Future of ScaleTrax

You know what kills me?  Whenever we discuss topics like this, topics that really mean something to us, rarely do we ever hear from the manufacturer. Rarely do I recall someone from MTH, Lionel, Atlas, say anything to contribute facts to our discussion. I've been so disappointed in the manufactures and with the lack of availability on certain products. I'll budget for an engine  or two or three only to find out that the release date has been pushed back another 6 months or nixed altogether. And sometimes things come up and then the money has to go elsewhere. Now what? Sorry Mr retailer?   I guess we just accept this kind of behavior from the manufactures. It's sad, but we do it.  I've been tossing around this track debate for awhile now and I realise that as scale modelers there is a line that each of us need to set in terms of how scale we go, but honestly track shouldn't be one of them. So its  Scaletrax or 2 rail.  I've been thinking of going two rail, but there again, no readily available 2 rail signals, track and switch availability, stuck with really only MTH engines. Ok maybe some Atlas, but still geesh. I know this doesn't affect everyone, but honestly my beef is how its handled by the manufacturer. Never any word. I really hope that someone going to York will ball up and lay into MTH and others for selling us a bill of goods and delivering only a fraction of the order. If I were going I would. I have no problem speaking my mind especially with manufactures. I am, afterall the customer.  Maybe Ross will hear us and bury the others by coming out with a track that appeals to the scale community. I'd be in with no reservations.

The old timers in the 30s and 40s made or laid their own track. Sometimes used an outside rail for power. Look it up in the old magazines.

If you can find MTH turnouts, they average $90.00 per - right now and surely will climb because of the pent up demand. My brother just paid over $400.00 including shipping for 4. 

If you had the pleasure of seeing Elliot's layout before he dismantled it, he used Atlas O 3RL and it looked great. I saw it in person, thanks Elliot. I think he told me I was the last one to visit and photograph it. Made me re think using Atlas O. Many not be 100 % scale and I am not interested in laying my own track, but it did look fantastic. He painted and weathered it, added the ballast. While the track was an important part of the layout what was really top notch was the scenery. 

 

So what have I done, purchased  enough track to make a 6 ft oval with Atlas O, GarGraves, Ross and if I can find ScaleTrax I will do the same. I want to see them all next to each other before I go forward with a full blown purchase. That is if I can find ScaleTrax,

 

 

All you MTH track guys, to the back of the line...us Atlas guys were here first! 

 

I finally gave up all hope on the slow boat from China.  I've committed to GarGraves.

 

Had I sat down to compose my feelings about product availability, I couldn't have done a better job than was done by Marc C.  Bravo!

 

Bruce

 

This discussion is one big reason I chose tubular.  These marketing organizations(not mfrs!)  get you in a box with their products. When I decided to build a layout I bought some Gargraves but my old Lionels didn't like it, looked at the other stuff and I was not impressed. Especially the "roadbed" and joints they used plus the cost. What good is realism if you can't get the track you want so you can run trains ??  A shame.

At the risk of playing semantics, we will NEVER hear from the "manufacturer" because they're half way around the globe manufacturing stuff without even the slightest clue as to what it's used for!    It's just "stuff" to them. 

 

A big part of the problem these days is the Stateside component of companies like Lionel, MTH and Atlas-O is a mere shadow of what many of us still think these companies are in our mind.  Perception is everything, and they WANT us to believe they're driving the bus... when in fact we've reached a critical stage nowadays where stuff is catalog'd... orders are taken... and then we can only imagine product managers scrambling and mumbling under their breath, "Oh crap... now we gotta find somebody half way around the globe to actually build the stuff we catalog'd!"    

 

That's not to say there's no talent Stateside.  But the toy train companies here in the USA are essentially just IMPORTERS -- with little to no idea of WHEN products will be delivered...  and in some cases, with insufficient certainty as to exactly WHAT will actually be produced.    It's sad for us as consumers, and it's gotta be very frustrating for the model train company employees working here in the USA and dealing firsthand with the overseas nonsense.

 

In one sense, this is one of the best times to be in the O-Gauge train hobby.  But in the same breath, it's very much one of the most frustrating times too.

 

Oh well....  Certainly not perfect, but there's still LOTS to be happy about in this wonderful corner of the world. 

 

David

I went with Ross and Gargraves over twenty years ago and I never really looked at the other systems other then around the tree displays. 

Scale track and Atlas track came out about that time and I thought they looked great but as I stated on these pages I never really felt our hobby could support such a large amount of system choice as we have today, so I resisted the urge to convert.

That said I also stated about ten years ago that that most of these systems would be gone in a couple of years and other then K-Line I turned out to be full of hot air. So you must take what I say with grain of salt.

