Future of Post War collecting?

It's all junk?   It will all be fried?  Really?

Wow!

For the correct response see the rational and well thought out post above yours.

 

Pete

I don't understand why some post-war fans summarily dismiss all modern trains as "junk".

 

Oddly, they exempt $95 WBB diesels from this characterization.

quote:

I don't understand why some post-war fans summarily dismiss all modern trains as "junk".

 

Probably for the same reason that some operators consistently make insulting comments about collectors paying too much, or not running their trains, etc.

Now that’s funny!  Made my day.

 

(Actually I think the atomic clock posts this topic monthly!). 

Here's my version of the "nobody in their right mind" mindset:

 

"Nobody in their right mind is gonna pay $2K plus for a 'depleting coal load' ."  To me personally that would simply be exponential stupidity, or more cents than sense, but...

 

...there's no such thing as a person in his or her "right mind," trust me.  All depends what you want and how bad you want it.  If you got the money, honey...

 

Pete

 

 

Pre & post-war trains will allway's be collectible. The modern stuff will be junk except my 3rd rail T3 NYC Electric. 

Only left handed people are in their right mind...

 

Lefty(Rusty)

Martin - Not ALL, but most.  The more complex this stuff gets, the more to break, and the more $$ to fix, and the less ma & pa hobby shops qualified to fix the stuff..  The shops around here say they can fix MPC, Williams, & postwar all day, but the new digital stuff has to go back to the factory, and often times repair costs on this new stuff outweighs the value of the unit hence "the paperweight effect."  And Williams makes bomb-proof $90 engines.  Those can motors & metal gears are the best in the industry.

I believe Sam posted a fair question to our Forum members. It was pretty simple and straightforward. Somehow words like "junk" have inevitably worked their way into the subject matter.

 

I have some PW, but keep it primarily for nostalgia reasons. I do not run it. I bought the modern equipment because I like the looks and features for operating purposes. I purchased it for no other reason than to enjoy it and to run it. That has given me all the value I hoped for, and if some consider it to be "junk", so what, I really do not care what you call it as it has given me countless hours of pleasure.

I completely agree.

 

There is some intangible that drew me to post war electric trains. Something that modern toy trains just don't have. I'm sure I'm not alone in my fondness for them, and I think they will be desirable for decades to come. 

There will always be Post War collectors. 

But......I believe the number of collectors has shrunk and will continue to dwindle. 

If you are just starting out, this is a great time for Post War. In 30 years of attending meets, I have never seen the quality and volume that I've seen on ebay. With perhaps a few exceptions, Prices are down and will continue to slowly come down as time continues on.

Modern are nice, but there is something to be said for the simplicity of those PostWar growlers.

You got that right! At York there was a gentleman trying to test a postwar steamer on the test track in the blue hall. He was having a hard time figuring out which rails did what so I lent him a hand. When that e-unit buzzed and clicked and that growl started as the engine began to move we both said the same thing, "You always remember that sound no matter how old you are!" That seems to put it all in a nut shell for those of us who love postwar.

 

Jerry

I run both modern and postwar, with a little prewar thrown in for good measure. I'm 42 and guess I'm a postwar collector. Postwar has a look and a "feel" of being old and durable. Nothing is the same. The conventional classics being a good reference. They're very nice, but they're just not the same as the real thing. Even non train people get the "feel" of postwar Lionel. To me it's a U.S. history lesson. Sheetmetal, die-cast, plastics, and decorating methods that all moved forward with a country that was #1 in the world. Modern trains just don't have that "feel" to me. They "feel" kinda like my toaster, coffee maker, and tv. Made with the cheapest material possible, yet still try to make me think they're quality items. I like my modern Santa Fe scale reefers, but they still feel a little cheap. Hard to describe it.

I run postwar, postwar remakes (WBB) and modern stuff. They're all conventional and I have no desire to run anything else. I also have no space for anything bigger than O-27 (I really should be modelling in N scale but I can't see the $#&^* things), and for that fact alone I'm grateful. Postwar trains aren't scale by any means, but who cares? They're all toys in the end and even if the rivet counters () want to run miniature empires with scale locomotives and salivate over a "depleting coal load" in a locomotive that costs $2500? It's still a toy. No thanks, I'll stick to my 2046, my WBB stuff and Some modern Lionel stuff that doesn't get run much. Also... when my new 0-6-0 docksider is STILL in the shop after 4 months and I got my 2046 and Scout back in 3 days after putting them in for servicing and repairs at the same time, something to be said for the simplicity and durability of these locomotives and rolling stock.

