Gargraves track

Well, in a sample of one, it's certainly way quieter for me!  My main surface is plywood and then Homasote, and the gargraves track is on 1/4" foam roadbed.  The difference from my previous Fastrack sitting on the Homasote is like night and day!

Never used fastrack but GG does not have the hollow roadbed.  GG on the appropriate surface is very quiet.  However if you do not provide the appropriate surface and screw it to bare plywood you will not be happy with the results.

The wood ties are a little quieter than the plastic ties.

I use Gargraves on cork, and I’ve  used Gargraves on foam roadbed.  It’s quiet. I am very satisfied.
johnA

I use gargraves on cork with pretty good results. I have a question though for those that are concerned about track noise. If you run engines with sound volume at max do you really hear any track noise? Jazzman, how far do you want to go with this. If you have a large investment in Fastrack you may want to stay with it. From what I’ve read on the forum Atlas solid rail is the most quiet but you’ll spend considerable money.

@romiller49 posted:

I have a question though for those that are concerned about track noise. If you run engines with sound volume at max do you really hear any track noise?

A solid yes on track noise!  Obviously, the better the base and roadbed, the less noise you'll hear.  However, get a 50 car train moving at 20-25 scale MPH, and you'll certainly hear track noise on most layouts.

I lied my GG track on 1/2 inch sound board and screwed the track down, with the screws just going into the sound board. After the glue for the ballast had dried I removed half of the screws.  I run TMCC with sound in most of my engines.  And I run the sound at 3/4 to full blast.

Thanks. GG is where I am headed. never been happy with FT and its lack of flexibility. Model trains are not the hobby to be in if you are worried about the money.

Hi Jazzmann,

Unfortunately, Lionel Fastrack, although convenient & attractive overall, may be the loudest of the systems going. This is due to the plastic roadbed which acts like a sounding chamber. I'm not knocking it, many people use & like it. As already mentioned, Atlas solid rail may be the quietest, followed by Gargraves & Ross, which are closer to tubular rail. Your base & roadbed are the key for quieter running with any system.

I can honestly attest through experience, Fastrack is considerably noisier. I always set up a 5x7 Xmas layout on a carpet over foam padding, post Xmas photo attached, with Atlas track, no roadbed. My first year of having 2 loops I used fastrack for the inner loop. It was easily TWICE as loud as the Atlas. Of course I was not using Gargraves but I still believe that would be considerably quieter. One more note, the noise level is all dependent on the speed you run your trains.

If you decide to switch, I have little doubt that you could sell what you have, since I believe Fastrack is fairly popular.

If you do a search for "Fastrack noise", on the forum, you will find a number of threads with comments & suggestions. I included one link below.

https://ogrforum.com/...-for-sound-dampening

Good luck & enjoy,

Joe

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

However, get a 50 car train moving at 20-25 scale MPH, and you'll certainly hear track noise on most layouts.

As you will with a real 50 car train at 20-25 mph!

We get a little weird about this noise thing - myself included. Don't like a lot, but a little is actually good. My next layout (don't hold your breath)  would be GG/Ross on 1" insulation board. The trick is good fastening standards without screws down into the wooden structure.

My current layout is GG/cork roadbed/plywood. Not too bad, and I don't do 150 mph trains; quieter would be better.

This 54 car tank train illustrates what can be achieved, I have no problem with this level of track noise.  I can clearly hear the engine sounds quite well all around the layout, and the cars passing don't drown that out.  This is my idea of a good level of track noise.

On my mainline I use GG track on foam roadbed, on 3/4" plywood. I stuff the track with stainless steel wire. The whole thing is so quiet it sucks ambient sound out of the room.

Hal

Gunner,  now THAT is a train!  You are going to need another yard just for the tank cars.

IME, train speed is the big difference in three rail running.  I run my three rail at a moderate speed, maybe a hair faster than GRJ's pipeline on wheels.  Up to that point 3 rail operating sound on GG is acceptable to me.   Solid rail is another big step towards quiet running.  I have mostly hollow GG and Ross plus a short segment of solid Atlas 3 rail.

2 rail is the supreme exercise in quiet running.  2 rail trains can sneak up on you.

I run both three rail and two rail literally all the time.  Both are very enjoyable.

Very, very quiet compared to Fast Track!  But it needs to be assembled properly, use foam roadbed and glue it down for best results. 

Gargraves much more quiet and realistic looking.  Have had no problems with it in 12 years.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

This 54 car tank train illustrates what can be achieved, I have no problem with this level of track noise.  I can clearly hear the engine sounds quite well all around the layout, and the cars passing don't drown that out.  This is my idea of a good level of track noise.

John, can you post a short video with the engine sounds turned off?  If it isn't too much trouble. The only reference I have is just to cars rolling and the occasional click of a rail joint on Atlas O track. I may be switching over to Gargraves and this is the only concern I have. Atlas is pretty quiet on homosote and foam bed, but your video gives me hope that Gargraves isn't that much different.

John,  As I sit here drinking my morning coffee before I drag into my day... I watched your 54 car above video.   Thank you, that made my morning!   Absolutely awesome!

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

John, can you post a short video with the engine sounds turned off?  If it isn't too much trouble. The only reference I have is just to cars rolling and the occasional click of a rail joint on Atlas O track. I may be switching over to Gargraves and this is the only concern I have. Atlas is pretty quiet on homosote and foam bed, but your video gives me hope that Gargraves isn't that much different.

Well, it is a little bit of trouble, I have removed them from the layout, so I'd have to dig them all out of the plastic tub they're in and rebuild the train. 