 

In the present case with MTH maybe they are just having production problems. One of the big issues with off shore manufacturing is the unreliability of supply. I would venture to guess that one day we will have a tidal wave of Scale track hit the shelves all at once. Just like Williams did with their product line, you would not see a particular engine for years but then all at once said item is on every shelf in the country, in ten different road names.  Until that supply was cleared out and a real demand is developed no more would be produced for a number of years.

This policy makes sense because because the larger the production numbers the lower the cost per item. In short I say be patient, your track will be here one of these days. Right after I get my 44 tonner!

 

But, then again I am the guy who said all these systems would fade away ten years ago so what do I know?

See, MTH knows that the future is battery and RC, and they are secretly planning a slightly more realistic track system.

 

Opinion.

I wholeheartedly agree with what Rich is saying here. And if such a track system had been available 12 years ago when I switched to 2R I would probably be a 3 railer today.

 

 

For those of you who are interested, similar discussions occurred in HO in the 1950s and 1960s.  Atlas sectional track was the equivalent of Fastrack for the mainstream and they sold a ton of it.  The perfectionists handlaid their track.  It seems to me there are plenty of choices in our hobby, none perfect.  But there's Lionel Fastrack for those for whom that works, and Ross/Gargraves for those who don't want to handlay track.  Atlas has been a good choice too, but they've run into production issues, apparently.  For those of you who love Scaletrax, you'll have to buy a lot of it on the secondary market at best.  These companies do what they think is feasible and profitable, and that's that.

I am in between layouts and would like to go with Atlas track.  Last word I got was that the switches would ship in November.  If the shipping is delayed again, I will go with Ross/Gargraves as it is readily available.  If anyone has updates regarding the availability of the Atlas switches, please let us know, thanks.

I like the look of MTH Scaletrax and I really enjoyed Rich Battista's videos demonstrating how to use it, but the lack of product forces me to choose other options.

Jim,

 

If your are going to York next week the entire Atlas team will be there. Jim Kimble, Patricia, Steve and more. Might want to mosey on by along with your Golden Spike Club number and ask while you visit them.

 

That's my plan including trying to get an answer from MTH on the viability and commitment to ScaleTrax. If these folks don't feel it is profitable to make track, then make a statement as to the support of the product or get out of the business and stop making it difficult. It is a simple question and a simple answer ---In and Committed to the market or No, we are out. 

 

I will visit Ross and Gargraves as well.

It would be great if one or more people who are going to York would approach MTH and try to get an answer as to whether or not they are going to support ScaleTrax (in a timely fashion) or not.  As PSU1980 said, it's a simple answer... either you are or you're not.  If you're not, quit leading people on with all the advertising on your home website promoting ScaleTrax!  They sold me on it (and I still think it COULD BE a good track system) and now I feel like a chump!  MTH is certainly leaving a sour taste in my mouth...

When I returned to the model railroading in 1992 the only track I had was the Lionel O Gauge tinplate track from the 1950's, I saw the Gargrave 3-Rail Phantom track at the Dupage County Train show in Wheaton,IL. and made the decision to use this track. The reasoning for this decision was Gargraves has been in business many years, the track is made in the United States, price was good, the flex track easy to form curves and finally the wooden ties.

 

I also have many of their uncoupling tracks and most of my switches both left hand and right hand are Gargraves. For special switches I use Ross, both companies Gargraves and Ross, based on my contact experiences are very good to deal with concerning questions or when ordering components. 

 

Lionel Fastrack or Gargraves track are the only two that have a good selection of track already here in the USA. 

I think you are being optimistic trying to get a direct answer out of a business like that. They hardly ever let themselves get pinned down on an issue.

You forgot Ross Custom Switches, who has a far greater selection than either Lionel Fastrack or Gargraves.

Well it seems there are many fellow modelers who feel the same way I do.  Many of you have been more patient than me.  My inquiries to MTH have fallen on def ears.  Some or any feedback from MTH may produce the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel for us who have been waiting for a very long time.  Silence seems to seal the fate of ScaleTrax.  I just looked through the latest catalog where MTH is touting ScaleTrax as the finest track system on the market.  Empty words.

 

I am going to start or should I say restart the process of redesigning my layout using Gargraves/Ross or Atlas although the latter track system seems to be experiencing the same issues as ScaleTrax.  Dimensionally the #4 and #6 turnouts from Ross and Atlas seem to have a different footprint than the ScaleTrax #4 and #6 when using RR Track software.  My layout design is already dimensionally challenged so I hope if I make the decision to switch track systems I won't have to give up real estate.

