazy, but don't discount anything this day and age!

I would hazard a guess that if Lion Chief and Lion Chief Plus sales are a great success over the next  five years, if Lionel doesn't offer a multi-locomotive remote, some aftermarket provider might well do so.  As I've mentioned numerous times, the off the shelf hardware (both receivers and transmitters) for 2.4 GHz radio control is both widely available and inexpensive as the platform for designing and producing such a remote.  The one obstacle might be the need to add a simple board and momentary switch to a locomotive's receiver, which might make the whole thing more complex, expensive and inconvenient.  Nonetheless, I'd be surprised if some hobbyist doesn't do it and publish the method in one of the magazines in the next couple of years, give or take. It should be relatively simple, at least in theory .

That "Layout in a box" is a great idea.  It would be interesting if Lionel partnered up with Ikea and had a layout kit that was more like a piece of furniture.  

Agree with many of the sentiments above.  I started off in O-Gauge about 10 years ago with an inherited PW collection.  I added some semi/non-scale TMCC items to the line-up as time went along, but had LC+ been around, I would've opted for that.

 

On the younger generation, my heart goes out to them for the level of indebtedness from college.  I think a lot of young people got some really bad advice and were suckered into debt that some will never be able to pay back.

 

$1.2T in student loan debt is going to keep young people away from many purchases other than necessities.  I think that'll be a problem for this hobby.