Future of ScaleTrax

I sometimes wonder... I've been waiting for going on a year for some #4 switches that I ordered from a dealer here in Ohio.  I'm beginning to think that MTH doesn't understand that all the trains and accessories that they sell aren't worth anything unless they have a good track system to go with them.

I'm waiting for the # switches too! Hello MTH!!

Yes PaulG.  I am in the same boat.  Purchased many #4s and #6s about two years ago and luckily it was enough to take care of the perimeter. I would like to complete my main yard and engine facility though.  I don't want to change track systems, but if MTH will not support their track system, what is one to do? I will change to either Atlas or Gargraves/Ross.  I'm still hoping though.  Can't get any word from MTH.

Engineer Joe,

 

If DCS support starts waning as it appears ScaleTrax support has, you may be going back to DCC.

Explains why I very rarely see the #4 and #6 turnouts on eBay and when they show up they're going for above retail. The sectional track and bumpers seem to be plentiful.

AGHRMatt,

 

Yes, I know.  Every time I have seen them for sale I have definitely paid more than MSRP for them.  But I did get them.  You do what you have to do.

I have been with DCS for over ten years. It's not waning. It's growing! I have plenty of new stuff to prove that!

IMO, work with what is available.  Ross can adapt to any three rail track system.

 

This hobby has so many alternative offerings we have nothing to fear.  The sole concern is on the individual importers ability to deliver.

 

When a product is manufactured in the US by a strong free standing company delivering value we have the best of all worlds.  Your glass is full.

Rich B. used the MTH Track in his video and I has a rock solid interest in using MTH. I send a list out as an RFP to 5 ~ 6 dealers to get a price quote. Crickets because they could not get everything I wanted. I say Mike and his team at York in the spring can pretty much said to him -"obtaining track and switched is a problem, not to mention, you offer a software package on CD that no one has including you. I have been told repeatedly the CD is in production. What's the story?" I did not get the answer I wanted so I walked over to Atlas and gave them a list - they directed me to a bunch of dealers as well. 

 

My frustration is now to the point that I will go back to GarGraves and Ross with my list and see what they can offer. The only saving grace is that I purchased a Mill House River Turn Table in May and the BB in December so I have had to do some re design. So maybe the delay is a blessing.

 

Wish now I purchased the 32 or 34 inch Mill House River TT as the big boy won't fit on the TT. I have not opened the TT, might sell it and buy a new one just bigger or I will just have the approach track line up where I can pull the BB into the RH.

 

Agree with the comments - Trains need track to run on and that needs to be on every manufacturers radar.

Perhaps MTH needs a lecture on meeting consumer demand/following through on delivering promised goods in a timely manner like the other manufacturers seem to get...   

 

Or maybe, once the switches finally show up after a looooong waiting period (with the inevitable price increase), the pent-up demand will cause a stampede of buyers oblivious to the higher sticker price, causing a sell-through of the entire production run to occur - maybe I should stop so I don't give MTH any ideas for marketing strategy.

That's actually an EXCELLENT strategy!  Have you seen the ad Ross is running in OGR?  I don't subscribe to OGR magazine anymore, so I don't know how long the ad has been running.  I just saw it yesterday when I previewed the first few pages of the digital copy of the December issue.  The Ross ad was a couple of pages in.  And while I'm not always a big fan of direct product comparisons for ad purposes, I thought the Ross ad hit a home run and was effective with no exaggerations as far as I could see.

 

The "Made in the USA" theme was well executed, because it emphasized the reliable nature of product availability in the States as well as overall price competitiveness.  My next layout -- which will be a combination of Standard Gauge and O-Gauge in a hi-rail setting will use Ross turnouts and Gargraves track.  And possibly USA Track LLC for the Standard Gauge.  Bottom line... All track will be made right here in the USA.

 

The other systems were fine when supply was reliable, but those days appear to be history.  When did waiting YEARS for track components become business as usual?    Bad enough that happens with locos and rolling stock... but the sparseness of track product with some of these systems on such a regular basis now is unforgivable. 

 

As the old Lee Iacocca commercials emphasized years ago... Either lead, follow, or get out of the way.  Right now, the track systems from Atlas-O and MTH are a distraction and can't be taken seriously until product availability improves dramatically.  So until that can realistically happen -- and if you don't already have mucho dollars invested in them, why even consider them -- especially for a new layout? 

 

In short, Ross/Gargraves is the definitive choice for O-Gauge, and Ross/Gargraves/USA Track LLC are the key players for Standard Gauge today... IMHO, of course.