 

For the time being, I'm going to wait to see if MTH will honor their commitment to their consumers.  I'll give them another year as I will be getting ready to move to a new location and I am sort of at idle and not in the building stage.  I am also going to incorporate the ScaleTrax modules I have completed with the "new" track system if that's how things turnout.

 

For the time being though, the HO, S Gauge and European markets are providing MTH with a steady revenue stream.  Presently MTH may see ScaleTrax as a black hole for money and further commitment to supporting the track will wane and finally disappear.

 

Thank you to all who contributed to the thread.  I do feel your pain.

I just discovered how to purchase some ScaleTrax 031 turnouts.  You have to buy the gondolas and flatcars with the turnout loads.  Why didn't I think of that earlier?

I'd like to add my 2 cents here. I have two levels on my layout, so far. Atlas on the lower elevation and Scaletrax on the upper. I just went to trainworld.com and and typed Scaletrax in their search window. It looked like everything was available except the #4s and #6s, but my layout is so small I don't use them anyway. Might be worth a try. I've also called my order into them to get an availability/quantity status. 

 

George (G3)

Atlas track and Ross Custom Switches.  Absolutely beautiful.  No regrets and it all works like clockwork.  That is my gold standard.  BigRail

Can someone post some pics of atlas track used with Ross switches? I see occasional posts here with positive feedback but I've yet to see how it looks and can't see how the two very different tie sizes and tie spacings would appear seamless.

 

I recently asked MTH about the #4s and #6s on Facebook and they said that they expected shipment in Nov.

 

A few years ago I asked about expanding the ScaleTrax turnout offerings and MTH told me that they felt that they had all the turnouts they needed because they wouldn't see a return on investment to create curved turnouts, slip switches, wyes, etc...

 

I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

What this hobby needs is a new more realistic 2 rail high rail track system. Track power or Battery power doesn't matter to me as I'm fine with both. Someone needs to step up and offer a new 2 rail track system as an alternative for those of us that don't want a 3rd rail anymore. The trains can operate on the same curvature as 3 rail. I've been saying it for years... There is no technical reason for the 3rd rail anymore. Just a lot of people with lots of 3 rail trains. Does that mean that we should never move away from the 3rd rail? I don't think so.

 

I have a basement full of 3 rail trains, but I would immediately start buying new 2 rail hi-rail track and new trains to run on them if I had the choice. I had planned on doing just that with American Flyer S scale, but Lionel has since dropped the ball.

 

I'm 41 and I plan on buying trains for quite a while longer. I AM the future demographic.

 

Just my opinion of course.

Two rail track for O gauge just does not look right to me.  Maybe I've been brainwashed from so many years of three rail but three rail (hi rail) layouts always look better to me than two rail.  I know that goes against all reason but I actually prefer the three rails to two.  Just one of those things.  BigRail

Yes, you have been brainwashed then...

 

That's fine. I'm not advocating getting rid of 3 rail. Just give the rest of us a choice. I recently picked up a Lionel Legacy 0-8-0 and it reminded me of everything I love about O scale trains. However, I hate the 3rd rail with a seething passion

 

I could be wrong but some time I recall speaking to a rep at Gargrave and he informed me that 2 rail track was always available and still is. It is just a tie without the cut for the center rail. As for switches that is another story. I converted a Ross double crossover to 2  rail and it was quite simple. Just turn the switch over and cut the metal strips with a Dremel to isolate the center track. If you ever want to convert them back to 3 rail just resolver them.

You are correct. You don't even need to modify Ross turnouts. If you call them they will make any of their turnouts in 2 rail. If you like the look of GG and Ross you can do that. I actually have a bunch of GG 2 rail flex. It just doesn't look realistic enough for me. Something like ScaleTrax without the center rail and better ties would be perfect IMHO.

Scaletrax has the right rail and right profile (for me)...low wood ties, correctly spaced

would be perfection....LOSING the means of connection!....does/did O scale two rail use those rail joiners as were  (are?) used in HO.  Way back in HO I remember none of the track compatibility issues we have in what is called a smaller segment of the market, where you would not expect to see so many manufacturers going off on

different tangents.  HO, and maybe O scale,  mate all the track with joiners; three

rail: cut, solder, and fabricate to make the stuff work!?  (not exactly the "out of the

box and under the tree" image of three rail)

I don't have a picture handy, but the ones I've seen posted online often are finished layouts with ballasted track.  The ballast "helps" give a seamless appearance.  If you look closely, you'll certainly see the difference though... but it's far from being a showstopper.