@Hp289 posted:

John,  As I sit here drinking my morning coffee before I drag into my day... I watched your 54 car above video.   Thank you, that made my morning!   Absolutely awesome!

Thanks, it was a neat consist, lots of variety in the cars.  I like tank cars, and I don't have to find loads for them to make them look good.

My Layout top is Plywood!  I am using Atlas Track (with wood ties) on Vinyl Roadbed !  Very quiet to be sure!!

Fredstrains

I was afraid my timing was off. No worries, I realized that if all I could hear was the engine on the other side of the room the cars closest to the camera couldn't be making much of a ruckus.

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

I was afraid my timing was off. No worries, I realized that if all I could hear was the engine on the other side of the room the cars closest to the camera couldn't be making much of a ruckus.

Yep, that ship has sailed.   As you say, the locomotive 20 feet away was clearly audible, and of the cars passing right in front of the camera it was hard to hear to hear any track noise.  Now, if I juiced it up to around 60 scale MPH, the cars would indeed make more noise.

FWIW, the elevated track on just plywood and foam roadbed is noisier, which is to be expected.  Not nearly as loud as Fastrack on the Homasote, but still considerably louder than the Gargraves on the Homasote.  When I get back from vacation, I'm going to order some sound deadening mat to apply to the underside of the elevated plywood sections and see if I can tame that a bit.  If I had it to do over, I might consider Homasote on the elevated section, but I'm not going back there either.  I'll see what the sound deadening mat will accomplish.

Just now have I have passed the half way mark in applying Dynamat Xtreme brand sound canceling mat to my wife's Toyota mini van.

Tremendous difference and the job is not even finished!  I tried shouting out to my neighbor but he could not hear me with all  five doors wide open.

I would suggest to use this product on the underside of loud table top drum heads.

I shopped the market, there are much less expensive brands out there but the sound attenuation is not as strong and many of the brand X's have a strong petroleum odor.

The principle in use is density.  It does not seem like much at first, less than 1/8" thick but the difference is absolutely profound.

If I had a loud right of way I would try Dynamat Xtreme on my layout but my layout is rather quiet as is.

I am thinking that it could maybe be used directly under the loud hollow plastic track bases??  You could cut it to fit then peel and stick it in place.

Dynamat!  Tom I could not remember the name of that stuff. Sometimes solves issues with speaker cabinets also.

Even though I've recommended this to a few people for the underside of the surface I have not tried it on a model railroad.  With homosote on the top the plywood doesn't get excited, now we're asking Dynamat to dampen an excited surface. I have confidence in the product but it will be interesting to hear the results of this different approach.

Wouldn't noise-cancelling headphones or earbuds be...at least in the long run...faster, cheaper, more adaptable, versatile, convenient way to 'quiet' your trains...and anyone anything else you're trying to be less distracted by??

Lots of great technology out there.  Becoming very price competitive, too.

If we all live long enough, maybe the hobby will get 'Mag-leved'...no steel-on-steel whatsoever for those infernally noisy trains.

Then there's those buzzing solenoid actuators...

No wonder some old pharts have a hobby enjoying the squeak-and-creak from a rocking chair on the porch of a cabin by a pond in Maine's north woods.    Of course, then there's that infernal buzzing of the B-29 mosquitos and B-24 flies!!

Anyone remember the Little Golden Book about Noises, and Mr. Flibberty-jib?  ...ah, yes....roast beef and warm woolen mittens.

Some of my contractor friends use DynaPad for floor silencing in rental units.  It is much more sophisticated than Homasote but multiple times more expensive.  I have only ever used Homasote for rental units.

DynaMat is for all metal auto surfaces with DynaPad intended to go over DynoMat.

I will be testing Homasote on top of the DynaMat before I go to DynaPad.  Big dollar difference.

You only think that Homasote is expensive.

@ironman1 posted:

Your base & roadbed are the key for quieter running with any system.

Much like carpeting, what's underneath makes all the difference.  Yes, Fastrack is inherently noisier.

My friend had Atlas track on 1/4" cork, but his bench work construction (which I have copied in my current layout) was solid but noisy.  I run GarGraves on Vinylbed or Flexxbed.  It's pretty quiet.

George

Noise cancel headphones won't help.   If you see the original discussion at the top.  It's the rest of the family (wife) who I"m trying to tame the noise down for.  My upstairs game room is an echo chamber to the downstairs living area.  Thanks for the tips guys.   I'll be experimenting with various methods.

When my wife comes down to ask me something I like to mute the engine and have a normal volume conversation. I don't want to mix up tube steak and sirloin steak.

Careful with headphones, especially noise cancelling. They do exactly that, cancel a noise by injecting a noise. You can feel your ears pressurize when you turn them on.

@Hp289 posted:

Noise cancel headphones won't help.  

Hopefully, that's just a bad joke.

There are entry level noise cancelling head phones and then there are well proven premium head phones.

In my experience sitting anywhere near the jet engines, cross country flights are so much more bearable with my Bose headphones.

On short hop prop connector flights there should be loaner headphones provided  the airline.  Those flights can be nasty loud.

Response to sound is rather subjective.

The whole "point", or perhaps the lack of a point with headphones is the issue. 

We spend a ton of money on trying to improve the sound systems of our trains (at least I do), and I want to hear that sound.  Since it's not possible to totally eliminate track noise, I'm not that concerned that my freight train won't have "realistic" track sounds as it passes, I just don't want it to sound like a 747 on it's takeoff roll!

I'm not the least bit interested in running around with my sound cancelling headphones on running my trains, that's a pretty ridiculous idea IMO!  It's just a bad joke...