 

Made in America with American steel.

c.sam

 

I find my interests following yours. I am no longer interested in PW stuff, never was a collector though. The new modern command control stuff is what I really like. The detail, sounds, speed control, electronics, etc. really does it for me.  It is what got me back into the hobby a couple years ago.

Lots of interesting comments here fellas and some thought-provoking ideas. To clarify perhaps,  I still like postwar trains in general (have a 1872 General) and ALL trains are interesting to many of us. Was just curious about the future of them for collectors as the older folks pass on.

I have to agree with brr's comments above to a degree about the 'feel' of (some) postwar trains. Heft a NW2 switcher, a decent steamer, or the handsome F3s and you get 'that' feel.  I would say 'not so' with some of the lighter 0-27 stuff and much of what was produced in the later 50s and 60s.

We have an original Marx steam set picked up from the widow of the original owner that is in really good shape. It runs even. I can't get $29 for it on *Bay with FREE shipping!

Had it on here for weeks @ $25 with no interest. What happened to that market...

I agree also.  The look, the feel, the smell (yes, that little layer of ozone that surrounds all postwar trains, ) are something no modern train can duplicate.  You can almost feel the passage of time.

 

To those that are attuned to it, it's wonderful. 

 

Rusty

I began waiting on line at about 11:40 am for York to open on Thursday. I was near the food window by the Kids Club layout intending to start with the Blue hall. I had the good fortune to be standing infront of a man with a three digit TCA membership number. He is a member for over 50 years. In the 1950's as a young person he was interested in all the stuff I would not expect, Ives, standard gauge, clockwork trains etc. I think his field of interest was remarkable and he was an example that you don't have to collect what you were familiar with as a youth- especially since Lionel O gauge was the big thing for kids like him in the in the 1950's.

Also, he made an interesting point. Members in the TCA in the 1950's were mostly older - just like today. There are so few early members left today because they joined when they were older and most have passed on. He was one of the rare one's who joined when he was young and thus is still around. What I took away from the conversation was that the train bug that bites you may give you far flung obscure interests that no one would expect or be able to explain. Also, the hobby has always and will continue to be dominated by older people. I no longer believe that seeing all the old timers in this hobby and in the TCA is a negative sign. On the contrary it is normal and has been going on for decades.

Post war dead, eh?

 

Here's a thread from -- oh, look -- the OGR Forum!

 

Four pages and counting!

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...ostwar-trains?page=1

 

I love the old postwar lionel & marx trains they just are a joy to run ,the sounds & smells bring back good memories ,most of my trains are postwar but I like the scale stuff to and my layout is way more scale than postwar. 

I'm way to cheap to spend $300 to $1500 or more only to have it quit a few months later. So my buying stops at TMCC or PS1.

Our trains have brushless motors? 

 

Don't get me wrong, I wish that they did have brushless motors and Lionel tried at one time to design a brushless motor (Odyssey Motor) for their trains. However, I believe that everyone just uses simple can motors, brushes and all, of various quality for their locomotives.

 

It would be cool if the manufactures went to squirrel cage asynchronous induction motors for their trains. The trains would not only be driven like the reals ones (at least for diesels anyways), the motor would outlast everything.  

An example of what postwar can do to people:

Last month we had a lady come take care of our pets while we went on vacation. My wife talked to her after we returned and she stated she loved the "display trains" in the basement. My wife invited her and her husband over to see the layouts. My "scale" layout is in a spare bedroom, and I have a postwar-style layout in the family room. They were impressed with the scenery on the scale layout, and that the old trains were still operating on the postwar layout.

The next day her and my wife were talking, and she said the scenery was great on the bedroom layout, buy the trains looked "cheap and plasticity". Those are my freeking Atlas reefers, MTH, and modern Lionel scale stuff!

Her and her husband are looking for a postwar Lionel set to display on their mantle now. Hope they don't find one, as I'd like to give them a 2037 set I've had for awhile for Christmas. She does a great job looking after our pets.