 

David

A couple years back I asked Mike Wolf of MTH at the TCA museum presentation  - If there was going to be any additional / new pieces (different switches, larger fixed radius curves, Y switches etc. ) of scaletrax made.  He told the group - point blank NO.  Really like the look of scaletrax - But seems no support.

This would be a good question for the DCS users group meeting at York.

Ralph

Is 'NO' still the answer from Mr MTH himself? If so, that's sad. I hope there is a better response if you guys can press the issue at the DCS group meeting at York.

ScaleTrax is a really good product and has a lot of potential for people wanting a better appearing track system. As nice as Atlas is, the large size of the rails with the large center rail is somewhat overwhelming and appears 'crowded' compared to the smaller, lower profile outer rails and center 'blade' of ScaleTrax.  ScaleTrax gives our equipment a more massive appearance than any other 3 rail track system out there. Track is important and MTH owes it to their (loyal) customer base that has bought it to continue production and hopefully expansion of the line..

I like the look and height of Scaletrax (from a distance...don't like the plastic ties), and have some $ invested in it.  I also do not like its incompatible means of connection, while it HAS to have compatibility, if some commonly used versions, per rrgeorge's Wolf quote above, will not be offered.  Menards, newly sticking their big toe into the icy water, know that they have to have track on which to run trains, and are

ginning some up.

I hope that someone going to York presses Mike on the importance of supporting the ScaleTrax system.  About a year ago, I placed a large order for ScaleTrax (including 2 each of the 45-1050 and 45-1051 #4 LH and RH switches in order to make a double-crossover for a layout I designed using the ScaleTrax library in the RR-Track software design package.  After going over the design for a large period of time, I sent the ScaleTrax order to a dealer who offered a good package deal.  I received everything except for the #4 switches which he back-ordered.  I was told they would be in stock within a couple of months.  Well, a couple months went by and the 45-1051 switches came in and were charged to me and sent to me with the words that the 45-1050 switches would be in a couple of months (I was told that they were sitting on a ship somewhere on the West coast).  After a couple of months ago, I called the dealer and was told that MTH told him they were still on back-order.  I contacted MTH and got the same story.  The bottom line is that I put a lot of money into a track design that I cannot complete as designed because the manufacturer is willing to advertise the availability of certain components even though they don't seem to exist.  I now have a layout that is only partially functional as designed.  I'd really rather not integrate another track system (i.e. Gargraves) into my ScaleTrax system as it will look out of place.  I know that the dealer I am working with is in the same boat as me when it comes to getting information such as availability and shipping schedules from MTH... so I'm not blaming him.  It all goes back to MTH.  They have got to do a better job of following through.

Well, enough of my rambling ranting... it just felt good to release some frustrations I have had over this whole ScaleTrax mess.  I hope someone can sensitize MTH to this issue and get them to get serious.  And as one of the earlier posters said... we won't even talk about the one to two year back-orders on engines.

Whew... I think I'll go have a cold one! 

 

Paul

No argument there at all, Sam.  I was nearly sold on ScaleTrax a couple of times.  Rich Battista's videos, along with some layouts the Heikel brothers are doing as well, are all inspirational examples of what can be done with ScaleTrax.    If MTH would have only followed through with more turnout components in the "system". 

 

But when you compare ScaleTrax to Atlas-O and then to Ross Custom Switches, you can sense the lack of commitment MTH has had over the years in terms of developing ScaleTrax as a full-featured "system".  Had MTH executed on this concept, they would have had no competition in the market.  But they held back, and dropped the ball.

 

David

 

 

I was in a train shop in MD this summer and they had #4's for full list.  Matter of fact most everything was full list. 

 

I am heavily invested in Scaletrax too and was inspired by Rich Batista's videos.  At the time Scaletrax (especially the switches) were very attractively priced compared to competitors.  I was buying #4's and #6's for $35 - $45 which was a deal when compared to others.  Local stock was hard to come by but the internet fixed that problem.

 

After building and using Scaletrax for over 6 years, if I were to do it all over again I would use something else.  While it does look great, not all the pieces always "fit like a glove".  It easily breaks when trying to snap it together with needle nose pliers too.

 

If you only have some of the track you need and are considering how to mate the Scaletrax with Atlas (or Others), my son did this a little while back.  If you are interested, email me and I will send you some photos.

 

Just curious about all this banter about MTH supporting a track system for use with their trains.  Does anyone ever complain to Ross or Gargraves because they don't actually manufacture trains to run on their track? 

 

Have Fun!