 

David

Has anyone ever tried to seriously disguise 3 rail tubular track. Paint the rails, add extra ties and use deep ballast to cover up the rail height ??  Would be fun to try to see what could be done.

My O-gauge interests tend towards mostly vintage Postwar stuff so I'm happy with the cheap old "traditional" 3-rail track. But I can see where it would be a challenge for modelers with more modern interests, since the newer 3-rail track systems are rather expensive and sometimes have availability issues.

Jim,

Yes, there have been many good examples of dressing up tubular track to look very hi-rail like.

There was just a "for sale" post of someone selling used cork ties for tubular track. He had some photos of his old track work and it looked splendid.

The rail height can't really be disguised without completely burying the ties altogether. 

027 track has more of a scale-like rail height but radius and switch compatibility are the hurdle.

 

To those interested in having a scale-appearing layout within the confines of 3 rail O the subject of using tubular track is ludicrous. Huge round tubes sticking out of ballast is not what is sought after!

 

Am surprised that RonH hasn't chimed in here with his custom built (by him) 2 rail track with a N gauge rail for the center. Works well and looks great!

 

Ross/Gargraves is a great system but as many have pointed out, it is out dated for many of us due to the oversized components. 2 rail Gargraves for the large scale trains is a viable option because the track is more closely sized for the larger trains - especially American prototypes in 1:29 and 1:32

MARC C,

 

Many of the Forum members understand your frustration, speaking as one so do I, what I have done is to read the comments posted by Forum members on issues/items that I may be interested in, these people have personal experiences that they share. Many of the Forum members in their personal profiles list e-mail addresses, I have in the past sent e-mails to them and most people did respond to my questions and likewise I have contacted Forum members with their issues with my personal e-mail and they contacted me for a response.

 

As for the track issue, I have only purchased from Gargraves, Ross and Tortouse switch motors from Circuitron. I have had no wait times nor negative comments on my personal contacts with these three vendors and would recommend them as sources for track, switches and switch motors.   

Just for grins I cut some 1/2 inch strips of cardboard, painted ties on them and laid them in between the rails. With the center rail colored to blend in, not too bad looking for a quickie.  Or you could put strips of cardboard in and glue a covering of ballast over it.  Look at the old photos and a lot of track was pretty well buried in ballast, cinders. mud and weeds.

C.Sam;

 

What was MTH's answer to you when you ask them the question about future product plans, production etc. regarding the track question?

 

Thanks.

 

Charlie

If you do a web search, there are people handlaying three rail O gauge track,the guy in question was using standard O gauge 2 rail rail (I think it was code 240?) and laying it on scale ties, and used something to blacken a rail for the third rail.

 

I played around with that a bit (since I don't have a layout at the moment), I actually took 027 track, and made a straight and curved section using ties I fabricated from wood I bought at a craft store that was approximately scale size. I kind of cheated, I connected the rails for the handlaid section to two pieces of tinplate 027 track (to maintain the proper gauge), then glued/spiked the ties to the rails. I used a brown hobby marker to color the rails rust brown, and did the ties the same way. This was a proof of concept, but it didn't look half bad given the shortcuts I took.

 

I have seen the handlaid 3 rail track, and it looked pretty sharp, they chemically blackened the third rail and the ties were laid at the right distance apart. I have toyed with the idea of laying my own track, using O gauge scale track and ties, the real key is in having jigs. Turnouts are a different story, I probably would find a way to mate it with gargraves or maybe Atlas switches (since the track is solid, the way scale rail is). I would argue that if you really want prototypical track, might take a lot less time to make your own, rather than wait for MTH or whoever to produce what you want.

 

As far as why three rail, that is the old story of beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not everyone is into full scale, some like the idea they can run modern equipment on the same layout they can run older, more traditional stuff, it all depends on point of view. The reason that Lionel and MTH don't offer more 2 rail or at all is they figure that they are in their niche (thought MTH obviously is offering flexibility) and that doing more in 2 rail makes no sense financially for them. Maybe the cost of making engines that can be converted, as MTH does, don't translate into a larger scale, but for whatever reasons, they have decided there isn't a reason to invest in 2 rail (obviously, Atlas has been in 2 rail longer than three rail, so is a major player there). 

 

I often wondered why the guys at Ross don't offer a more scale track, right now what they sell is basically the same as Gargraves, they might be the ideal player to come up with 3 rail scale like scale trax, it fits their business. 

 

I would hazard a guess that MTH while they technically support scale trax, probably sees it as a side light compared to the engine business, my instinct tells me the margin on track is probably not as high as with engines and rolling stock, so they don't exactly make it a priority, and when you are talking something that appeals to a smaller share fo the market, like scale trax, it is even less a concern for them.