There's a "feel" to postwar that just can't be had anymore. People are still gonna buy it, even if it's just to display. It has a feel of quality in a not so quality world.

The reason I made that statement is because I get the impression that a great deal of the people on this forum don't know there are 5 other halls besides the orange & purple hall at York. And Allan, How's the dog? and how are you doing?

That conversation was very interesting - enlightening, actually - for me to read. You guys know stuff I do not, and it is nice to be made aware of such up-to-date considerations and viewpoints by people more currently informed than I.

FrankM

Probably Eddie. Even though my interest is primarily new trains, I always make a trip to the other halls. I appreciate the trains that have come before and sometimes you never know what catches your eye. 

Who says Post War is dead? I am 56 and have all PW style trains. From my 1950's era childhood trains all the way up to what is made now. I have no interest in all the hi-tech trains being made. Again, this is just MY choice. I do not want the expensive trains of today and then the future hassle of worrying about where to get sound boards and other electronic repair items in the future. My PW trains can be repaired inexpensively and quickly, no waiting or searching for parts.

   My son is 32, near your age of 34 Christopher, and he told me that he was going to buy a train for his Christmas Tree. His girlfriend was going to buy him one of those cheap plastic dime store trains and he said "No", I want a train like my Dad's. I want a Lionel under the tree. So I gave him my mint condition Lionel Great Lakes Burlington Route set from 1981 (the year he was born). I also gave him an oval of FasTrack, wire and a transformer. He was thrilled. Two weeks ago he went to his first train show since he went with me as a child. Hopefully, he has a new hobby!

   Now I have to admit that the only freight cars which I buy now are scale O from MTH Premier, Lionel and Atlas O Trainman. They go nicely with the Williams by Bachmann diesels which I have been buying for the last 4 to 5 years. In January I received my Lionel PW Classic Berkshire Passenger set and I think it is awesome!

    My current layout in my basement will be for scale sized trains. I have plans for my other son's bedroom when he moves out. The room is 11'6" x 16'6" and will contain a Post War style layout with tubular track.

    Cobrabob.

Remember this poll Gunrunner John did?"

 

What kind of model train control system do you have.

TMCC	54 votes	22%
Legacy	54 votes	22%
DCS	48 votes	20%
Both TMCC/Legacy and DCS	63 votes	26%
Other Command System	6 votes	2%
Conventional Only	69 votes	29%
Wind-Up	1 vote	0%
Battery Power	2 votes	0%
DCC	2 votes	0%

 

Conventional got the highest votes. Must be SOME interest in post war left.

This has been good stuff, need a full bowl of popcorn for sure.

 

To each their own, live and let live, or die, or whatever may come of it all.  I have always been glad that my enjoyment of something doesn't necessitate others' approval of it.

 

I do enjoy playing with my trains though!

Shattering the stereotype, I'm an under-40 collector/runner who feels bulletproof postwar stuff is the way to go.

 

Something anecdotal... last year I purchased a non-operational Legacy GP-30 with toasted boards for under $100.  A quick trip to my local electronics repair wiz for gutting and an e-unit, and now I've got what I call my 'scale postwar' GP-30.    Beautiful runner for under $130 total.  Hoping to do this again when the opportunity arises.

 

And yes, I realize turning a command engine into conventional really has nothing to do with postwar; just having a bit of fun with it. 

I don't believe that any form of collecting will die. Hobbies based on collecting go through peaks and valleys just like any other market. I have watched this proven by the comic book market and I think,PW trains will be the same.

 

I agree that many collect PW trains because they are nostalgic of childhood memories but I think it is a mistake to assume that as the PW generation passes that the desire to relive those memories will fade. I am only 41 but I can assure you that my first memory of an electric train is my father's Marx and that the smell of ozone brings back the same memories as I'm sure it does for him. Those memories are now something that spans generations and that I have passed on to my son. He often forgoes the layout to set up Grampa's train on a big oval on the floor so he can lay there and move his head away at the last second, as I'm sure we all did at one time. I can assure you that when he is grown he will pass the memories and the desire to own those trains on to the next generation.