Ron

 

 

 

It would be good if you laid that nonsensical analogy on Ross and Gargraves, and you can be the first to complain to them about it. Let us know how that goes. 

Mike Wolf don't care about Scaletrax....if he did, you could get it, and there would be more than #4 and #6 switches. Gargraves and Ross is readily available, and more to choose from when it comes to turnouts, thats why we used it. Not to mention the price. It's been around forever, and still works great. MTH and Atlas are just left out in the cold...actions speak for themselves, especially no action.

Originally Posted by: breezinup

Of course, that's not analogous at all to the situation being complained about, given that MTH makes trains and track, and actively promoted and sold their track to go with their trains. However, perhaps it would be good if you were the first to complain to Ross and Gargraves about not manufacturing trains. Let us know how that goes. 

Just my attempt at some snarky humor breezinup.  I don't really believe the lack of train production from those two companies to be an issue or a problem.  The point really is if MTH decides the Scaletrax line is not profitable, we all have other options to fall back on.  It's not like we couldn't run trains.  Even though my layout is all Scaletrax, I'm not broken up that I can't get more because it's hard to find it or it may never be produced again.  Other than the looks, it's not a very good track system.

 

Ron

 

I'll take the hit!

I think it would be good if Ross and Gargraves released a modern product that looks better.

 I like their ties. I believe the track profile hurts their sales and new customers. Although the older crowd here likes the look they grew up with, it is now outdated.

 If I were a new customer to O scale, and looked at their product, I would move on. Looks do matter to a lot of customers. MTH offered a newer alternative to the old looking, out of scale rail. Users come up with all the reasons they don't like it. I believe a lot of them, are just justifying why they won't switch.

 Coming from HO scale first, the look of the O scale tubular style track, reminds me of being stuck in the fifties! I looked at displays at train shows and thought I'd never come to O scale. That large tubular silver track was horrible looking to me.

 So go ahead and attack my comments, I believe that they are true. I went to a show at Syracuse. No one was at the Gargraves booth. It is a great product. I just feel it's time has past. A would bet that's why some new guys go straight to 2 rail for the looks of the rail.

Recently, I've been thinking about tearing down my layout and starting a new one.  Again I'm just considering it because I really like the building part of it and there is nothing left to do on mine.  I'm getting bored.  If I do, and MTH does not support ScaleTrax I can't go to Atlas, Ross or Gargraves because I feel it stepping backwards as far as realism goes, and I will likely switch to two rail. 

 

I don't really want to switch to 2-rail for many reasons including the fact that I will have to sell all my steam engines and 3 rail diesels since I don't want to convert them. 

 

I just wish MTH would re-tool and make all the changes that would make Scaletrax the best 3-rail track out there.  That would include moving the ties a little closer, adding different radius curves and new switches, and improving the switch machine looks and even having an under the table mount option.  I personally don't need newer radius curves since I like the flex track, but I want the track to be successful so it has a future.  I know Scaletrax was doomed from the start because of these limitations, but knowing what we know now, I think MTH can create a new line that would include all the improvements and dominate the market and be profitable no matter what the investment is.

 

Rich 

Many of the posts above explain the reasons why I chose Ross and Gargraves for my first layout....they were pretty much the only game in town at that time...way back in the late 80's.

 

When I built my current layout I decided to try something new...Atlas track!  In no deference to the other manufacturers, I simply wanted to try a new system so went forward with the Atlas track and switches because of the limited options that the MTH system had at the time.  I liked the spacing of the ties and while the rail height was more than the MTH track, it didn't bother me since I was used to Ross/Gargraves.  I have learned that if one is willing to paint the sides of the middle rail a color that matches the ballast rather than the same color as the outside rails, the middle rail seems to look much better that way.  All in all, I am happy with my decision....

 

Alan

That line of track must not be generating enough steady sales to make it worthwhile to produce it so the supply remains consistent.  If sales were strong, the supply of track would be there.  As it looks right now, retooling and improving the line must not be a priority; maybe MTH is quietly working on changes, maybe not.  It's a shame it didn't catch on with more buyers - the folks who decided to build large layouts with it look like they're going to have to scour Ebay and auctions to expand their boards.

Rich,

 

Could not have said it better. Need rails to run engines. The option are other manufacturers with readily available stock. 

Rich,

Your layout is one of the high water marks so it would be a shame to see it go but I understand that it's more of the "chase" that interests you. Funny as most of the guys here would probably rather be in your shoes - having a finished layout with nothing to do but run trains.