 

One should also consider that once involved in the hobby it is difficult to resist obtaining early examples of what you love. Whether it's cars, shotguns, comic books or trains, I believe that the interest will always be there. Although I enjoy modern diesel trains with command control and I love sounds, I still find myself always keeping an eye out to find great examples of Marx and Lionel trains that would have been on my dad's Christmas list in the 50s.  My father's family couldn't afford to buy Lionel trains for the youngest child of their seven, but I will always remember him talking about wanting one and it gives me great pleasure to find and buy those trains now to enjoy together with three generations.

 

I apologize for the long post but wanted to add something that I felt was positive to this thread. To answer the original poster's question the future of PW collecting will go through cycles like any other free market and hopefully people like us can continue to find some peace in our childhood love of trains.

 

Jay in Ottawa

 

Spot on.

Postwar will always be collectable because there is so little of it. If you look at a Greenbergs price guide there is only 40 pages of prewar, 40 pages of postwar and 300 pages of modern, now take away the track and transformers, cheap items and the like and you are left with a small amount, like 20 pages to collect. The reason mint boxed unrun postwar sells so high is it is so rare, in the modern items it is rare to find it run, most is mint in the box. I am sure some postwar values will drop, but not the mint stuff.

My recollection of postwar trains are jerky stops and starts, and sparks flying as my GG-1 collected track pins from the Super-O track as it rushed along and flew off the tracks on corners.   A friend at work brought in his old Lionel steamer and we almost set the rug on fire running it around a loop!

 

I now enjoy modern command control trains and that's what got me back into the hobby.  I enjoy them, until, they have a problem that can't be readily addressed with a small screwdriver!

 

With simplicity of use I can see the allure of postwar trains.

 

Some of the asking prices I see for pw stuff seems very high for what I feel it is worth.  Then again, what's the modern stuff going to be worth in a couple of years?

 

 

Not sure where you live, but it seems quite the opposite is true here in St. Louis.  Last few shows I went to (St. Louis, MO, Collinsville, IL, and Belleville, IL) were swarming with kids.  Hoards of them.  While it's great to see so much young blood in the hobby, show manners have gone from "excuse me," "oh, pardon me," "may I have a look," etc. to push > shove > cut in front    ...especially when daddy has his checkbook open.  -Scott

Train collecting is and will continue to go through cycles of pricing and demands increasing and decreasing just like the classic car industry. I have seen prices go up and down on British cars, European cars, Brass, and then muscle cars became popular and demand drove those prices really high while other categories fell flat and values went down. Just like collecting cars collecting trains is one of preference and what values the buyer feels is fair. Postwar collecting will ebb and flow just like the classic collector car industry. I run everything from pre-war to the newest and just really enjoy it all. All types of trains, pre-war, post-war, new, etc. have their advantages and disadvantages but they all make me smile. Isn't that the reason we do this?

My recollection of postwar trains are jerky stops and starts, and sparks flying as my GG-1 collected track pins from the Super-O track as it rushed along and flew off the tracks on corners.

....Which is why I ditched my postwar stuff long ago when TMCC/DCS came along.  Postwar items in good shape are very nice to look at--I have enjoyed visiting folks and viewing their collections.  From an operating point of view, there is no comparison between postwar and the Command-equipped modern trains, which run as smooth as silk as oppsoed to the postwar stuff.

 

I would say there is an age when you are you are most open to new things and they tend to stay with you in later life. Even if it is just subconsciously.  

It could just be a image on TV or in a magazine. For me I reckon this was around 1982. I saw Lionel in the Sears Wishbook and a De Lorean on TV! 

 

I like the modern high tech stuff but I also collect the odd bit of postwar that I find in the UK. It's more like I rescue the postwar items and fix them! 

 

I also like the prewar standard gauge but I have to draw the line somewhere.

 

I think their will always be a market for Postwar as well as TMCC and DCS trains. But I do think you will see a market correction over the next few years. There are way more trains availble than people can afford to buy. So you will see prices drop until the excess is gone. If ever. I see customers and family memebers that come in asking what they are going to do with all the trains that they or their family member has. You have guys that have been hoarding trains for 20 years starting to pass and having health  issues. So you will see lots of items availble for sale over the next few years with less people wanting to tuck them away in their closet. Its not the end but just a sign of the times. Look at baseball cards they never died but they are not sought after like they used to be..But trains do have funtion and can be enjoyed weather they are collectable or not.. So enjoy them..