 

Regarding Scaletrax - I agree. When it arrived on the scene, I thought that we might finally have a great 3 rail system that looked of the right proportion under a train - that is, until I saw the tie spacing and detail. I do wish they would correct the issues and relaunch aggressively. It would be my choice for any permanent layout.

Hey Alan. 

 

The forum is for helping people out, sharing comments and experiences - no hit needed. 

I too, will echo Rich's comments above and have personally been a strong supporter of scaletrax. I've proposed here that someone should consider coming out with a new track system with MTH rails and center blade and something similar to Atlas ties and they would certainly have a winner.  Investment too high?  Perhaps.

 

In all likelihood, fellas wanting the realism that scaletrax teased us with will probably move to 2 rail...

???...I thought that was what I did in my post above...???

I want scale LOOKING track to go with scale-plate engines we now have (took forever to get those).  I do not want tubular track, unless I am building a traditional, nostalgic, layout running Hafner or Marx wind-ups, pre-WWI tinplate, etc.  I have never liked Lionel O track, preferred O-27 for appearance, and you could get that in some radius choices, etc., from others.  Menards is just now promising the large

O scale track, but they are testing the waters, so something else might come later.  For me, and, we can see on here that tastes differ, I want solid, nickel silver (or somehow rust free rails, in a profile like Scale-trax, (no Sequoia log ties) but wooden ones in scale separation (not three ties to a section)  I don't want to have to bury

my track in ballast, or paint rails as suggested above!  I do remember that it took

way too long for HO to get away from unrealistic brass rail to nickel silver.  Gargraves

needs to be run through a planer to cut the tie height down a half.  Ross is tubular,

with the tie height.  A lot of three rail track systems stand out.  It should not...much of it, on the  prototypes, is buried in cinders and grass (at least away from the Class 1 main lines).  Of course, to make a new track system, for existing companies, probably

takes machine investments they don't want to or can't afford to make.  And then, whatever is (would be) offered should be compatible or easily made compatible, say

only requiring different pins, with the traditional (tubular) track (which I don't want any of on MY layout).  My dream track is not rocket science to develop. It's being done, bits and pieces, by different companies but not with many qualities in one system.  Components need to be assembled correctly.  Lower ties would use less wood and be

cheaper.  Economics 101:  Supply and demand...it ain't workin' for track.  End of rant.

 

Your analogy is flawed.  I don't recall that Ross or GarGraves promised to make trains that would run on their track.  That's not their business.  MTH did.

From what I've observed over the past 10-12 years, MTH's behavior with ScaleTrax is a pattern.  They move into a business area, promote it heavily, take whatever profit they can get, and then move on.  Expansion (once the initial hoopla is over), sustainment, support, etc. are not really priorities.  That's my not-so-humble opinion, of course.

 

My guess is that ScaleTrax has had it's 15 minutes of fame.

 

If I were invested in it, I would be burning Mike Wolf's ears off with complaints.

 

George

Mike really ought to get back into production here. Dave and Ted Hikel have/still do work with MTH in design and software and use scaletrax in their layout construction. The Northwest Trunk Lines is one of the finest 3 rail layouts in the country as is Rich Battista's. You'd think that with these premiere layouts that are so prominently displayed to the hobby Mike would do all he can to support them!

If I rebuilt my layout I was seriously considering Scaletrax simply because Rich Battista's videos re-kindled my desire to create something more realistic.  Unfortunately ther theme of this thread makes it clear that obtaining product would be difficult.  Ross switches remain the gold standard for quality and selection, Gargraves or Atlas seem to be the track of choice if realism is desired.  

This can has really been kicked down the road. A lot of questions and complaining but few answers. If realistic track is such a big deal HAND LAY it. Use what ever ties and rails you like.

Has anyone every hand laid track for a 3 rail model rr?  The magazine that deals primarily with 2 rail O scale has had numerous examples of this but I have never seen a 3 rail example.  From what I gather from this thread, MTH developed a desirable product (for some) then failed to flesh out the product line.  I for one feel GG, Atlas and Scaltrax are far superior in appearance to the inappropriately named Realtrax, Fastrack or tubular but then that is a personal preference.  Different strokes for different folks.

Last Christmas season I took my son to the Hagerstown RR Museum.  The Christmas layout was O Scale 2 rail track and they hand laid HO rail as the center rail.  It looked good.

 

Perhaps that is an alternative for the scale enthusiasts.

 

Ron

 

http://www.roundhouse.org/Mult...ainsOfChristmas.html

We ask for scale this and scale that,however there is simply no way to get a three rail track system to go with it. Perhaps it is time for many of us to go two rail. Let's hope we can make our basements larger.
Romiller49